20 Jun
2015
20 Jun
'15
8:53 p.m.
Subject:
Re: [44net] portal purge
From:
Don Fanning <don(a)00100100.net>
Date:
06/20/2015 01:40 AM
To:
AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu>
There is so much cruft in the DNS tables
that I imported the information into a database and ran the FCC
database against it. There were roughly 1800 entries out of 3700-ish
that matched expired/cancelled/revoked callsigns. And that's just for
the US alone - not including active licensees who just lost interest
in 44net. As BrianK would point out, there is no way that the DNS
table should be this big.
I do regular checks of the registered addresses in the 44.137.0.0/16 subnet against
the list of callsigns published by our local authority. I also delete registrations
when
"silent key" announcements appear in the club magazine.
And a few weeks ago I deleted all dangling MX and CNAME records, most of them
for US hams. (see discussion on the list)
It appears to have been standard practice to create MX records for new registered
addresses, and to not delete them when addresses are deleted.
Do you have valid "callsign change" tables in the US? A problem for me is that
there is no official information on that from our authority, apparently for privacy
reasons. So sometimes I delete an address because the callsign is no longer valid,
to find later that the operator has changed to a higher license class or vanity
callsign. And not everyone changing their callsign notifies me.
Rob
21 Jun
21 Jun
1:55 a.m.
New subject: portal purge
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Rob Janssen <pe1chl(a)amsat.org> wrote:
Do you have valid "callsign change" tables
in the US?
Yes. The FCC publishes a few set of tables in each type of license
(common carriers, broadcasters, amateurs, business, etc..).
One is a list of callsigns and dates attributing to start and end
effective dates along with last change
Another is a list of actions attributed to a callsign. ie: callsign
changes, revocations, expirations, class upgrade, etc..
And another is the mailing/physical address table.
It gets a little convoluted because for example, I have a vanity call.
But my original callsign is still active because my vanity call is
tied to it. Therefore, I have two callsigns but technically should
only operate with the one. Tho, come to think of it, I should be able
to operate with either - (anyone got a Part 97 rule regarding this?).
I'd imagine it's the same way in other countries where some operators
have two licenses for whatever reasons. Then there are trustee
stations like W1AW who technically is attributed to one particular
trustee with a valid license - those are easy enough to find.
And not everyone changing their callsign notifies me.
And there in lies the problem. Scale it up globally and you can see
why we would need to force people to check in from time to time.
2:54 a.m.
New subject: portal purge
The Canadian system is even more vague, as callsigns do not expire
(unless you do, and even then the government doesn't keep good track of
them - someone has to tell them), and yes, some people have multiple
call signs. I live/work in the US now, but still operate under a
Canadian callsign (need to go sit those Extra exams - so many things to
do - so little time!).
I don't think there's a problem in getting people to check in yearly,
but I agree with the idea of only starting to warn people 90 days before
expiration.
Getting quarterly messages will only cause them to be ignored, in my
experience, they become neither 'important' nor 'urgent'. I've worked
on
many user registration and accounting systems over the years, and I've
found that the systems that start warnings when it's close enough to the
expiration date that it has become 'important' to the user and long
enough away that it hasn't yet become 'urgent' work best.
I've also found that it's good to have a 'soft' and 'hard'
cutoff.
Even the HR system that I deal with sometimes has issues (like late
renewal of individuals' contracts), so if the account isn't for
something serious, I give some hang time.
Given that this is truly non-serious, a soft hang time of 4 weeks (after
which entries get disabled) and then a hard cutoff of six months would
make things easier for both sides the data could continued to be stored
off line, it doesn't really impact anyone except a little bit of hard
disk space). Users have a soft landing, and can (after their system
stops working) just sign in again and get 'the power turned back on',
and its less overhead for the maintainers - no need to re-enter data
when the user finally realises that the lights are out (at least in most
cases). Hams can wander off for several years, and then go - oh, time to
get started again! - and then reconnect with the community. Anything
that can be done to make this painless is a good thing. I *would* say
that entries and subnets would be subject to reallocation after the six
month hard cutoff, so anyone who leaves things too long may need to
reconfigure their network.
I'll be happy to help with the programming, I've done this kind of work
many times. I also program in SQL, Perl, PHP, Python, C, *nix shell(s),
and *way* too many other languages since 1972 - including at least a
dozen assemblers, but let's not go there! - full resumé upon request.
(No, I'm not looking for another day job, I have one! :-)
- Richard
On 6/20/15 5:55 PM, Don Fanning wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Rob Janssen <pe1chl(a)amsat.org> wrote:
Do you have valid "callsign change"
tables in the US?
Yes. The FCC publishes a few set of tables in each type of
license
(common carriers, broadcasters, amateurs, business, etc..).
One is a list of callsigns and dates attributing to start and end
effective dates along with last change
Another is a list of actions attributed to a callsign. ie: callsign
changes, revocations, expirations, class upgrade, etc..
And another is the mailing/physical address table.
It gets a little convoluted because for example, I have a vanity call.
But my original callsign is still active because my vanity call is
tied to it. Therefore, I have two callsigns but technically should
only operate with the one. Tho, come to think of it, I should be able
to operate with either - (anyone got a Part 97 rule regarding this?).
I'd imagine it's the same way in other countries where some operators
have two licenses for whatever reasons. Then there are trustee
stations like W1AW who technically is attributed to one particular
trustee with a valid license - those are easy enough to find.
