28 Jul
2021
28 Jul
'21
7:54 p.m.
On 28 Jul 2021, at 13:11, Tony Langdon via 44Net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 28/7/21 8:39 pm, Antonios Chariton (daknob) via 44Net wrote:
Thanks, that's better. I have Reply List back. :) I can still
reply
privately, if I wish (Reply by default on this list replies to the
sender, not the list).
Yes, it will be difficult, and there are some hotspots for some people that
single-handedly manage a lot of addresses, but if there’s anything we can do, we’re happy
to help.
Arrrgh,
your use of Reply All and not deleting the direct email disabled
my Reply List function, it seems. :(
Sorry, I just hit “Reply” now so it won’t
happen again. I understand that a renumbering is not painless.
But at least we are here to help to make it as painless as possible. I wish we could do
something better. Germany had to renumber more than 8,000 hosts recently and it’s not
something that we want anyone to go through often.
I'm not sure what you can
do, because I still have to do all of the leg
work. Sure, we can allow long crossover times, but that raises the
issue of managing 400-500 IPs, and there's still a number of time
critical changeovers that have to happen. We aim to make
this change a long-term decision: we do not plan on changing the use case again. However,
keep in mind that the TAC members have an one year term. Ours expires in about 7 months.
It may be different people next year with different opinions, but we hope that the Board
will agree to the “at least 5 years” that we proposed.
That would help, if there
was 5 years of guaranteed stability. There are some
technical solutions (like netmap that I mentioned in a previous e-mail) that can help you
be available on the new space from day 1, and then give you enough time to renumber the
hosts while both IP addresses work at the same time. As I said earlier, we plan to give
time to people, and we hope that it will be something that will happen only once. We are
also all available here, in this mailing list, to share our experiences and help each
other. I am sure that Germany has plenty of that to share with us as the unofficial 44 Net
champions of renumbering :)
netmap sounds interesting, but where does that run? My
VPS is also
fairly old, so installing new software can get tricky. However, I will
have to be careful not to confuse the various services and systems that
I'm running. Some things are rather IP sensitive. I have no idea how
they'll handle netmap. We are all in
this together, and I would like to think that we are all working towards a common goal.
Renumbering is something that we have to do, but the benefits of doing so will probably
outweigh the cost, especially in the long term. The ARDC Board typically sets the
direction for many years to come, and not for short periods of time that then get changed
frequently.
Yeah, see what the Board says.
Seems the
provider Echolink uses is near the longer end of that range. :(
Yes, this is
something that causes issues for network operators globally.. Just have a look at NANOG
and all the geolocation problems they have weeks after the acquisition of new space. But
Echolink is an amateur radio software, so I am confident that we could talk to the
maintainers and be able to work out a solution, because of the changes that we do in a
large scale. In the worst case that this isn’t possible, I think the 3 month period is
definitely a reasonable time to wait for, if not more.
Don’t worry, we propose these changes to enable people, not to break their use case and
cause them problems. I can see why you're doing this, and on paper,
it's a good idea.
Ironically, for me, the IPIP tunneled space on my LAN would be easier to
renumber!
Then start from that :) Let’s all take easy small steps first for quick
wins, and move to the more complicated ones after we determined a path and found a
solution. I can’t say I
am familiar with that personally, but I would start a thread on the mailing list to figure
out what other people did. Probably Germany had at least a D-STAR Reflector and an
Echolink Proxy and they can provide some insight on how they did this. Alternatively, we
can all figure out a path to do this together. You’re not alone! Collectively it should be
easier!
Don't know if the Germans were running any of that type of
infrastructure. I know some other IRLP reflectors use 44.x space
(though I'm the only one in 44.190/16), and I believe the IRLP VPN
service does as well.