If you're one of the very few people who have ever taken advantage of the ability to read USENET news via AMPRNet and the news.ucsd.edu server, you should be aware that that server is failing from old age and will be taken out of service soon. We don't plan to replace it; Usenet itself is fading away. I co-authored the NNTP protocol some 31 years ago; that's a pretty good run for any internet standard.
I wasn't aware that there was any special service from news.ucsd.edu towards AMPRNet... does it carry any special groups other than rec.radio.amateur.*?
Fortunately my ISP still maintains USENET servers, two separate clusters even, one for what we used to use for news and another one dedicated to moving large blobs of gibberish :-)
Indeed I see your name above RFC977! Great! I once maintained a CNEWS server for a company, which used a UUCP batch feed over a 9600 baud phone modem. The group list had to be trimmed all the time so it would not get behind so much it would never catch up, and the 200MB spool had to be carefully watched as well. Those were the days...
No, just the big-8 and no binaries. It doesn't have much disk in it,
It wasn't special service, just read permission for hosts in the ampr.org domain.
At the rate it's failing, it may not last a month. We'll see. - Brian
On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 08:25:58PM +0200, Rob Janssen wrote:
I wasn't aware that there was any special service from news.ucsd.edu towards AMPRNet... does it carry any special groups other than rec.radio.amateur.*?
Brian, I'd be willing to throw some money into a donation to get it replaced. Would it run on a Raspberry Pi.. mailto:raspberry_pi_4-ham_radio-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Let me know.. I can send you one. Or a Cash donation, to help replace the Server. Maybe if enoughdonate.. If I pi will do it I can send you everything you should need. FREE>
73 jerry n9lya
-----Original Message----- From: 44Net [mailto:44net-bounces+n9lya=uronode.n9lya.ampr.org@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Brian Kantor Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:33 PM To: AMPRNet working group 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
No, just the big-8 and no binaries. It doesn't have much disk in it,
It wasn't special service, just read permission for hosts in the ampr.org domain.
At the rate it's failing, it may not last a month. We'll see. - Brian
On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 08:25:58PM +0200, Rob Janssen wrote:
I wasn't aware that there was any special service from news.ucsd.edu towards AMPRNet... does it carry any special groups other than
rec.radio.amateur.*? _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
No, the campus has decided it will no longer offer USENET service when this machine dies, so there's nothing that can be done here. Perhaps someone else would run one for AMPRNet users, but it won't be UCSD.
Thanks anyway. - Brian
On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 03:05:06PM -0400, Jerry wrote:
Brian, I'd be willing to throw some money into a donation to get it replaced. Would it run on a Raspberry Pi.. mailto:raspberry_pi_4-ham_radio-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Let me know.. I can send you one. Or a Cash donation, to help replace the Server. Maybe if enoughdonate.. If I pi will do it I can send you everything you should need. FREE> 73 jerry n9lya
where the usenet feed come from in case someone want to built such a machine for the amprnet community ?
________________________________ From: 44Net 44net-bounces+ronenp=hotmail.com@hamradio.ucsd.edu on behalf of Brian Kantor Brian@UCSD.Edu Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 12:23 PM To: AMPRNet working group Subject: Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
Perhaps someone else would run one for AMPRNet users, but it won't be UCSD.
Thanks anyway. - Brian
Usenet feeds come from neighbors - it's a distributed flooding mesh.
UCSD's feeds are Stanford, who will probably shut down their USENET service in a short while, and CMU, whose status I don't know. You can get a feed from eternal-september.org, according to their web site, but I've never tried.
USENET is obsolete. Don't waste your time on it. - Brian
On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 07:26:39PM +0000, R P wrote:
where the usenet feed come from in case someone want to built such a machine for the amprnet community ?
On 9/6/2017 3:36 PM, Brian Kantor wrote:
Usenet feeds come from neighbors - it's a distributed flooding mesh.
UCSD's feeds are Stanford, who will probably shut down their USENET service in a short while, and CMU, whose status I don't know. You can get a feed from eternal-september.org, according to their web site, but I've never tried.
USENET is obsolete. Don't waste your time on it.
Say it ain't so!
PLEASE don't say Usenet is obsolete. I used to be on the BIG-8 board! I once wrote a tutorial for users of KA9Q NOS, on how to enter nntp posts using Telnet to port 119! I was attending Northeastern University when the IS department retired their home-grown message board in favor of the new Usenet paradigm. Hell, I remember when the Eternal September started!
As fortune would have it, I'm the Moderator of The Telecom Digest, which predates Usenet but is now available on the comp.dcom.telecom newsgroup. Usenet is an old friend, and I don't want to think it's obsolete: it makes me feel old.
Oh, well: only Nixon could go to China, and only the author of nntp can say Usenet is obsolete. I guess I'll learn to adapt.
Bill, W4EWH
Please don't say that USENET is obsolete: it makes me feel old.
