Greetings,
I have been a ham for over 50 years (though not recently active), and have been involved with networks for about 20, so I am following the recent discussions with great interest.
While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?"
Thanks, and 73,
Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK
Hi Lynn,
Good question and it is really one that need answer. But as it is obvious for most of the vocal people that talks here it is rarely being discussed.
In a few words the net for 44 net is what ever things that can be done over an ethernet or tcp/ip connection and even more. The sky is trully the limit, ( and the only thing that can lower the goal is the effective bandwith available. Just like your home network connected to your internet service provider. When you connect to the 44 net either by Tunel or other mean(like a radio link) you are really connecting to a simple network that ahve limit of speed but it can be used as any other network. You can share files, email,voice communication (VOIP) or videoconferencing. You could be the one providing a small web server with info you want to share to ham only or to the whole world. You could share a SDR radio or anyother things like that as you want. The main thing about net44 is that it open a network with out the normal barrier that ISP give. You can have a FIXED IP address, there is no tcp/ip port blocked at the ISP level and you can have a single IP to a bunch like 255 (a /24) if you can provide the reason for. You can learn new stuff about networking and you can start your own small 5.8ghz ham network to start using those frequency so we dont loose them. Same for 2.3 ghz. You could be on a HAM only part of the network. Where anyone on that part of the net is a confirmed ham. Or you could also be on a part of the net where you can access the whole internet and back. And could even be on both part of the 44 net if that is your wish.
Want a web server, an ftp server, a mail server, a small DNS server ( to learn how DNS work in the big world without breaking anything) name it! your imagination is the only limit ( with budget, time, money, availability of the software and wife accord for more time spent in the shack ;-) )
Is that answering your question? Come back to us if you think of other point you are not sure.
Pierre VE2PF
________________________________________ De : 44Net 44net-bounces+petem001=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org de la part de Lynn Grant via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 10 août 2021 16:58 À : 44net General Discussion Cc : Lynn Grant Objet : [44net] Use cases
Greetings,
I have been a ham for over 50 years (though not recently active), and have been involved with networks for about 20, so I am following the recent discussions with great interest.
While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?"
Thanks, and 73,
Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
Use case: IRLP repeaters, VoIP linking.
44.127.48.0/20 BGP routed with the help of Vultr.com
All IRLP repeaters must have an accessible Public IP address. It is becoming more difficult to get a public IP (or more than one) from local ISPs, especially if you are using a cellular connection to the Internet. We run a customized implementation of OpenVPN using TCP based tunnels that provides a single address (/32) to each connected client node. The service is free.
To manage the users, I use PiVPN (see pivpn.io), which is a very cool tool. PiVPN was developed using a Raspberry Pi, but it works on any Debian, including a VPS from Vultr. PiVPN can mange OpenVPN or wireguard. I chose OpenVPN because it supports TCP based tunnels, wireguard only runs using UDP.
With vultr.com, you must run an BGP routing daemon to a local router (which might sound intimidating, but is pretty simple if you follow Vultr's docs), which then advertises that network out the selected data center. I can slice and dice the /20 into into pieces as small as a /24 from any of Vultr’s 18 data centers around the world.
Right now I am advertising a /23 from Chicago, and a /24 from Sydney. We are planning to add service from Vultr's Seattle DC soon, followed by Dallas. But no time frame is set for that. Right now we have roughly 250 OpenVPN tunnels provisioned.
I am paying US$6/mo for each of the servers, which gives me a 3.7, GHz single CPU VM with a 10 gigabit interface. They do not charge a fee for the BGP routing.
If you want to check its performance, try pinging Chicago 44.127.48.1 and Sydney 44.127.63.1.
As long as we stay with Vultr.com, I can light up any portion of the /20 in any of their data centers. So far Vultr has been awesome, I do not expect to change anything.
There are more than fifty 44.0 subnets that Vultr.com is routing for somebody.
-Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 15:58, Lynn Grant via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Greetings, While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?" Thanks, and 73, Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can’t do port forwarding. -Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 4:03 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Use case: IRLP repeaters, VoIP linking.
