44net

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3194 discussions

Re: [44net] 44net is not just for tunneling and more
by K7VE - John 04 Jun '12

04 Jun '12

*Disclosure* - I am affiliated with NW Digital Radio, but my comments here concerning features, design decisions, product direction, availability, price, or delivery are not guarantees, announcements, or binding upon the company unless specifically stated as such. Someone brought up the UDR56K-4 radio announced at Dayton Hamvention® a couple of weeks ago. So let me list some parameters and answer a couple of questions: - The model announced is specified as a half duplex radio, running 25W on 70cm band. - It has an integrated computer running a standard Linux server (Debian Squeeze) with additional drivers specific to the radio. - The software platform is open source and developers are free to create their own protocols and applications - Additional hardware and options can be added via USB or 10/100 Ethernet. - There will be a daughter card option to hold a vocoder (AMBE family card will be available from NW Digital Radio) - AX.25 and D-STAR network stacks are under development and test, supporting applications that use those network stacks. - Modulation choices include GMSK, FSK, 4FSK, and possibly one or two additional choices. The modulation is performed in a high integration RF IC which talks through a bus directly at digital logic levels (no analog/base-band layer) - The RF IC can accept up to 100 Kbps with bandwidth profiles based on modulation choice. The US regulations limit operation to 56 Kbaud and 100 KHz bandwidth. Higher bit rates that meet those requirements can be supported up to the 100 Kbps rate. The developer/operator is responsible for insuring data rate / modulation choice meet the regulations where the radio is deployed. Having addressed the basics relative to the radio. The idea is to have a platform to support multiple applications including AMPRnet. There is an interest in other common air interface (CAI) protocols for passing various data including Net-44 packets, we have at least one 3rd party developer who wants to add a low-overhead IP transport to the radio. Yahoo! Forum for discussions relative to the UDR are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalDigitalRadio One thing to remember is that for a given power one must choose between distance, reliability, and speed. For example, using 4FSK it may be possible to push the raw bit rate above 80 Kbps within 100 KHz, however it might be worth using a forward error correcting code reducing the effective rate back to 56 Kbps while reducing retries on a given path due to bit errors. I think that Net44 as a replacement for broadband service is not a goal that we should be seeking. In the wireless space there are plenty of consumer devices (Part 15 in the US) that can provide high-speed/local service, e.g. WiFi, or even point-to-point links on some paths. There are a lot of applications where repurposing consumer devices makes sense, e.g. HSMM on amateur bands, or very local mesh networks in urban areas. Conversely, there are many applications where longer haul, higher power, modest data rate service is a better choice and this is where Amateur Radio can fill a need. I agree we should work to multi-home Net-44 to the rest of the Internet, but I don't believe we should do this on a LAN level. I think at most it should be the 256 /16 subnets and probably many fewer than that. Local LANs can tunnel using newer tunneling protocols that can use a dynamic IP on at least one end of the tunnel to these BGP'ed routers (with fail-over between them for tunnels from LANs). There is no reason to use roll-your-own routers or protocols -- there are very capable routers with tunneling in the US$60 range that can get the connection over the Internet tunnel to the local LAN, then use our various RF interfaces (WiFi/HSMM, AX.25, DSTAR, ...) out to individual nodes. A did a presentation on this subject earlier this spring -- http://www.microhams.com/digitalconf2012/K7VE_N7IPB_RebootNET44.pdf ------------------------------ John D. Hays K7VE PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 <http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays> <http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>

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Re: [44net] 44net is not just for tunneling
by Ronny JJULIAN 04 Jun '12

04 Jun '12

Lin why don't you ake the lead fo Ga? Simply volunteer and I won't oppose. K4RJJ Ronny Sent from a cheap lil Android Tablet Lin Holcomb <lin(a)n4yci.com> wrote: >(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) >_______________________________________________ >> >> I am still in the holding pattern while ya'll work out things, but I share >> Ralphs frustration. I see tunneling as a project that uses 44net not the >> whole 44net project. It seems to me that this has been confused by many >> and sent the 44net down one road. We need some highways and not 2 lane >> dirt roads, sorry but 1200baud or even 9600 baud is a two land dirt road >> compaired to 10-300 meg connections I can offer I spoke to several groups >> at Dayton and there are many others who would love to have use of the IP >> addresses Dstar, highspeed packet ect. (not tunneling all thru UCSD) >> > > >> The inability to have routeabil addresses from the net back to the >> 44net( or the lack of desire do to the slow speeds) raises this question >> how is it that the current tunneling network would be different if the >> 44.x.x.x was replaced with a 10.x.x.x and the route point at UCSD was a >> 44.x.x.x ? Really what advantage does a non-routabile 44 have over a 10 >> with the way you are currently using the network? >> > > >> From perspective I see no difference....If I cant see a difference >> why would ICANN? Folks this is 1/255 off all of the ipv4 addresses in the >> world we are talking about. This is like 220 in the 80s use it or loose >> it. >> >> >Lin > >_________________________________________ >44Net mailing list >44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu >http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net

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Re: [44net] 44Net Digest, Vol 1, Issue 43
by Max Lock 04 Jun '12