Well Bill, what has happened is that USENET has condensed into a few central sites exchanging the articles, and accepting subscriptions from people who still want to read/post to the newsgroups. It's the distributed model that's died. Yes, those few sites are still using NNTP to move the news back and forth, so from that perspective I guess it's not dead either. But as for having hundreds or thousands of sites contributing to the discussions, that's dead.
People who want to continue with USENET can subscribe to one of the central Usenet servers. eternal-september.org is free; the others charge relatively modest subscription fees.
But I really don't think it's the best model for replacing the 44net mailing list. Let's look around and see what's out there. Maybe there's something better. - Brian
On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 03:20:36PM -0400, Bill Horne wrote:
Say it ain't so!
PLEASE don't say Usenet is obsolete. I used to be on the BIG-8 board! I once wrote a tutorial for users of KA9Q NOS, on how to enter nntp posts using Telnet to port 119! I was attending Northeastern University when the IS department retired their home-grown message board in favor of the new Usenet paradigm. Hell, I remember when the Eternal September started!
As fortune would have it, I'm the Moderator of The Telecom Digest, which predates Usenet but is now available on the comp.dcom.telecom newsgroup. Usenet is an old friend, and I don't want to think it's obsolete: it makes me feel old.
Oh, well: only Nixon could go to China, and only the author of nntp can say Usenet is obsolete. I guess I'll learn to adapt.
Bill, W4EWH
Please don't say that USENET is obsolete: it makes me feel old.
On 10 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Bill Horne bill@horne.net wrote:
On 9/6/2017 3:36 PM, Brian Kantor wrote:
USENET is obsolete. Don't waste your time on it.
Say it ain't so!
It ain’t so!
There’s not that much activity on it nowadays compared to ye olde days and there’s certainly nowhere near as many servers peering, but we’ve run a news server for donkeys years and still do. If anyone wants a text only feed drop me a line, I could even do it over 44/8 if you want. Happy to provide text only peering or nnrp (reader) feed.
Chris
That's very generous of you, Chris.
What the UCSD news server did was allow nnrp (reader) access to anyone whose hostname resolved to .ampr.org. That server has now died three times in the last 24 hours; I'm fairly certain it's not going to make it to Halloween, the scheduled shutdown date. - Brian
On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 08:49:16PM +0100, G1FEF via 44Net wrote:
There’s not that much activity on it nowadays compared to ye olde days and there’s certainly nowhere near as many servers peering, but we’ve run a news server for donkeys years and still do. If anyone wants a text only feed drop me a line, I could even do it over 44/8 if you want. Happy to provide text only peering or nnrp (reader) feed.
Chris
Hi Chris,
I am interested in Usenet peering, mostly for curiosity's sake. I can do it over 44net, as my connection is quite fast (I'm directly annouced), but of course I'd be happy to connect over the "real" internet if that works best for you.
Thanks, Simon
On 09/10/2017 12:49 PM, G1FEF via 44Net wrote:
On 10 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Bill Horne bill@horne.net wrote:
On 9/6/2017 3:36 PM, Brian Kantor wrote:
USENET is obsolete. Don't waste your time on it.
Say it ain't so!
It ain’t so!
There’s not that much activity on it nowadays compared to ye olde days and there’s certainly nowhere near as many servers peering, but we’ve run a news server for donkeys years and still do. If anyone wants a text only feed drop me a line, I could even do it over 44/8 if you want. Happy to provide text only peering or nnrp (reader) feed.
Chris
44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
On 13/09/2017 4:14 AM, Simon McFarlane wrote:
Hi Chris,
I am interested in Usenet peering, mostly for curiosity's sake. I can do it over 44net, as my connection is quite fast (I'm directly annouced), but of course I'd be happy to connect over the "real" internet if that works best for you.
Well, I could go a step further. I run some old school BBSs as a hobby, but the modern software I use allows me to gate to/from mailing lists and NNTP. Perhaps this is something else we could play with over AMPRnet. :) I could setup a dedicated ham radio system, or add a ham flag to an existing system, so only verified hams can post to the network. A longer term goal could be to extend coverage to AX.25, HSMM, etc on air.
Why? Because I can. :) or "Why not"? ;)
On 13/09/2017 02:54, Tony Langdon wrote:
On 13/09/2017 4:14 AM, Simon McFarlane wrote:
Why? Because I can. :) or "Why not"? ;)
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet? Are there any guides howto do that?
Bill (M1BKF)
It may be a bit too NOS'sy but try: http://www.rat.org.uk/amrad/nntp4v.htm
73, G.
-----Original Message----- From: 44Net [mailto:44net-bounces+gareth=lightfox.plus.com@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of W.B.Hill Sent: 14 September 2017 12:52 To: 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
On 13/09/2017 02:54, Tony Langdon wrote:
On 13/09/2017 4:14 AM, Simon McFarlane wrote:
Why? Because I can. :) or "Why not"? ;)
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet? Are there any guides howto do that?
Bill (M1BKF)
I set up InterNetNews on a Raspberry Pi a while back. Info was a little sparse. I don't have the image any more but am willing to do it again if folks want to set up a small amprnet-only news network that doesn't necessarily use big-8 nomenclature... .ham comes to mind. I think its a great way to have a distribted message base so there is no single point of failure if the list server goes down or groups.io goes away for some reason. Newsreaders ard built into some of the email clients too.