44.127.48.0/20 BGP routed with the help of Vultr.com
All IRLP repeaters must have an accessible Public IP address. It is becoming more difficult to get a public IP (or more than one) from local ISPs, especially if you are using a cellular connection to the Internet. We run a customized implementation of OpenVPN using TCP based tunnels that provides a single address (/32) to each connected client node. The service is free.
To manage the users, I use PiVPN (see pivpn.io), which is a very cool tool. PiVPN was developed using a Raspberry Pi, but it works on any Debian, including a VPS from Vultr. PiVPN can mange OpenVPN or wireguard. I chose OpenVPN because it supports TCP based tunnels, wireguard only runs using UDP.
With vultr.com, you must run an BGP routing daemon to a local router (which might sound intimidating, but is pretty simple if you follow Vultr's docs), which then advertises that network out the selected data center. I can slice and dice the /20 into into pieces as small as a /24 from any of Vultr’s 18 data centers around the world.
Right now I am advertising a /23 from Chicago, and a /24 from Sydney. We are planning to add service from Vultr's Seattle DC soon, followed by Dallas. But no time frame is set for that. Right now we have roughly 250 OpenVPN tunnels provisioned.
I am paying US$6/mo for each of the servers, which gives me a 3.7, GHz single CPU VM with a 10 gigabit interface. They do not charge a fee for the BGP routing.
If you want to check its performance, try pinging Chicago 44.127.48.1 and Sydney 44.127.63.1.
As long as we stay with Vultr.com, I can light up any portion of the /20 in any of their data centers. So far Vultr has been awesome, I do not expect to change anything.
There are more than fifty 44.0 subnets that Vultr.com is routing for somebody.
-Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 15:58, Lynn Grant via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Greetings, While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?" Thanks, and 73, Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
I do have a /30 allocation. That’s too small for BGP announcement. I don’t think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:39 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
-- Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 19:21, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can’t do port forwarding. -Kun
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
my suggestion is that if you need less than a /24 as required for bgp would be to coordinate with someone who has setup a bgp announced larger netblock and see if they will offer you a subnet of their block via vpn.
Eric
Af6EP
On 2021-08-10 19:43, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That's too small for BGP announcement. I don't think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:39 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
-- Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 19:21, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can't do port forwarding. -Kun
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
ARDC is already looking on creating pop's (point of presence) that will be able to offer a way to receive your /30 allocation from them by connecting to the pop.
________________________________________ De : 44Net 44net-bounces+petem001=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org de la part de Af6ep via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 11 août 2021 00:30 À : 44Net general discussion Cc : eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org Objet : Re: [44net] Use cases
my suggestion is that if you need less than a /24 as required for bgp would be to coordinate with someone who has setup a bgp announced larger netblock and see if they will offer you a subnet of their block via vpn.
Eric
Af6EP
On 2021-08-10 19:43, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That's too small for BGP announcement. I don't think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:39 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
-- Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 19:21, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can't do port forwarding. -Kun
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
If we will be connecting to the POP via VPN, I would highly recommend Wireguard instead of OpenVPN. OpenVPN is kind of slow. Kun
From: pete M via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2021 5:10 AM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: pete Mmailto:petem001@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
ARDC is already looking on creating pop's (point of presence) that will be able to offer a way to receive your /30 allocation from them by connecting to the pop.
________________________________________ De : 44Net 44net-bounces+petem001=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org de la part de Af6ep via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 11 août 2021 00:30 À : 44Net general discussion Cc : eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org Objet : Re: [44net] Use cases
my suggestion is that if you need less than a /24 as required for bgp would be to coordinate with someone who has setup a bgp announced larger netblock and see if they will offer you a subnet of their block via vpn.
Eric
Af6EP
On 2021-08-10 19:43, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That's too small for BGP announcement. I don't think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:39 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
-- Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 19:21, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can't do port forwarding. -Kun
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
The beauty of the concept of the backbone network with PoPs is that every user can select the VPN protocol that they like (from the protocols offered by the PoP) and that not everyone has to use the same protocol. Some people may like OpenVPN because they know it, others may prefer L2TP/IPsec because their router supports it, others may want to use wireguard or openconnect.