04 Jun '12

Hi John, Thanks for the slides, Is there a video of the presentation available anywhere I think it'd make some good viewing. Rebooting the AMPRnet is whats needed, new products like the UDR56k are a great idea and I'd expect to see some poor mans clones of its functionality following in time. Thanks to the internet the general level of data comms knowledge has improved in the last 20 years, and a resurgence in interest seems to be occurring. Me personally, I've got internet burnout. :) As regards to tunnelling, I thought it was policy that to tunnel to /44 you need a static IP I read somewhere. Technically of course it's possible to tunnel to any accessable IP, I subscribe to a dynamic DNS service to track my VPN end points for example. -Cheers Max. G7UOZ. On Thu, 2012-05-31 at 12:00 -0700, 44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu wrote: > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:41:22 -0700 > From: K7VE - John <k7ve(a)k7ve.org> > To: AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu> > Subject: Re: [44net] Some newbie guidance. > Message-ID: > <CAN77r3xdL9DQv3XFH331PQ+YdBa2MaTu6PBnWq1ehCrvYcdYuA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Slides from a presentation I gave a couple of months ago > http://www.microhams.com/digitalconf2012/K7VE_N7IPB_RebootNET44.pdf > > Some of the tunneling protocols don't require a fixed IP -- I tunnel a /24 > network from a data center to my home (and also a portable subnet) using > L2TP. > > ------------------------------ > John D. Hays > K7VE > PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 > <http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays> > <http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>

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Some newbie guidance.
by Max Lock 30 May '12

30 May '12

Hi All, I'm interested in building a tcp packet network for my local town. Theres no packet activity here, apart from aprs. The local club are generally focused on competitions, but there is a local hackspace in it's infancy with a number of people interested in doing 'something cool' with packet. So, I've been in touch with the UK ampr co-ordinator, and am now administering our local /24. Given I have a clean slate what subnetting approaches have people found that work well, maybe subnets for different technologies dstar, ip over x25 packet etc. In the UK I understand there's essentially no routing, but have read about routing being used in the US, what are the reasons? I don't currently have a fixed IP, so am currently unable to provide 44 net access to the rest of the world unless I can come up with something clever, or a fixed IP. Has anyone successfully implemented a workaround, maybe an ip tunnel from another host with a fixed ip? If anyone has any documents on any aspects of ampr network design, or links I'd be very interested in taking a look. I want to get as much right first time as possible. -Cheers Max G7UOZ

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Help please
by Jerry 30 May '12

30 May '12

Hello. Does anyone have a working JNOS2 autoexec.nos. running under linux RedHat Fedora 4 Looking for the following minimum. 1 RF port com 1 1 Ethernet lan port Converse server Net 44 access. I would like to use it as a reference and or modify for my use.. Many Thanks Jerry

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44 AMPR email list issues..
by David Ranch 30 May '12

30 May '12

Hello Everyone, I noticed two things today when trying to invite a prospective packet user into the AMPR group: 1. The mailmail list manager at http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net isn't responding 2. It seems the http://wiki.ampr-gateways.org/index.php?title=AMPRnet_contacts still points users to 44Net-owner(a)cows.net --David

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Unsuscribe
by Joshua Fuller 29 May '12

29 May '12

Sorry if this hits the list

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Building block for rebuild of AMPRNET
by John D. Hays 26 May '12

26 May '12

A new digital radio was announced at Dayton - http://nwdigitalradio.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalDigitalRadio ------------------------------ John D. Hays K7VE PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 <http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays> <http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>

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Re: [44net] Network map of active AMPR stations -- Packet "proxy arp" in Linux and/or JNOS?
by Kutche, Jerry (Mitchell) USA 24 May '12

24 May '12

Many thanks.. I bet you are correct.. I will see if I can fix it on my end.. Have a nice day... Jerry

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Network map of active AMPR stations -- Packet "proxy arp" in Linux and/or JNOS?
by David Ranch 24 May '12

24 May '12

Hello AMPR folk, I'm curious if there is an map of *active* geo-ip located AMPR stations out there? Ideally, I'm thinking of something like the various CONVERSE maps out there .. for example: http://www.wwconvers.ampr.org/ . The Michagan AMPR people do have a live monitoring system but it's text based: http://server1.nuge.com/~drg/network.html and I'm specifically looking for a Northern California map. Maybe there is something like an MRTG system that actively probes these systems from say the AMPR hub in San Diego? I'm also curious if anyone has ever heard of the following: I'm going on a vacation this summer where I know there isn't any reachable packet systems (both APRS or known packet systems) due to the mountain terrain. I know because I was there last year and though I could hear very faint packet stations, nothing could be decoded. What *is* available here is the commercial cell network and what I was thinking was tethering my Linux machine to the cell IP network and running an AXIP/AXUDP tunnel to re-link into the fairly extensive 145.050 KB2KB packet network: http://varmintal.com/ahamp.htm . I don't think this would be too difficult but what I'm trying to figure out is if it's possible to have my Linux machine send beacons, netrom updates, etc. from my machine via a tunnel to a remote AMPR station (proxy arp if you will) and then have all those AX.25 packets broadcasted on RF from there. There are a few Northern Califnornia Linux-based stations I know of that are on AMPR with JNOS that might be willing to try something like this but I wanted to run it by the group to see if it's been done / impossible / etc. --David

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