Hi,
First time posting on this list.
I am new to AMPRNet and actually still struggling to make gateway. I realized that I have to download encap file with route definitions and load them into my gateway router so my networks sees all other networks in 44/8.
It is suggested that I have to get up Linux box that will do the gateway job.
Thing is, I want to use Mikrotik router that I already have in use, and which handles my network. I do not need another box just to play gateway.
I do not understand why standard dynamic routing protocol is not used in first place, so we would not have this issue at all as all routers are capable of dynamic routing?!?!
I noticed that there is a script made by Marius, YO2LOJ, that reads encap file and then sets Mikrotik up to it. But, to run that script I again need Linux box. I noticed there are other scripts that do the same for other kind of routers.
I guess there are number of fellow hams that would like to use already set router and not additional Linux box.
Why then such scripts are not run at portal.ampr.org so we can, besides encap file, download prepared files for popular routers, so we do not need to make conversions for ourselves?
If such download is provided, I would be able make Mikrotik itself to download file and run it to set routes. I would not need additional Linux box to do that.
That would make whole process simpler, easier to implement and even cheaper (in manner not just money, but efforts, physical space, maintenance...) and that could motivate more people to get involved.
If resources on portal.ampr.org are limited, mirror copies of those files could be easily established to prevent problems.
YT9TP Pedja
I struggled at first with the Linux setup but when you look at the big picture, it is not the dynamic routing but rather the tunneling to all the distributed subnets. In this configuration, the Linux box is the lowest cost most functional solution. And I am a Cisco guy.
While the Linux learning curve can be steep, there are a lot of great guys you can reach out to for assistance. They helped me.
In the end, I run both a Linux and Cisco solution capable of providing and routing to the subnets. The Linux box is my main link to the rest of the networks.
Good luck.
Jesse - WC3XS
Hi,
First time posting on this list.
I am new to AMPRNet and actually still struggling to make gateway. I realized that I have to download encap file with route definitions and load them into my gateway router so my networks sees all other networks in 44/8.
It is suggested that I have to get up Linux box that will do the gateway job.
Thing is, I want to use Mikrotik router that I already have in use, and which handles my network. I do not need another box just to play gateway.
I do not understand why standard dynamic routing protocol is not used in first place, so we would not have this issue at all as all routers are capable of dynamic routing?!?!
I noticed that there is a script made by Marius, YO2LOJ, that reads encap file and then sets Mikrotik up to it. But, to run that script I again need Linux box. I noticed there are other scripts that do the same for other kind of routers.
I guess there are number of fellow hams that would like to use already set router and not additional Linux box.
Why then such scripts are not run at portal.ampr.org so we can, besides encap file, download prepared files for popular routers, so we do not need to make conversions for ourselves?
If such download is provided, I would be able make Mikrotik itself to download file and run it to set routes. I would not need additional Linux box to do that.
That would make whole process simpler, easier to implement and even cheaper (in manner not just money, but efforts, physical space, maintenance...) and that could motivate more people to get involved.
If resources on portal.ampr.org are limited, mirror copies of those files could be easily established to prevent problems.
YT9TP Pedja
44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
Pedja (et al);
Jesse spaketh:
While the Linux learning curve can be steep, there are a lot of great guys you can reach out to for assistance. They helped me.
I have several resources available online for amprnet usage, mainly linux based. I just finished writing a white page document explaining the ax25/netrom config files in a more "layman's" term for those who aren't as well versed in linux as others. I also have a tool online for configuring Source Address FilterED (SAFED) gateways, Xnet documents in english, and some other goodies. I'll be migrating them all into a single reference point when I can find all the documents and can put them all together. Most of them are at http://n1uro.ampr.org under things to 'do'. A couple may be under things to 'see'. If you're not that comfortable in a linux environment, these may help ease the pains.
Welcome to the amprnet!
Thanks for warm welcome friends :)
Jesse, WC3XS wrote: I struggled at first with the Linux setup but when you look at the big picture, it is not the dynamic routing but rather the tunneling to all the distributed subnets. In this configuration, the Linux box is the lowest cost most functional solution. And I am a Cisco guy.
I see your point. butt take alook at mine: I already have seven PC's runinng as routers or servers, plus few router boards and other devices. My apartment looks like NOC. I am looking how to cut that down, not to expand :)
Right now I am not prepared to mess with another Linux box and I want to stick with Mikrotik. I am aware that is not that simple (I would have to do some scipting) and has drawbacks (not real time update), but I think it is doable, and my goal is to first try to do that. If I fail, I can always skip back to Linux box story.
