I'm working on a presentation about packet networking.
Does anyone have a reasonable estimate of:
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via AMPRnet
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via non-AMPRnet BBS forwarding network
-- The number of BBS systems connected via both networks
Note: This is not an attempt to compare the two. We're connected both ways. AND, I realize that other BBSs also connect to both, so there will be duplication. That's o.k. I'd just like to be able to give people a sense of how big (or small) each of the networks still is.
If you have an estimate for any of the above numbers, can you tell me what it is and how you arrived at it?
Thanks,
Michael
N6MEF
Not sure how much it will help, but the packet station database at http://ncpa.ampr.org/cgi-bin/database/ncpa.pl will give you some information at least for California.
Not sure who out there has something more global.
Bill KG6BAJ
At 10:39 AM 12/7/2013, you wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ I'm working on a presentation about packet networking.
Does anyone have a reasonable estimate of:
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via AMPRnet
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via non-AMPRnet BBS forwarding network
-- The number of BBS systems connected via both networks
Note: This is not an attempt to compare the two. We're connected both ways. AND, I realize that other BBSs also connect to both, so there will be duplication. That's o.k. I'd just like to be able to give people a sense of how big (or small) each of the networks still is.
If you have an estimate for any of the above numbers, can you tell me what it is and how you arrived at it?
Thanks,
Michael
N6MEF
Hello Michael,
Why just do not create a survy site and post the link here and all other Ham places?
73 de Jean
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Michael E. Fox - N6MEF n6mef@mefox.orgwrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ I'm working on a presentation about packet networking.
Does anyone have a reasonable estimate of:
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via AMPRnet
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via non-AMPRnet BBS forwarding network
-- The number of BBS systems connected via both networks
Note: This is not an attempt to compare the two. We're connected both ways. AND, I realize that other BBSs also connect to both, so there will be duplication. That's o.k. I'd just like to be able to give people a sense of how big (or small) each of the networks still is.
If you have an estimate for any of the above numbers, can you tell me what it is and how you arrived at it?
Thanks,
Michael
N6MEF
-----Original Message----- From: 44net-bounces+marius=yo2loj.ro@hamradio.ucsd.edu [mailto:44net-bounces+marius=yo2loj.ro@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Jean Létourneau Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 20:55 To: AMPRNet working group Subject: Re: [44net] network size estimates
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Hello Michael,
Why just do not create a survy site and post the link here and all other Ham places?
73 de Jean
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Michael E. Fox - N6MEF n6mef@mefox.orgwrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ I'm working on a presentation about packet networking.
Does anyone have a reasonable estimate of:
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via AMPRnet
-- The number of BBS Systems reachable via non-AMPRnet BBS forwarding network
-- The number of BBS systems connected via both networks
Note: This is not an attempt to compare the two. We're connected both ways. AND, I realize that other BBSs also connect to both, so there will be duplication. That's o.k. I'd just like to be able to give people a sense of how big (or small) each of the networks still is.
If you have an estimate for any of the above numbers, can you tell me what it is and how you arrived at it?
Thanks,
Michael
N6MEF
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Sysop de: VE2PKT (BBS), VE2PKT-3 (URONode),VE2PKT-4, VE2RAJ (XRouter) : VE2RCN-1, VE2RDL-1, VE2RGC-1, VE2RVA-1, (The-Net) : VE2PKT-9 (DXCluster), VE2PKT-10 (Winlink Gateway) RF: 147.435 Mhz (1200 Bps)
Internet: Telnet xrouter-ve2pkt.dyndns.org port 23 (Network Node) Telnet fbb-ve2pkt.dyndns.org port 6300 (FBB BBS) Telnet ve2pkt.dyndns.org port 9000 (DXCluster)
E-Mail: packet: ve2pkt@ve2pkt.#qbc.qc.can.noam ampr net: ve2pkt@ve2pkt.ampr.org Inet: ve2pkt@amsat.org or ve2pkt@gmail.com
Bill: Thanks, but I'm looking for something worldwide.
Jean: A survey site is never going to be even remotely correct. People are too busy to bother entering data more than they have to. I was hoping for a method that uses known good data.
Marius: Thanks, but like my comment to Jean, that site is never going to be correct. For example, I have run 6 BBSs for several years now and I didn't even know about the site. And currently it lists only 7 gateways in the United States. We have more than that just in our one county in California. Not very useful.
For AMPRnet: What do you all think of the following logic? 1) Take the number of gateways listed in the portal. 2) Multiply by some factor to account for dead entries. This factor would be less than 1. But it's probably not much less than 1 since we just went through the transition to the portal and that must have cleaned out lots of dead stuff, right? So, maybe 90% are good, or a factor of 0.9? 3) Multiply by another factor representing the number of BBSs per gateway. This factor is greater than 1. But I think maybe it's not much greater than one. For example, we used to have 4 BBSs behind one gateway. But in order to gateway inbound e-mail without violating FCC Part 97 (discussed here long ago), we added Internet connections at each site. Once we had Internet at each site, we made each machine its own gateway. So I'm thinking the factor is really close to 1, maybe 1.1. 4) Given both factors, I conclude that a reasonable estimate of the number of BBSs reachable via AMPRnet is approximately equal to the number of gateways in the portal. Thoughts?
For the BBS Network: I still don't have a clue as to how to estimate this.
Michael N6MEF
On Sun, 2013-12-08 at 06:28 -0800, Michael E. Fox - N6MEF wrote:
A survey site is never going to be even remotely correct. People are too busy to bother entering data more than they have to. I was hoping for a method that uses known good data.
For the BBS Network: I still don't have a clue as to how to estimate this.
You basically answered your own question above. There really isn't a true and accurate way of calculating figures, especially those who aren't using ipencap or those who can't use ipencap. What about MARS systems? Most don't use ipencap but I know some that do.
What is the presentation you're drafting designed to achieve as a goal? I'm sure you can come up with a best guess effort for numbers you seek. Stations come and go daily... I don't think there is such a thing as accurate numbers based on that factor alone. You can only make a best guess.
Cheers.
Brain N1URO
How can I contact you via n1uro.ampr.org does not work from me to you ...
On Sun, Dec 08, 2013 at 06:28:49AM -0800, Michael E. Fox - N6MEF wrote:
- Multiply by some factor to account for dead entries. This factor would
be less than 1. But it's probably not much less than 1 since we just went through the transition to the portal and that must have cleaned out lots of dead stuff, right? So, maybe 90% are good, or a factor of 0.9?
The dead gateways info hasn't been cleaned out yet, so the factor will probably have to be less than 50%. - Brian
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Brian Kantor -
Brian Rogers -
Janusz Przybylski SP1LOP -
Jean Létourneau -
Marius Petrescu -
Michael E. Fox - N6MEF -
William Lewis