>>>/AMPRNet / HamNet routing is quite complicated for a non-IT guy... /
>>/The advantage of using BGP even in this trivial case is... /
>I don't think the most important question is about selling BGP or any
>particular technology (I'm well versed in internetwork engineering and
>worked in that field professionally for many years; I'm in academia
>now).
>I'm writing this because education was a specific question in the
>survey.
>The reason that we have amateur radio is to enable experimentation with
>using the radio spectrum in a way that is otherwise not permitted or
>practical. With the Internet, there are certain things that are only
>possible to experiment with if you have your own addresses and other
>network numbers. AMPRNet is (perhaps that's too strong, and we could
>say, "can be") a way of enabling a kind of experimentation on the
>Internet similar to what we do with the radio spectrum.
It is not clear to me what you are getting at here! These are different
layers of the cake. Your radio experimentation will result in some way
to transport bits from A to B, but not in a network. To build a network
you need another layer, and a way to define what you need to send where
to get your message to the destination. That is what BGP is handling.
By using BGP instead of static routing, we can connect many radio links
and other links together and make a network out of it without getting
buried in manual routing chores.
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I am mentioning here
has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all the internet
networks. It is the same protocol, but they are different use cases.
Don't get confused when people say they have their AMPRnet subnet BGP
routed to them on internet, and other people propose to use BGP internal
to the AMPRnet network to route things the correct way, these are two
different things.
Rob
> - AMPRNet / HamNet routing is quite complicated for a non-IT guy. BGP
requires huge equipment and skills. IPIP requires hacking protocol
redirect on Internet boxes. Those are not easy things for people
operating a voice repeater or hotspot. They just build a Pi image, plug
the machine, and it works. Why should they bother with complex addressing ?
We have quite some repeaters that are connected via AMPRnet.
We normally use MikroTik routers. I do not consider these "huge
equipment" and they are not difficult to configure with BGP.
I have some example configs for setting up an endpoint with L2TP/IPsec
tunnel to our gateway router and using BGP to advertise their own subnet.
This is much easier to get going than IPIP, for example there is no need
to touch the existing internet router (open ports/protocols not required).
This even makes it suitable for installation on buildings where the
owner may make available some guest internet access but would not want
you to tweak their network to pass IPIP.
The advantage of using BGP even in this trivial case is that the network
can now be extended when the opportunity arises without having another
hurdle of complexity.
A WiFi link to another station can be added, e.g. in some cases people
have an internet connection at an amateur nearby the repeater, and then
a WiFi link to the repeater itself.
I would be all for rolling out such a system worldwide to replace the
IPIP mesh.
Routers (e.g. MikroTik CHR that can run as a VPS) in datacenters all
over the world interconnected with a static tunnel mesh and offering VPN
service for local amateurs to connect, and routing using BGP on private
AS (this only routes AMPRnet, not full internet).
In different places those routers could have the AMPRnet subnet(s) for
that region announced on internet, like we do for 44.137.0.0/16 and
others do for other country networks.
And each of those can offer different VPN technologies so you are able
to follow the trend of the day without having to do a migration in the
entire network.
Rob PE1CHL
Good evening,
it's been a while since I had to add/change/delete DNS entries in the ampr.org DNS zone. The email robot I've used in the past seems to have gone. Could someone please point me into the right direction how this is done nowadays?
vy 73 de Marc, LX1DUC
39th Annual ARRL / TAPR Digital Communications Conference (DCC)
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Mike,
DD-WRT is not known to provide a method to compile/install the necessary software (i.e. a RIP44 routing daemon). Aside from this, I cannot recall if a tunnel can be established. Nonetheless, if you were to succeed standing up a tunnel, you'd need the routing daemon to properly configure your reply traffic. This routing daemon concern may be overcome by employing a Munge Script (hopefully DD-WRT has some tools like: `curl`, `ftp`, `grep`, `fgrep`, `sed`, `sort` and `diff` installed in the firmware).
https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Munge_script
You can start testing using commands from the startampr, OpenWrt, Ubuntu and/or Linux setup guides on the Wiki. Feel free to ask any questions (when you can stand up a tunnel). I've never used the Munge Script method, I'm sure others have (I should note that there's a script posted that can parse the encap.txt file - it's located on the Firewall page). The `ip tunnel` commands in `startampr` should be of help to test establishing the tunnel.
https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Startampr#Script
---
- Prior to using OpenWrt, I personally forwarded IPENCAP (IP Protocol No. 4) to a gateway running Ubuntu Server. - https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Firewalls#DD-WRT
- Also see "Static IPENCAP Filtering of AMPR Nodes" here: https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Firewalls#iptables
73,
- Lynwood
KB3VWG
Does anyone know how to set up an AMPRnet gateway on a router with DDWRT? I don't want to use OPENWRT based on previous experience.