Of course it will not be possible to offer everything invented in the world and still keep it managable, but at least there is no need to agree all on using the same protocol as there is with the IPIP mesh. We can add new protocols as they become available or become more attractive due to changing circumstances (e.g. support IPv6 both on inner and outer address, independently of course).
Rob
On 8/11/21 6:16 PM, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
If we will be connecting to the POP via VPN, I would highly recommend Wireguard instead of OpenVPN. OpenVPN is kind of slow. Kun
This concept of POP is already in the todo list from the TAC team. Of course multiple type of networking connection should be available. OpenVPN, WIREGUARD , even L2TPv3 for simple and secure bridging could be use.
Pierre VE2PF
________________________________________ De : 44Net 44net-bounces+petem001=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org de la part de Rob PE1CHL via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 11 août 2021 12:24 À : 44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc : Rob PE1CHL Objet : Re: [44net] Use cases
The beauty of the concept of the backbone network with PoPs is that every user can select the VPN protocol that they like (from the protocols offered by the PoP) and that not everyone has to use the same protocol. Some people may like OpenVPN because they know it, others may prefer L2TP/IPsec because their router supports it, others may want to use wireguard or openconnect.
Of course it will not be possible to offer everything invented in the world and still keep it managable, but at least there is no need to agree all on using the same protocol as there is with the IPIP mesh. We can add new protocols as they become available or become more attractive due to changing circumstances (e.g. support IPv6 both on inner and outer address, independently of course).
Rob
On 8/11/21 6:16 PM, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
If we will be connecting to the POP via VPN, I would highly recommend Wireguard instead of OpenVPN. OpenVPN is kind of slow. Kun
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
openvpn, or even more so ipsec in it's variants is much more widely adopted and implemented though. it's that ability to have a well doccumented, runs everywhere solution that's easy to setup and impliment that ought be importaint rather han worrying about eeking out the last bit of throughput over a given vpn link. If you really want to avoid the vpn overhead, do it over radio. This is amateur radio, not amateur internet.
eric
af6ep
On 2021-08-11 09:16, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
If we will be connecting to the POP via VPN, I would highly recommend Wireguard instead of OpenVPN. OpenVPN is kind of slow. Kun
From: pete M via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2021 5:10 AM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: pete Mmailto:petem001@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
ARDC is already looking on creating pop's (point of presence) that will be able to offer a way to receive your /30 allocation from them by connecting to the pop.
De : 44Net 44net-bounces+petem001=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org de la part de Af6ep via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 11 août 2021 00:30 À : 44Net general discussion Cc : eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org Objet : Re: [44net] Use cases
my suggestion is that if you need less than a /24 as required for bgp would be to coordinate with someone who has setup a bgp announced larger netblock and see if they will offer you a subnet of their block via vpn.
Eric
Af6EP
On 2021-08-10 19:43, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That's too small for BGP announcement. I don't think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:39 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
-- Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 19:21, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can't do port forwarding. -Kun _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
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On Aug 11, 2021, at 11:16, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
If we will be connecting to the POP via VPN, I would highly recommend Wireguard instead of OpenVPN. OpenVPN is kind of slow. Kun
The reason I chose OpenVPN is because it supports TCP based tunnels. Quite by accident I found the some ISPs are really sloppy when it comes to packet ordering. Visiting my daughter once, her ISP (Cox) really jumbled things up horribly. To the point of being unusable for IRLP voice. Switching to TCP, cleaned things right up. At least with TCP, the stream is re-constituted with the packets all in order.
Some cheap routers do not like UDP very much, sometimes difficult or impossible to get UDP to port forward correctly. Then we have many folks running around the countryside on RVs or even in their car using cellular for Internet which brings in wildly changing network condx
Besides IRLP does not need much performance, only around 80 kbps per connection tops. So even with the extra overhead, it works great. Reliability of the connection was more important to us than raw performance.
…and therein lies the Different strokes for different folks.
— Dave K9DC
Yes, I wish there would have a list of people to contact for vpn tunnel. Or there would be a more detail tutorials on how to use smaller block to achieve a public IP on a signal machines without a public IP. Kun
From: Af6ep via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 9:32 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.orgmailto:eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
my suggestion is that if you need less than a /24 as required for bgp would be to coordinate with someone who has setup a bgp announced larger netblock and see if they will offer you a subnet of their block via vpn.
