23 Feb
2012
23 Feb
'12
1:23 a.m.
It is my belief that fixed IP addresses are only needed by services (e.g. a
web server, irc server, etc.), pretty much all mobile and most base
stations do not need fixed addresses.
Being able to address k7ve.ampr.org whether that mobile station is on LAN 1
or LAN 2 is much better than needing to know 44.24.1.10 and having all of
the individual routers keeping separate entries for routing to some sort of
proxy.
If the demarcation is that anything in 44.0.0.0/8 can address anything else
in the 44.0.0.0/8 address space, then sub-netting is a great solution and
DNS entries become optional. However, fixed "services" being accessed from
outside of 44.0.0.0/8 would still pass through the router (or routers) and
they can do a lookup to make sure there is a DNS entry, whether fixed or
dynamic.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 22:23, Jay Nugent <jjn(a)nuge.com> wrote:
Greetings,
Here in Michigan we once had (1990's) a significant number of mobile
Hams (truckers and salesman, etc.) that used the RSPF "Radio Shortest Path
First" protocol that is included in the JNOS software.
#undef RSPF 1 /* Include Radio Shortest Path First Protocol */
It worked much like what you describe below, except that each mobile was
assigned a fixed IP address (from a very specific subnet 44.102.0/24 - the
ZERO or MOBILE subnet for Michigan). Each JNOS node in the network 'knew'
how to route this subnet for any mobile users as they passed from node to
node to node as they drove along. The nodes would 'hand off' a mobile
units connection as s/he drove from cell to cell.
Don't ask me the specifics, as I never used this myself nor did I have
anything to do with the necessary JNOS configurations to support it. But
it worked REALLY well. I know one truck driver with a laptop stayed
connected as he drove from Port Huron to Toledo without ever losing his
connection (cringes at the thought of texting while driving an 18 wheeler -
at night!).
Might be worth investigating rather than re-inventing the wheel...
--- Jay Nugent WB8TKL
o Chair, ARRL Michigan Section "Digital Radio Group" (DRG)
[www.MI-DRG.org]
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012, K7VE - John wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 19:54, Brian Kantor <Brian(a)ucsd.edu> wrote:
<http://www.facebook.com/john.**d.hays<http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:19:31 -0800, David
Josephson WA6NMF <
wa6nmf(a)josephson.com> wrote:
I am puzzled that we want to assign 44-net addresses one by one as shown
in amprhosts rather than as subnets. Perhaps
there is a historical
reason for that. The routing table could get to be very large (we can
hope!)
Subnetting is reasonable to do but we still have to assign addresses in
those subnets one at a time in order to get DNS entries for them and to
enable them in the Internet ingress filter.
The division of the AMPRNet space into the existing blocks of addresses
was primarily for administrative convenience, not as a mandated
subnetting
scheme.
Subnets should probably track routers/gateways; that is, each
router/gateway should have a small subnet associated with it. That would
help to keep the routing table at a reasonable size. Since routers often
serve a specific geographical area, having regional subnets could be a
fairly
good way to assign addresses.
The hard question is what size region and what size subnet?
The implication is that there will be a router for each region, which is
what we've been doing in many places anyway. Perhaps major cities is a
reasonable way to divide an area into subnets. But there are also flat
networks which need only one router even though they span multiple
cities.
Ideas?
- Brian
Dynamic DNS to update amprgw's filter.
We only need the filter for ingress to Net44, we could use "Established"
and "Related" IPTABLES for egress.
DHCP for mobile users (those moving between access points).
We already have "region" subnets, e.g. 44.x.0.0/17 blocks already
allocated
to coordinators. That means the inter region routing tables can be
relatively small. Within the region subnetting and even sub-subnet can
performed based on local need.
I wrote this in late January and you see more comments in the thread
starting at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**STARnetDigital/message/209<http://groups…
One of the uses I foresee for STARnet Digital is for it to support "VPNs"
for D-STAR Digital Data. Currently, the D-STAR frame addresses one and
only one destination. The UR is either set to the gateway for NATing out
to the Internet, or it is set to the call of a remote system.
If the UR were to be set to STARnet Digital group, then each frame could
be
relayed back out to each terminal in the VPN/Group. This still needs to
be
tested and probably refined.
I think the Net-44 address space could be the unifying point for IP based
amateur communications. The NxN
text tables being distributed now to IPIP tunnel pockets of activity
doesn't scale well and uses a format designed around a specific
application. I have been thinking, instead we should build a network
around regional routers that each support one 44.x.x.x/16 address
space (44.0-255.x.x)
-- these could exist in a VPN (maybe LT2P) creating tunnels either to each
other or through 1 or more continental/country routers.
In turn, these 256 POP routers, would support up to 256+ local
networks (44.x.x.x/24),
which in turn could distribute out to progressively smaller and smaller
CIDR address spaces.
When AMPRNET was created, the available hardware was either severely
limited or financially unreachable for a hobby pursuit. Now a US$40
router
(http://routerboard.com/RB750 IPV4, IPV6, VPN, Tunnels, MPLS) can be
pressed into service to provide these services (
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/**Manual:License#License_Levels<http://wik…)
for any local
jump off point to RF (even to a mesh or PTP high speed microwave link).
The
core routers can be had in the US$350 range (
http://routerboard.com/RB1200**).
There are a number of hams that own or have access to high bandwidth
enabled data centers to house core and regional routers.
Additionally, with a little creativity we could build a special DHCP that
would examine the D-STAR, AX.25, or ??? frames to assign a Dynamic DNS
address to each station (assuming amateur-relay.net as the domain, could
be
ampr.org):
- In AX.25, if the source address was WF7R and the SSID was 2 then
Dynamic DNS records would be created:
- wf7r-2 IN A 44.24.73.2 ; Using wf7r-2.amateur-relay.net domain
name set IP to 44.24.73.2
- 2.73.24.44.in-addr.arpa. PTR wf7r-2.amateur-relay.net. ; Shows
wf7r-2.amateur-relay.net on hostname lookup of IP 44.24.73.2
- On D-STAR, if the mycall address was K7VE and the 8th character
(terminal ID) was C, then Dynamic DNS records would be created:
- k7ve-c IN A 44.24.88.230
- 230.88.24.44.in-addr.arpa PTR k7ve-c.amateur-relay.net.
Fixed stations and servers likely would have static IPs, but mobile
stations, say D-STAR DD units moving from repeater/access point to
repeater/access point could release and renew LAN IP addresses using DHCP.
A STARnet Digital server could be modified to include a DHCP lease block
for stations in the group/VPN, so mobile D-STAR stations would retain the
same DNS entries moving from one repeater/access point to another.
As the owner of the STARnetDigital Yahoo! forum, I invite anyone
interested
in this topic to reply to the thread there.
------------------------------
John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
<http://k7ve.org/blog>
<http://twitter.com/#!/john_**hays<http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>