While the Linux learning curve can be steep, there are a lot of great guys you can reach out to for assistance. They helped me.
I already directly contacted some people and I've got encouragement and offers to help much more than I expected.
Brian Rogers wrote: I have several resources available online for amprnet usage, mainly linux based. I just finished writing a white page document explaining the ax25/netrom config files in a more "layman's" term for those who aren't as well versed in linux as others. I also have a tool online for configuring Source Address FilterED (SAFED) gateways, Xnet documents in english, and some other goodies. I'll be migrating them all into a single reference point when I can find all the documents and can put them all together. Most of them are at http://n1uro.ampr.org under things to 'do'. A couple may be under things to 'see'. If you're not that comfortable in a linux environment, these may help ease the pains.
I already saw that. I am not just jumping in all this. I have an idea of joining ARPAnet for a long time. It is just that now I decided it is time to really get involved.
I've spent days reading all I could reach about this issue.
I prefer to take it slowly and learn thoroughly. First what I have to do is to establish local arpanet and proper routing for the rest of the network.
For start I have to understand this:
- why it is chosen to have to set VPNs to each single subnet in 44/8?
- why we have to use customized dynamic routing protocol instead of well established and widely supported protocols available?
Pedja YT9TP
On 07/24/2013 10:07 AM, YT9TP op. Pedja wrote:
I already have seven PC's runinng as routers or servers, plus few router boards and other devices. My apartment looks like NOC. I am looking how to cut that down, not to expand
Sounds like you want virtualization. Fortunately, it's trivial with Linux. Not so much with a Mikrotik router.
Running Linux on virtualization was actually pretty smooth. My AMPR gateway is running on VMWare now. Takes 10 seconds to boot. Very nice....
-----Original Message----- From: 44net-bounces+jesse=hindmarsh.cc@hamradio.ucsd.edu [mailto:44net-bounces+jesse=hindmarsh.cc@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Phil Frost Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:29 PM To: 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] Why is Linux box necessary?
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ On 07/24/2013 10:07 AM, YT9TP op. Pedja wrote:
I already have seven PC's runinng as routers or servers, plus few router boards and other devices. My apartment looks like NOC. I am looking how to cut that down, not to expand
Sounds like you want virtualization. Fortunately, it's trivial with Linux. Not so much with a Mikrotik router. _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
Actually you can do virtualization on Mikrotik. More specific there are OpenWRT distributions wich can run in a virtual router environment on Mikrotik routers.
Marius, YO2LOJ
-----Original Message----- From: 44net-bounces+jesse=hindmarsh.cc@hamradio.ucsd.edu [mailto:44net-bounces+jesse=hindmarsh.cc@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Phil Frost Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:29 PM To: 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] Why is Linux box necessary? ... Sounds like you want virtualization. Fortunately, it's trivial with Linux. Not so much with a Mikrotik router.
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:14 PM, YT9TP op. Pedja yt9tp@uzice.net wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Thing is, I want to use Mikrotik router that I already have in use, and which handles my network. I do not need another box just to play gateway.
...
I noticed that there is a script made by Marius, YO2LOJ, that reads encap file and then sets Mikrotik up to it. But, to run that script I again need Linux box. I noticed there are other scripts that do the same for other kind of routers.
Hello Pedja,
I wrote a configuration script for Mikrotik in Python so that it can be run from any one of the many operating systems that support Python.
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/tree/master/amprupdate
Edit the first few lines to match your network, then just run it periodically to keep your Mikrotik configuration up to date. The script will create the tunnel interfaces and routes required to reach other AMPR networks. When a network is removed, it will remove that tunnel interface and route from your router.
Tom KD7LXL
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:14 AM, YT9TP op. Pedja yt9tp@uzice.net wrote:
Thing is, I want to use Mikrotik router that I already have in use, and which handles my network. I do not need another box just to play gateway.
I do not understand why standard dynamic routing protocol is not used in first place, so we would not have this issue at all as all routers are capable of dynamic routing?!?!
It's true that most routers support common dynamic routing protocols, but the downside is that most of those those standard protocols (BGP, OSPF, RIP...) only support passing routing information between routers which are already directly connected *before* the protocol starts doing its magic (i.e. have some sort of link of them - wire, wireless, or a tunnel / VPN).
What we need is a way to set up tunnels, and "normal" dynamic routing protocols simply don't do that. The rip44 thing we currently do to automatically transmit tunnel routes uses the RIP packet format, but the action taken by rip44d on Linux is quite different from what any standard RIP protocol implementation would do - it sets up tunnel destinations instead of simple routing changes to locally connected routers.