Eric
Af6EP
On 2021-08-10 19:43, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That's too small for BGP announcement. I don't think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
From: Dave Gingrich via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:39 PM To: 44Net general discussionmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Dave Gingrichmailto:dave@dcg.us Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
Unfortunately no. IRLP VPN is only available to fully installed and authenticated IRLP nodes, mainly because the service runs on or within our existing IRLP infrastructure. But you could apply for your own allocation and setup an OpenVPN server of your own. It is quite likely there is another VPN implementations that is better suited for your use. You also could set it up in a data center close to you.
-- Dave K9DC
On Aug 10, 2021, at 19:21, KUN LIN via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Is it possible to use this for none IRLP application? We want to run RC Forb Server/Remotehams from our club house. But we use cellular internet and can't do port forwarding. -Kun
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
That is why I (and others) suggest that a backbone network is built where you can connect a /30 and have the backbone advertise larger networks on BGP and route only the /30 to you. Other parts of the same announcement can be routed to other users.
Rob
On 8/11/21 4:43 AM, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That’s too small for BGP announcement. I don’t think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
This would be a great idea. Kun
From: Rob PE1CHL via 44Netmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2021 1:39 AM To: 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Rob PE1CHLmailto:44net@pe1chl.nl Subject: Re: [44net] Use cases
That is why I (and others) suggest that a backbone network is built where you can connect a /30 and have the backbone advertise larger networks on BGP and route only the /30 to you. Other parts of the same announcement can be routed to other users.
Rob
On 8/11/21 4:43 AM, KUN LIN via 44Net wrote:
I do have a /30 allocation. That’s too small for BGP announcement. I don’t think I should apply for /24 just for BGP. I have tied but cannot figure out how to setup a /30 on a server and pipe it in. Kun
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.amp...
I have 2 /24s and 2 very different use cases.
Use case #1 - /24 routed via IPIP tunnels. This is purely to access the IPIP intranet, and eventually will have RF, possibly microwave links with some local hams, as I will have a few within easy microwave range. And I want to link with the rest of the intranet. I'm using a R-Pi as a router to provide the connectivity.
Use case #2 - IRLP reflector, D-STAR reflector, Echolink conferences, Echolink proxies and 1/3 of a multiprotocol conference server. I have a /24 BGP routed to a VPS in Melbourne, where the above services run. Approximately 200 of the 254 available IP addresses are currently in active use (mostly as Echolink proxies).
If the TAC proposal goes ahead, I would keep this structure, though the BGP routed subnet would be moved to 44.0/10, to comply with the new structure. The tunneled subnet would likely remain where it is, as it's already in 44.128/10.
On 11/8/21 6:58 am, Lynn Grant via 44Net wrote:
Greetings,
I have been a ham for over 50 years (though not recently active), and have been involved with networks for about 20, so I am following the recent discussions with great interest.
While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?"
Thanks, and 73,
Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
<If the TAC proposal goes ahead, I would keep this structure, though the <BGP routed subnet would be moved to 44.0/10, to comply with the new <structure. The tunneled subnet would likely remain where it is, as it's <already in 44.128/10.
exactly but you would have a easier path to than the IPIP tunel for the 44.128/10 part of the network as it will be available on a POP closer to your location lowering the traveling time of the packets to a few ms rather than the roung trip to VK land to UCSD back to the other IPIP subnet and so on for the answer. back.
________________________________________ De : 44Net 44net-bounces+petem001=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org de la part de Tony Langdon via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 11 août 2021 04:16 À : 44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc : Tony Langdon Objet : Re: [44net] Use cases
I have 2 /24s and 2 very different use cases.
Use case #1 - /24 routed via IPIP tunnels. This is purely to access the IPIP intranet, and eventually will have RF, possibly microwave links with some local hams, as I will have a few within easy microwave range. And I want to link with the rest of the intranet. I'm using a R-Pi as a router to provide the connectivity.