Thanks,
Mike, AA9VI
All,
First, welcome to the new Director and thanks for the work Chris!
I wanted to inform those with OpenWrt-based nodes that version 19.07.4 should fix an MSS clamping bug that was reported to the developers. Some of you that setup OpenWrt routers have noted to me that MSS seemed problematic in one direction. I've worked around this with other OpenWrt operators by placing MSS clamping on the LAN as well as the tunnel-facing sides of the OpenWrt config. Hopefully 19.07.4 fixes the need for this.
https://openwrt.org/releases/19.07/notes-19.07.4#major_bug_fixes
73,
- Lynwood
KB3VWG
Since I get questions about how to use the current kernels for axip or
axudp tunnel setups, here is my solution for this, using socat:
Here is an example for an axip tunnel.
First, create a transparent pty pair, lets say axip an kip located in
/var/ax25 (names and locations can be chosen freely):
/usr/bin/socat pty,link=/var/ax25/axip,raw,echo=0
pty,link=/var/ax25/kip,raw,echo=0 &
Next, attach the kernel side to one end and create a ax25 port let say
'aprs' with address 44.128.1.1 and netmask /32:
/usr/bin/kissattach -l /var/ax25/kip aprs 44.128.1.1
ifconfig ax0 netmask 255.255.255.255 (ax0 is the first port created by
kissattach)
Also, configure port 'aprs' in the ax25 daemon and start it...
/usr/sbin/ax25d
The other end needs to be configured in the ax25ipd daemon config file
to use the other end provided by socat:
mode tnc
(...)
device /var/ax25/axip
(...)
route n0call 44.128.2.3. b
(...)
I think this will help,
Marius, YO2LOJ
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2020, Phil Karn wrote:
> On 8/27/20 5:12 AM, Paul Sladen wrote:
Hello Phil,
> point is taken.
Excellent. Glad that was useful; hopefully the rest is useful too.
> > * page 2,
> > http://rct.doj.ca.gov/Verification/Web/Download.aspx?saveas=Founding+Docume…
> This document is out of date.
> ...
> As you can see, the purposes of the foundation were broadened ...
QED. Metamorphosis has occurred; and further metamorphosis is
planned in 2021:
https://www.ampr.org/amprnet/
] (Now that we are receiving significant investment income from our
] address sale, in 2021 we will transition to a private grant-making
] foundation required to disburse at least 5% of our total assets each
] year, on average.)
(Please be very, Very, careful with the wording "total assets"...)
...However, the founding document from 2011 is still /the/ founding
document, which enabled charitable incorporation, and immutable, and
so still to remind incoming employees/trustees of (p.5):
] All assets of this corporation are irrevocably dedicated to public
] and charitable purposes and no part of the net income or assets of
] this corporation shall ever inure to the benefit of any director,
] officer or member thereof or to the benefit of any private person.
Which brings us back to the "assets of this corporation";
> > (ADRC is custodian of US$0.25+ Billion in tangible +non-tangibles).
> We will be able to talk about the actual numbers as soon as ...
Tangible numbers are unncessary for discussion of the quarter-billion,
which is obtainable purely from remaining intangibles (unsold IPs):
* US$0.25+ Billion == nominal book value of the remaining IPs
(intangible assets) held by ADRC: ($20 * ~12.58 million)
...accounting for retained IPs in the "total assets" appears to be a
necessary condition, to have allowed made the declaration that the
sale of ~25% of total assets was "insubstantial". (p.1):
https://www.ampr.org/wp-content/uploads/Courtesy-Notice-to-AG-Signed-ARDC.p…
] the Sale represents only about one-quarter of ARDC's IP Addresses
] and is therefore not a sale of substantially all of ARDC's
] assets.
and thusly fall under the s.5913 non-prior-notification exception:
] Accordingly, advance written notice of this Sale was not
] required under California Nonprofit Public Benefit Corporation Law
] Section 5913.
So putting together (1) the 5% disbursement plans for 2021, and (2)
the necessity to account for "total assets" to claim the non-prior
notification in 2019, ...:
There would shortfall after 5 years, because... disbursing 5% of ~0.3
billion total assets (tangible + intangible) = US$15 million/year
outgoing (cash); against investment income of say ~10% of that.
Result would be ARDC, Inc. returning to being non-liquid c.2025,
...necessitating a further sale of AMPRNet IPv4 addresses.
> Until then we are not contractually allowed to disclose
But, the Trustees would presumably be completely free to give an
update on the planned relationship with CAIDA (UCSD Network
Telescope), and long-term sustainable plans for AmprGW?
-Paul
TL;DR: Be very, Very careful of the 5% total assets idea.
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