And not everyone changing their callsign notifies
me.
And there in lies the problem. Scale it up globally and you can see
why we would need to force people to check in from time to time.
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
7:02 a.m.
New subject: portal purge
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Richard Chycoski <ve7cvs(a)chycoski.com> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
The Canadian system is even more vague, as callsigns do not expire (unless
you do, and even then the government doesn't keep good track of them -
someone has to tell them), and yes, some people have multiple call signs. I
live/work in the US now, but still operate under a Canadian callsign (need
to go sit those Extra exams - so many things to do - so little time!).
Yeah, I was afraid of that... I got a feeling it will be like that for
most countries as well.
I don't think there's a problem in getting
people to check in yearly, but I
agree with the idea of only starting to warn people 90 days before
expiration.
I as well would agree with the 90 day soft notices. Could also use it
as a opportunity to opt in to the listserv which gives a mail every
month as a soft ping. May give people incentive to stay active and
explore hamwan/mesh/ax.25 architecture here. Change is in the air and
I suspect with that a growth in hobby related wireless data
communications - especially as the maker movement advances. All we
should be concerned with is interoperability and address routing.
I found it interesting that the AMPR gateway only allowed traffic for
IP's registered in DNS. Is there a reason for this? Especially as
we're starting to subnet to larger blocks and move away from
geographically connected networks.
Users have a soft landing, and can (after their system
stops working) just
sign in again and get 'the power turned back on', and its less overhead for
the maintainers - no need to re-enter data when the user finally realises
that the lights are out (at least in most cases).
This seem reasonable. In a way, this would be the fuse after the time
based dead man's switch is triggered.
I *would* say that entries and subnets would be
subject to reallocation after the six month hard cutoff, so anyone who
leaves things too long may need to reconfigure their network.
I know I would after 6 months. I try not to collect machine anymore
but I do generate plenty of e-waste.
Hams can wander off for several years, and then go -
oh, time to get started
again! - and then reconnect with the community.
I know I have and it happens to everybody.
Anything that can be done to make this painless is a
good thing.
So, BrianK mentioned that about 5 years ago, a time stamp was added to
the DNS table and recorded when a record was updated.
What if we were to import everything in, set a incremental TTL on
records so that the newest records had one or two years but the oldest
records had maybe 3-9 months. 3 months for anything over 5 years and
progressively more over the next 4. So that in essence, in around a
year or two, the problem cleans itself up.
When the TTL on records is reached, it goes into the soft landing for
6 months then after 6 months it is wiped completely for reallocation.
I don't even think RBL/spamlists tend to keep records for a year or
two. Even if it did, age weighs into it's bayes filtering.
It wouldn't be a 'rip the bandaid off' transition - but there will be
some pain for people as the hairs are pulled.
It would also get those older network operators to ping in rather than
treat it as inheritable space. One can't own a frequency, but they
certainly can park a call sign for generations.
For it to work however some of the old networks are going to have to
check into the portal and ping their network space. If those regional
coordinators are on top of their allocations, maybe they can register
their /16 or whatever then notify their network. Then we can put in a
feature to transfer allocations to other hams like you can with domain
names and registrar transfers.. I know in Europe, they got their
network maps dialed in. Much more than we have here in North America.
We'd just need to reach a reasonable consensus, announce it here and
on the website, do the work then let it bake.
I'll be happy to help with the programming,
I've done this kind of work many
times. I also program in SQL, Perl, PHP, Python, C, *nix shell(s), and *way*
too many other languages since 1972 - including at least a dozen assemblers,
but let's not go there! - full resumé upon request. (No, I'm not looking for
another day job, I have one! :-)
I'm just a Sr. SE with a CCNP. But most of the day, I'm known as
'Jack'. My manager sells me as a DevOp. And my company's mission is
to bring joy to the world through innovation. Really, I want the
world we were promised by Pop. Sci. decades ago.
I'm sure I can introduce you to Chris who maintains the portal and the
svn. Maybe we can both sell him on Github. ;)
11:52 a.m.
New subject: portal purge
Not true, they do expire at your 101 Birthday!
They are very optimistic here that we all get older :-)
Bob VE3TOK
On 15-06-20 09:54 PM, Richard Chycoski wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
The Canadian system is even more vague, as callsigns do not expire
(unless you do, and even then the government doesn't keep good track
of them - someone has to tell them), and yes, some people have
multiple call signs. I live/work in the US now, but still operate
under a Canadian callsign (need to go sit those Extra exams - so many
things to do - so little time!).
2:47 p.m.
New subject: portal purge
In Internet years, that's forever! :-)
(I didn't know that they actually expired them at all!)
- Richard, VE7CVS
On 6/21/15 3:52 AM, Boudewijn (Bob) Tenty wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
Not true, they do expire at your 101 Birthday!
They are very optimistic here that we all get older :-)
Bob VE3TOK
On 15-06-20 09:54 PM, Richard Chycoski wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
The Canadian system is even more vague, as callsigns do not expire
(unless you do, and even then the government doesn't keep good track
of them - someone has to tell them), and yes, some people have
multiple call signs. I live/work in the US now, but still operate
under a Canadian callsign (need to go sit those Extra exams - so many
things to do - so little time!).
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
3250
days inactive
3251
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Boudewijn (Bob) Tenty -
Don Fanning -
Richard Chycoski -
Rob Janssen