Use case #2 - IRLP reflector, D-STAR reflector, Echolink conferences, Echolink proxies and 1/3 of a multiprotocol conference server. I have a /24 BGP routed to a VPS in Melbourne, where the above services run. Approximately 200 of the 254 available IP addresses are currently in active use (mostly as Echolink proxies).
If the TAC proposal goes ahead, I would keep this structure, though the BGP routed subnet would be moved to 44.0/10, to comply with the new structure. The tunneled subnet would likely remain where it is, as it's already in 44.128/10.
On 11/8/21 6:58 am, Lynn Grant via 44Net wrote:
Greetings,
I have been a ham for over 50 years (though not recently active), and have been involved with networks for about 20, so I am following the recent discussions with great interest.
While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?"
Thanks, and 73,
Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
-- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
On 11/8/21 10:42 pm, pete M via 44Net wrote:
<If the TAC proposal goes ahead, I would keep this structure, though the <BGP routed subnet would be moved to 44.0/10, to comply with the new <structure. The tunneled subnet would likely remain where it is, as it's <already in 44.128/10.
exactly but you would have a easier path to than the IPIP tunel for the 44.128/10 part of the network as it will be available on a POP closer to your location lowering the traveling time of the packets to a few ms rather than the roung trip to VK land to UCSD back to the other IPIP subnet and so on for the answer. back.
My understanding is that the IPIP mesh is peer-peer for traffic carried over the mesh, which means the POP/backbone has to be well designed to maintain latency, since by definition, it will be slightly non optimal for routing (the leg from the end user to the POP is an extra detour).
Like others, we setup our network here (well, the current generation of it that uses WiFi links, tunnels, automatic routing, internet routing etc) in the first place to build a multisite repeater system. We wanted to place receivers and transmitters all over the country and connect them into a single network using SVXlink. Others want to do the same thing with D-Star, DMR, etc. And we have ATV repeaters that typically have a lot of equipment (receivers, transcoders, modulators, etc) that is all IP-managable and the operator of the repeater wants to control it from home. So we setup this network and we also installed access points for users, and encourage then to experiment with e.g. VoIP. And users also contribute to the redundancy of the network, when they have a WiFi link to some nearby access point and a tunnel over their internet connection to our gateway. Such connections can become a fallback link to the site when a link to another site fails.
Some of the equipment is accessible only from within this network, but some systems are accessible (on their 44.137.x.x IP address) from the internet, e.g. for Echolink connections to repeaters, status websites, WebSDR installations, etc.
Rob
On 8/10/21 10:58 PM, Lynn Grant via 44Net wrote:
Greetings,
I have been a ham for over 50 years (though not recently active), and have been involved with networks for about 20, so I am following the recent discussions with great interest.
While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?"
Thanks, and 73,
Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
We are using IP allocations so that we can have a routed IP packet network. Not all of the node on the Eastnet system are IP routing capable but many are. Some of these segments of the RF network are bridged together with IP connections. The long term goal is to have all the node RF linked and IP routing enabled on them. While it's much slower than the internet, it's a network within our own control in times of emergencies.
https://www.eastnetpacket.org/index.shtml https://www.eastnetpacket.org/Maps/
Brian N2KGC
-----Original Message----- From: 44Net [mailto:44net-bounces+radiowebst=yahoo.com@mailman.ampr.org] On Behalf Of Lynn Grant via 44Net Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 4:59 PM To: 44net General Discussion Cc: Lynn Grant Subject: [44net] Use cases
Greetings,
I have been a ham for over 50 years (though not recently active), and have been involved with networks for about 20, so I am following the recent discussions with great interest.
While I can understand in general terms what might be done with hybrid Internat-ham radio links, I would find it very useful to see examples of what other hams are currently doing with them. Would it be possible to have a few hams do short write-ups on what they are doing, and put them on the ARDC home page? Right now, it seems heavily skewed towards how to set up the networking end of things (which, of course, is very important, and something that hams new to networking could use some help with), with not much attention given to "Why would I want to do this?"
Thanks, and 73,
Lynn Grant N8AF / V31LK _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
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Brian Webster -
Dave Gingrich -
eric.fort.listmail＠fortconsulting.org -
KUN LIN -
Lynn Grant -
pete M -
Rob PE1CHL -
Tony Langdon