44net

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3196 discussions

Online Authentication for Ham Sites and Services (was: USENET news on AMPRNet)
by Cory (NQ1E) 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

> A private, ham only OpenID server? This is similar to an idea I had several years back (2012 according to the registration for my unused domain hamauth.com), but I couldn't find anyone else at the time who was interested in it. As a result, it never won any battles for my limited availability of time to work on it. :( The basic idea was to define various assurance levels that people could meet using various methods. Then, allow amateur radio websites and services to define what level of assurance they need and allow them the option to easily authenticate their users using a hosted service (using things like OpenID or OAuth). Those levels could be something like: - Identity, call sign, operating privileges, and mailing address all verified - Call sign, operating privileges, and mailing address verified (LotW gets us here) - Call sign and operating privileges verified (We can verify their license is valid, but only assume they're the legitimate holder of it until it's challenged, somewhat like how qrz.com does it) - Call sign claimed (not all countries have license info online for verifying privileges) - Non-amateur (not yet licensed) For example, if a user can prove to us they have control over a valid LotW certificate, they would get one of the highest levels of assurance because we know the ARRL has already confirmed the validity of their license and that they can receive mail at the license address. The user would then be able to login with their call sign on just about any site that chooses to use our service for authentication. However, some sites may not choose to trust our third party service directly, so we could also be a resource on how they could setup their own authentication and verification schemes. While it might be a pain to get a LotW certificate, they are the only organization I'm aware of that offers to authenticate amateurs from any country. It's essentially a service they created to be globally trusted in order to protect the integrity of their contests. In the past they've also expressed a willingness to allow their service to be used for other general amateur authentication purposes, so I don't think we need to worry about them objecting to anything like this. Also, there's no reason why the ARRL has to be the only source of that trust. For example, if you have a valid client certificate loaded in your browser with your call sign in the right place, we'll accept it on the HamWAN portal ( https://encrypted.hamwan.org/ ) whether it's signed by ARRL, or of it's signed by HamWAN's own certificate authority. If there are other organizations in other countries that can authenticate licenses in an easier fashion, we can definitely include them in the process. They way other amateur services would just need to check a box that says they trust that entity to validate users from that country. I'm exceeded to see several others interested in this, but since it's off-topic for this reflector, please join me in the new hamauth group. ;) Click: https://groups.io/g/hamauth or Email: hamauth+subscribe(a)groups.io Cory NQ1E

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Beginner - looking to get started / advice
by devin davison 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

Hello, I posted here a while back but have not made much progress. I am a new Ham operator interested in packet and digital modes. I have a small home setup with a terminal node controller attached to a vt100 terminal, I have been using it to reach the only other 2 packet stations i was able to find in my area. I have an interest in tcp/ip and wanted to try and connect to the 44 network if possible. I have had trouble finding information and getting started. I have a big interest in using some big older ibm gear. I have found many programs that should get the job done, of interest is ka9q net nos. I have the hardware, the tnc, the computer, I am just uncertain of how to go about using the software. Im having a real hard time finding any local help on the subject. Ive tried no less than 3 of the local clubs, none seem to have any members that even know much about packet or tcp/ip over radio. Ive asked around on a couple of the local repeaters as well, asked some questions at the end of the weekly nets, only to find that there does not to be anyone around with much knowledge on the subject. I want to get started with this, i look to have all the hardware needed to get it working but need advice on how to proceed. Any help is much appreciated.

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Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
by Rob Janssen 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

> Why not use LOTW for authentication? > It's been done before and if you are LOTW verified it means that you are a radio amateur It has also been done before (ab)using Echolink for authentication. However they do not seem to like that, and probably rightly so. (it puts the burden of license validation on them) The same is probably true for LOTW when it would be heavily used outside its scope. Some services require some form of client certificate, others (like NNTP) are better off with a username/password. Both have to be catered for. A good project on AMPRNet would be to setup a user authentication system that can be used for our services without running the risk that some (ab)used party suddenly draws back the support, or delays validation of new applicants (if only due to lack of volunteers to do the validation). Rob

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Re: [44net] E-mail clients
by Rob Janssen 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

I don't use the e-mail client to "reply". I have set the list to digest mode, the daily digests I move to a separate folder that effectively is a trashcan, and I read the topics via the mailman archive site where I cut and paste parts into a new mail message every time. So no threads from me. I don't like mailing lists. At ALL. Precisely because thread management is so difficult, uninteresting threads cannot be killed, and traffic comes in between normal mail. I would propose setting up a small USENET server with one or a couple of groups and then use a newsreader to read and reply to the threads. But that is apparently considered old-fashioned as well by some, and newer methods are considered unacceptable. So, no change. Live with it. Make a processing rule in your mailclient that dumps the 44net mail in a separate folder, so your Inbox is left clean. Rob

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Re: [44net] E-mail clients
by Rob Janssen 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

