Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are very clear distinctions between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the many other services that make up what we consider to be the internet today?

All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill, resources, hardware and service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc) offer network services, they are an NSP, the people that would for the organisation and provide the service, although may well be inclined and skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such they felt the best thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a core-competency in mailing list management.

It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the 44net service and if the person that volunteered their time, resources and effort into maintaining a now defunct mail-server now decides he no longer wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that what is considered an incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with a provider who offer those services.

I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that the callsign comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders to almost 'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be free indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not so much)... If you feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that someone volunteer their time, resources and effort in to hosting a mailman service.... you do it!

I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH or on one of the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is protected and secure, isn't succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the service has a reasonable level of availability and it's usage conforms to the many regulartory domains that exist across the world... Doing to for free, doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the opportunity to raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to read the above first.

Thats my 2-pence... ;)

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 10:40, Rob PE1CHL via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
>> --
>> Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network.
>> Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal
>> communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal"
>> services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
>>
> The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed, fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks.
> Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems.
> The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop without it going to my spam box".
> As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it.
> Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
>
>

Is that a concern with the existing mailing list?
My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and it had to be recovered.
And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it somewhere else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.

I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core business and we should not outsource it.
From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external service that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource software that you can host yourself. The latter could be an option to use.

But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution and that others do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net.
When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how we provide "emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.

Rob

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