I tend to agree with Danny here. I have a networking background in the wireless LAN world and was thrilled to find out that there was some public IP's set aside for hams as we all are wireless geeks one way or another. I thought it would be great to experiment around wireless mesh since we have RouterOS, HamWan, OpenWRT, and such. Before last night, I didn't even realize that someone was hosting a VPN server to traverse the commodity internet so that I could portal to the 44 space. I just wish that there was more documentation to newcomers like me, so that other gen-x'ers might want to play around too.
So I agree, but let's remember that the network is for experimenting. If everyone knew everything about networking, then no one would even want to mess with the 44. Maybe someday it could be updated to include routing protocols like BGP and OSPF, like normal networks use. RIPv2 is pretty old, and very limited. No one wants to play with that. But, I can see why we have to use it as the 44's link to the internet is probably 1 Gig or less.
So, besides my early morning rambling, here are some questions from a newcomer's perspective: 1. How do I use the 44 net? 2. What equipment do I need to get started? 3. How do I route my IP range from my house to California without asking Comcast to advertise my IP's? 4. Besides Linux programs, what types of programs are out there for normal hams to use on PC's? 5. Why is there generally only an EMCOMM use case for the 44 net?
I'd like to experiment with the 44 net and I probably will. Maybe we should all come together and make suggestions on ways to modernize the 44 net.
Matthew L. Bonadies Campus Network Operations Wireless Networks Indiana University - Bloomington mbonadie@iu.edu (812) 855-2422
-----Original Message----- From: 44net-bounces+mbonadie=iu.edu@hamradio.ucsd.edu [mailto:44net-bounces+mbonadie=iu.edu@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Danny Messano Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 9:56 PM To: AMPRNet working group Subject: Re: [44net] 44net problems - was: 44net cool toys
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ I've been little more than an observer for some time, but I must say ALL the points in this e-mail are right on. I began thinking about 44 almost 5 years ago, and to reiterate a few points made:
1. Coordination at first seemed almost impossible. I was told by a few other hams, "Good luck getting an address. 44-net is dead". I sent a number of emails over a span of 2 years before I got the attention of who I believe is the most recent coordinator for my area. I was greeted with a "You DO know that a /24 is 253 routable IPs?" After 3+ years of trying to get anything, I asked for a sizeable segment that I could break up and route as needed. I didn't want to wait 3 years for every /29 I needed for a new project. I'm sure the portal has made things easier, but with all the space available, why the grief over a /24? I didn't ask for a networking lecture, I know what a /24 is..
2. Some of my experience with even getting addresses coordinated, along with what Steve pointed out in the Terms and Conditions, as well as the overall complexity, I haven't found 44 to be very welcoming. If a club posts their repeater rules, and they consist of "Feel free to use the repeater. The tone is unpublished... you'll need to figure it out, here's a list of 20 things NOT to do, oh, and we're watching you!", I am probably not going to use the repeater.
I have a strong networking background, and I am far from being an appliance operator, but it's hard to make a pizza if you've never seen one, the recipes are so vastly different that the concepts aren't clear, and it almost appears intentional.
Danny
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Steve Wright stevewrightnz@gmail.comwrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Ok here's my opinion.
Technically, it's difficult for prospective members to connect a 44 subnet of any type, using any method. It is not clear at all how this is ACTUALLY done or what options are available.
The wiki should be the authoritative document, but ;
1.) The main page is all about how to edit the wiki and a logo competition, and ONE LINE on how to set up a gateway - which the whole reason people went to the wiki.
2.) The "Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux" wiki page has a broken link leading to "common instructions for setting up a gateway", inviting newcomers to consider that there ARE NO such instructions, at which point they'll probably completely give up.
3.) The three main options, munge script, rip44d.pl and rip44.c are not stated clearly, nor are there links to any such subsection, nor are these options grouped from the users' perspective - namely their chosen platform, be it JNOS, x86 Linux, OpenWRT, or METARouter.
4.) There's no real index to what people are actually DOING over the 44net, and people ARE DOING some cool stuff. If there were some page in the wiki where people shared what they were making, then others might duplicate their efforts.
Sysadmins on the portal are reluctant to issue /24s, when there's lots and lots available.
The portals' "Law and Jurisdiction" section in the terms and conditions insults the user. Most of the rest of that section is pretty unsavoury too.
WISPs and others who want to peer don't have access to any toolkit or support.
Some stuff in the portal doesn't (or didn't) work, and it's not clear which.
There's not really an apparent reason WHY newcomers might even WANT to number a network with 44. It's simpler to just throw a DHCP server at an interface and add some routing - easy peasy, why number the network with 44, and if they did - HOW to do that?
It's not really clear to network builders, that they can actually number up with 44 right now, and worry about connecting to other 44/xx Networks later when they're ready. If they want to expose several 44/24's to the wild internet, then that doesn't really affect anyone else but themselves.
All this tunnelling really is an unstable mess. Apart from allowing the wild internet to connect inbound, why not just route the whole thing?
HTH, Steve
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