What would this mean for the existing tunnel mesh?  Today, with the existing full mesh of tunnels, there is no single point of failure between any gateway and any other.  Surely you're not suggesting the introduction of multiple, regional single points of failure.  Or are you? Michael N6MEF Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: K7VE - John <k7ve(a)k7ve.org> Date:04/24/2014 11:07 PM (GMT-08:00) To: AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: [44net] What is 44net? (Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Don, You are missing the whole point - Not everyone needs to run BGP, or have a datacenter, they just need to find a border node who does and VPN/Tunnel to it. It's called cooperation. Those who can provide a BGP border node, can 'advertise' through this list or portal.ampr.org that fact and how to get setup to tunnel/VPN to them.  Like I said some of these routers have 'unlimited' support for VPN/Tunnel clients.  You can also tier this architecture.  A single border router might be supporting 20 /16 VPNs/Tunnels to tier 2 routers, those routers might support 30 smaller subnets and so on --- There are some peering points that are relatively inexpensive (or free) and some individuals are in a position to be generous.  This is no different than the FM repeater operator who pays for a site, equipment, and power costs to benefit a community of users, who may or may not make donations to that cost. Right now the total traffic on 44net could probably ride on a single home broadband connection. http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Interface/Gre The VPNs can be full up using available protocols   MikroTik runs a variety of VPN protocols PPTP, L2TP, IPIP, ...  Cisco has DMVPN -- you just have to find a common one between two routers. I run my personal /24 (non-44net) over a VPN   24x7 and have several hosts, including D-STAR gateways running over it. http://www.seattleix.net/rules.htm ________________________________ John D. Hays K7VE PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net