These days some standard protocols exist to set up dynamic multi-point tunnel/VPN networks, such as Cisco's DMVPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Multipoint_Virtual_Private_Network - apparently also supported by opennhrp on Linux). Might be fun to play with those. The "interesting" part would be trying to make such a setup co-exist and interconnected with the old amprnet subnets in an effective way (i.e. not traversing via UCSD every time).
Why then such scripts are not run at portal.ampr.org so we can, besides encap file, download prepared files for popular routers, so we do not need to make conversions for ourselves?
That's not a bad idea.
- Hessu
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On 26/07/2013 10:05, Heikki Hannikainen wrote:
- - apparently also supported by opennhrp on Linux). Might be fun to
Usually the places you cannot get IPIP to work are the same places you won't get GRE (used by DMVPN/OpenNHRP) to work as well. So that brings us back to square 1.
Very basic NAT boxes handle TCP and UDP but rarely more. (Of course there are boxes that do more, I know, but those boxes don't have the issues we are looking to work around :-) ).
Some networks are firewalled and allow access to a few selected ports only (e.g. 53, 80, 443), so we should be looking for a least 1 tunnel protocol that can run over TCP or UDP (or even both) using a configurable port.
73 de Marc, LX1DUC
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On 26/07/2013 10:05, Heikki Hannikainen wrote:
These days some standard protocols exist to set up dynamic multi-point tunnel/VPN networks, such as Cisco's DMVPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Multipoint_Virtual_Private_Network
- - apparently also supported by opennhrp on Linux). Might be fun to
play with those. The "interesting" part would be trying to make such a setup co-exist and interconnected with the old amprnet subnets in an effective way (i.e. not traversing via UCSD every time).
Usually the places you cannot get IPIP to work are the same places you won't get GRE (used by DMVPN/OpenNHRP) to work as well. So that brings us back to square 1.
Very basic NAT boxes handle TCP and UDP but rarely more. (Of course there are boxes that do more, I know, but those boxes don't have the issues we are looking to work around :-) ).
Some networks are firewalled and allow access to a few selected ports only (e.g. 53, 80, 443), so we should be looking for a least 1 tunnel protocol that can run over TCP or UDP (or even both) using a configurable port.
73 de Marc, LX1DUC
We want everyone to run Linux, that's why!
I can run the script for you and give you the output if you'd like. But you should really maintain at least one Linux box, IMHO. IANAL. IDDQD. On Jul 23, 2013 3:15 PM, "YT9TP op. Pedja" yt9tp@uzice.net wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) ______________________________**_________________ Hi,
First time posting on this list.
I am new to AMPRNet and actually still struggling to make gateway. I realized that I have to download encap file with route definitions and load them into my gateway router so my networks sees all other networks in 44/8.
It is suggested that I have to get up Linux box that will do the gateway job.
Thing is, I want to use Mikrotik router that I already have in use, and which handles my network. I do not need another box just to play gateway.
I do not understand why standard dynamic routing protocol is not used in first place, so we would not have this issue at all as all routers are capable of dynamic routing?!?!
I noticed that there is a script made by Marius, YO2LOJ, that reads encap file and then sets Mikrotik up to it. But, to run that script I again need Linux box. I noticed there are other scripts that do the same for other kind of routers.
I guess there are number of fellow hams that would like to use already set router and not additional Linux box.
Why then such scripts are not run at portal.ampr.org so we can, besides encap file, download prepared files for popular routers, so we do not need to make conversions for ourselves?
If such download is provided, I would be able make Mikrotik itself to download file and run it to set routes. I would not need additional Linux box to do that.
That would make whole process simpler, easier to implement and even cheaper (in manner not just money, but efforts, physical space, maintenance...) and that could motivate more people to get involved.
If resources on portal.ampr.org are limited, mirror copies of those files could be easily established to prevent problems.
YT9TP Pedja
______________________________**___________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/**mailman/listinfo/44nethttp://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.**html http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
Attach the script, the input data and the instructions. On Jul 26, 2013 11:06 PM, "YT9TP op. Pedja" yt9tp@uzice.net wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) ______________________________**_________________ On 26.07.13. 22:38, C.J. Adams-Collier wrote:
I can run the script for you and give you the output if you'd like.
I'd appreciate that.
Pedja
______________________________**___________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/**mailman/listinfo/44nethttp://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.**html http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
-
Brian Rogers -
C.J. Adams-Collier -
Heikki Hannikainen -
Jesse Hindmarsh -
jesse＠hindmarsh.cc
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Marc, LX1DUC -
Marius Petrescu -
Phil Frost -
Tom Hayward -
YT9TP op. Pedja