Re: [44net] hardware vs. software

Hi Lynwood: I'll be more explicit. Assume that I log into BBS A using amateur radio to get my messages. Assume BBS A is connected to BBS B using an amateur-radio frequency. And assume BBS B has an internet connection and is configured to serve as a packet-to-email gateway. If some 3rd party sends me an email, the gateway on BBS B needs to automatically forward the message to BBS A so I will see it when I log into BBS A. That forwarding is not allowed to be over amateur frequencies. Therefore, anything communicating with 3rd parties needs its own Internet connection. In other words, every BBS that wants to receive email from non-hams needs its own Internet connection. This is basically what WL2K does at the RMS. So, I use an ISP where available. Or I put up my own microwave links. But if I put up my own links, I don't want to use stuff restricted to amateur-only, because it only restricts what I can do with the network. Specifically, it doesn't solve the problem of giving me a path over which to forward the 3rd party traffic. So I use the commercial/consumer OTS stuff. As I said, the FCC rules actually push me to NOT use amateur-type gear for any application that would be genuinely useful in the GHz+ range. And by genuinely useful, I mean I don't want to build something that will only allow me to talk to a few other hams (as in, literally, less than a half dozen) here in the south bay who might put up something in the GHz+ range. That's not useful. If I'm going to spend that time, effort, and money, it needs to be on something that is MORE useful that what's already out there commercially. Gatewaying email to packet is such an application because I can send and receive from literally anywhere in our county -- including places where non-hams can't, such as anywhere that commercial cell service or commercial WISP services are not available. That has fantastic implications for public service events like bike races, etc., and for emergency comms. Our city and county emergency managers love it that we can set up anywhere and still handle their official ICS forms. But if that communications involves 3rd parties, then only the last leg (between me and the BBS) can be over amateur radio because that's not automatic. I initiate that when I log into the BBS. And that last leg is typically VHF/UHF with omni antennas and usually not clear line of site. That's not a place where GHz+ stuff can be used. The BBS-to-BBS connections are between fixed locations and could benefit from the higher bandwidths in the higher bands. But for the reasons already mentioned, it's best if those links do NOT use amateur gear. That's what sucks. So, back to: why don't more people use amateur-only equipment on the higher bands for higher-bandwidth stuff? My answer is because I haven't come up with a genuinely useful application due to the restrictions of Part 97. M -----Original Message----- - regarding N6MEF's concern regarding 3rd party email communications, email is not an "automatically forwarded" technology; an amateur does not automatically receive that message through any technology governed by Part 97 (there are two exceptions I can imagine - if the amateur maintains his own email server at the receiving [client] end of the radio link or provides email as a service to non-amateurs) - I'm somewhat lost as to the concerns regarding inbound traffic, the problem only arises if the intent is to run infrastructure (i.e. services) over RF for non-amateur use, otherwise, the requests would initiate from an amateur station and would not be 3rd party - servers and devices on AMPR can be firewalled to only accept traffic from 44.0.0.0/8, in fact my DNS server (44.60.44.3) is configured to only resolve non AMPR IPs and domains for 44/8 traffic - if a non-amateur is reaching a 44/8, they MUST be using commodity Internet, if the services are on the gateway or on a device connected by wire or Part 15 device, that is not governed by Part 97 (Part 97 only governs Amateur RF) - I cannot find 97.109(e) - I'm not certain how 97.115 relates, except for 97.115(c) "(c) No station may transmit third party communications while being automatically controlled except a station transmitting a RTTY or data emission." Since it is a data emission, 3rd party communications can be transmitted - I'm not certain how 97.219 applies, given that email is not a message forwarding system for the 3rd party (email receipt must be initiated by the amateur, that communication is between the Amateur and their email server, not between the Amateur and the 3rd party) This is a good thread, and I'm still reading through, I hope I have not missed anything thus far. 73, Lynwood KB3VWG _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.html