> >/The problem is that many readers get the "Digest" version of this list, /> >/which means that they don't have any easy way to respond to a post from /> >/a digest, without breaking the threading info that needs to be included /> >/in the reply's headers. / > This is rather easy, and incumbent on the digest users. > 1. In your list preferences, "Get MIME or Plain Text Digests?" needs to be set > to MIME. > 2. In the digest now you will have a link to click on as a reply. The problem with that is the digest only arrives once per day, so you will be replying quite late and the whole discussion becomes very difficult to track when some people reply right away and others reply after receiving the digest. Rob

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DataRadio
by Lin Holcomb 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

So if he was not run off from all of the Social media vs email list stuff. Sherman W4ATL joined the list to answer any Data Radio questions. Sherman was the chief engineer at DR when I was there. His knowledge is going to be pre-cal amp take over. So any of the current off the shelf stuff is going to use proprietary information that I doubt Cal-Amp will publish. Even the older stuff uses proprietary code mmunitariona protocals, but the ability to hack these is likely as they are just Z80 processors. So Sherman if your still here and are willing to answer any questions go for it.... Lin N4YCI

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Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
by Josh 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

Applying for a LOTW cert is a rather painful and intrusive process outside of the USA. Josh -------- Original message -------- From: Ruben ON3RVH <on3rvh(a)on3rvh.be> Date: 15/09/2017 20:01 (GMT+10:00) To: AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet Why not use LOTW for authentication? It's been done before and if you are LOTW verified it means that you are a radio amateur 73, Ruben - ON3RVH -----Original Message----- From: 44Net [mailto:44net-bounces+on3rvh=on3rvh.be@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Janssen Sent: vrijdag 15 september 2017 11:43 To: 44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet > Don't solve a problem that doesn't exist. > Usenet access is readily and economically available. There are enough > providers that there are sites that review which is best. > Google for 'usenet providers' and see for yourself. The idea of course (at least I think) wasn't to provide generic usenet access on AMPRNet. Instead, it would be used for closed access discussion like this mailing list. Only a couple of hamradio related groups. Of course this immediately shows the practical problem: the authentication of valid users. You would need to maintain a table of users similar to what the mailing list now has, and when you want a couple of news servers around the world, you would want this access information to be somehow synchronized between them. Additionally, you may want some groups accessible to "any radio amateur". But then you run into the problem that has been encountered so often: how to authenticate a radio amateur without maintaining yet another user list where new applicants have to be validated by people who would prefer to do more valued work. Rob _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net

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Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
by Rob Janssen 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

> Don't solve a problem that doesn't exist. > Usenet access is readily and economically available. There are > enough providers that there are sites that review which is best. > Google for 'usenet providers' and see for yourself. The idea of course (at least I think) wasn't to provide generic usenet access on AMPRNet. Instead, it would be used for closed access discussion like this mailing list. Only a couple of hamradio related groups. Of course this immediately shows the practical problem: the authentication of valid users. You would need to maintain a table of users similar to what the mailing list now has, and when you want a couple of news servers around the world, you would want this access information to be somehow synchronized between them. Additionally, you may want some groups accessible to "any radio amateur". But then you run into the problem that has been encountered so often: how to authenticate a radio amateur without maintaining yet another user list where new applicants have to be validated by people who would prefer to do more valued work. Rob

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Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
by Rob Janssen 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

> If you're one of the very few people who have ever taken advantage of > the ability to read USENET news via AMPRNet and the news.ucsd.edu server, > you should be aware that that server is failing from old age and will be > taken out of service soon. We don't plan to replace it; Usenet itself > is fading away. I co-authored the NNTP protocol some 31 years ago; > that's a pretty good run for any internet standard. I wasn't aware that there was any special service from news.ucsd.edu towards AMPRNet... does it carry any special groups other than rec.radio.amateur.*? Fortunately my ISP still maintains USENET servers, two separate clusters even, one for what we used to use for news and another one dedicated to moving large blobs of gibberish :-) Indeed I see your name above RFC977! Great! I once maintained a CNEWS server for a company, which used a UUCP batch feed over a 9600 baud phone modem. The group list had to be trimmed all the time so it would not get behind so much it would never catch up, and the 200MB spool had to be carefully watched as well. Those were the days...

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Re: [44net] New Facebook Group
by Gabriel Medinas 15 Sep '17

15 Sep '17

Greetings, friends, allow me comment on this topic and after having seen all the comments, I would like to express too. Many of us who are already time in the Amprnet understand the rules to be followed by our great friend Brian Kantor as proyect lider who for many years now does much to keep the Amprnet 44 together with many contributions from many other colleagues. Gentlemen, the world has advanced a few years since IRC, Usenet, etc, we are in time to think that social platforms are now important or more than before, more powerful than the conventional ways of communication, and I think, that we should use for Amprnet chat in privately (private group). If the information is more confidential for any reason the social networks are not used, and exits now other routes that are used now. But Facebook, for example, would serve to us as a more "real" link between all the Coordinators and people with whom we can share general information of this activity of this tecnical HOBBY and sure may to grow in friends and should not be confused with our professional activities in this environment. In my case I would like to have contact via Facebook with Brian or any Regional Amprnet Coordinators and have a more relaxed arena to be able to speak general topics of our Hobby. 73 de Gabriel YV5KXE. Venezuela Amprnet Coordinator ---------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: New Facebook Group (Richard Chycoski) *************************************

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