Tom, N2XU
On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 6:53 AM W.B.Hill rtufty@gmail.com wrote:
On 13/09/2017 02:54, Tony Langdon wrote:
On 13/09/2017 4:14 AM, Simon McFarlane wrote:
Why? Because I can. :) or "Why not"? ;)
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet? Are there any guides howto do that?
Bill (M1BKF)
-- Red to red, black to black, switch it on, but stand well back.
44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet? Are there any guides howto do that?
It wouldn't be a bad idea, but the dearth of clients means it will probably never be widely used.
INN is good software, and still being maintained. It's a bit complicated to set up, but works well. You just have to choose your peers very carefully. - Brian
It is still part of Thunderbird, Outlook, etc. so there are still sufficient clients.
Jnos/Tnos can be used as NNTP server/client too.
Bob VE3TOK
On 2017-09-14 10:08 PM, Brian Kantor wrote:
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet? Are there any guides howto do that?
It wouldn't be a bad idea, but the dearth of clients means it will probably never be widely used.
INN is good software, and still being maintained. It's a bit complicated to set up, but works well. You just have to choose your peers very carefully.
- Brian
44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
On 15/09/2017 2:39 PM, Boudewijn (Bob) Tenty wrote:
It is still part of Thunderbird, Outlook, etc. so there are still sufficient clients.
Jnos/Tnos can be used as NNTP server/client too.
Yep, plenty of clients around.
On 15/09/2017 11:17 AM, Tom C wrote:
I set up InterNetNews on a Raspberry Pi a while back. Info was a little sparse. I don't have the image any more but am willing to do it again if folks want to set up a small amprnet-only news network that doesn't necessarily use big-8 nomenclature... .ham comes to mind. I think its a great way to have a distribted message base so there is no single point of failure if the list server goes down or groups.io goes away for some reason. Newsreaders ard built into some of the email clients too.
Sounds like a fun project. I'd even gate it to my BBS into some ham only areas, if the other news admins are OK with that. :)
I like this idea. It would help amprnet have a "reason for existing" - a facility that (with the decline in Usenet access), isnt readily (or economically) available on the Internet-at-large. If there is enough worthwhile content in the amateur-related newsgroups, and is limited to those groups and to 44.x.x.x hosts, then such a feed could be quite relevant.
Do we have anyone who currently has a Usenet feed who can feed into amprnet?
Steve vk5asf
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet?
Bill (M1BKF)
Don't solve a problem that doesn't exist.
Usenet access is readily and economically available. There are enough providers that there are sites that review which is best. Google for 'usenet providers' and see for yourself.
One I use now is eternal-september.org. It's free and offers most Usenet newsgroups except the 'binaries' groups (which consist primarily of copyright violations).
There is very little useful content in the amateur-related newsgroups I've visited. For example, 'rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc' consists almost entirely of badly-formatted partial excerpts from somebody's blog, few entries of which have anything to do with digital. - Brian
On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 04:05:38PM +0930, Steve Fraser wrote:
I like this idea. It would help amprnet have a "reason for existing" - a facility that (with the decline in Usenet access), isnt readily (or economically) available on the Internet-at-large. If there is enough worthwhile content in the amateur-related newsgroups, and is limited to those groups and to 44.x.x.x hosts, then such a feed could be quite relevant.
Do we have anyone who currently has a Usenet feed who can feed into amprnet?
Steve vk5asf
Well, sounds good to me. NNTP only over ampr, not gated to the big bad internet? Bill (M1BKF)
Do we have anyone who currently has a Usenet feed who can feed into amprnet?
We've been running a news server (inn) for years. I've already put reader access in for ampr.org hosts to provide the same service that Brian provided on the machine that has died and is being decommissioned, it's on 44.131.151.2 or on the public Internet as nntp.comgw.net
It wouldn't be difficult to setup some local groups just for amprnet use, it would also be fairly trivial to pipe this mailing list into a local group if that is of interest to anyone?
Chris
If someone can tell me how I can add it to my Net44 URONODE box.. I have plenty of bandwidth.
-----Original Message----- From: 44Net [mailto:44net-bounces+n9lya=uronode.n9lya.ampr.org@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Brian Kantor Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 3:24 PM To: AMPRNet working group 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] USENET news on AMPRNet
No, the campus has decided it will no longer offer USENET service when this machine dies, so there's nothing that can be done here. Perhaps someone else would run one for AMPRNet users, but it won't be UCSD.
Thanks anyway. - Brian
On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 03:05:06PM -0400, Jerry wrote:
Brian, I'd be willing to throw some money into a donation to get it replaced. Would it run on a Raspberry Pi.. mailto:raspberry_pi_4-ham_radio-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Let me know.. I can send you one. Or a Cash donation, to help replace the Server. Maybe if enoughdonate.. If I pi will do it I can send you everything you should need. FREE> 73 jerry n9lya
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W.B.Hill