12 Oct
2020
12 Oct
'20
3:58 a.m.
If you're offering to organize, create and
open-source a conferencing
system that does what Zoom does AND SCALES UP, be my guest! You could
even apply to us for a grant...
I don't know how wide its coverage is, but here in Europe we have a network
of Asterisk PABXes on AMPRnet that have interconnecting trunks between them
that allow you to call anyone on the network on their roaming number.
Phone numbers are allocated based on the callsign (using a scheme based on
the letters printed on DTMF keypads. based on my callsign, my phone number
is 713210234253 for "1st letter on key 7, 2nd letter on key 3, digit 1, 3rd
letter on key 2, 2nd letter on key 4, 3rd letter on key 5" giving PE1CHL ).
The DUNDi trunk protocol distributes the information about the home server
for each number across the network, so all Asterisk servers know how to
route the calls.
It is easy to host a conference on one or more of the Asterisk servers and
have everyone dial in to that. There is such a conference running on my
local
server where I have my IP phone connected all the time.
I think such systems can do low-bandwidth video as well, but I have never
tried that. For audio it works perfectly.
Seriously, this touches on one of my pet topics: IP
multicasting. A huge
amount of work went into the development of IP multicast protocols in
the 1980s and 1990s, yet nearly all of it has been stillborn. It sees
use only in walled gardens like AT&T Uverse (an IPTV over VDSL service
in the US) and in degenerate form for intra-net resource discovery on LANs.
I agree that would be much more efficient than having the basic star-type
structure where everyone gets the same stream from one server. That
would be one thing that could be implemented in AMPRnet to show the world
that it really has advantages.
For phone quality voice and the number of attendees we would expect, running
this over AMPRnet in the star configuration should be no issue.
Rob
12 Oct
12 Oct
11:04 a.m.
New subject: Thanks to everyone for a good 44net community call!
On 10/11/20 13:58, Rob Janssen via 44Net wrote:
I agree that would be much more efficient than having the basic star-type
structure where everyone gets the same stream from one server. That
would be one thing that could be implemented in AMPRnet to show the world
that it really has advantages.
Exactly my thinking.
Hams (and open source people in general) have a secret weapon: we're
willing to work on projects just because we find them technically
interesting. We don't have to first convince senior management that they
can soon make a lot of money from it. Better yet, we don't have to care
if we destroy somebody's existing business model.
Case in point: the Internet. It's actually kind of amazing that I was
allowed to spend so much time in the IETF and promoting IP back at
Bellcore in the 1980s given that I was really working to destroy my own
company. I got strong support from my immediate management, but we were
probably lucky in failing to get senior telephone company execs to
understand the Internet. When they finally did, in the late 1990s, it
was too late. Bellcore's remains are owned by Ericsson (I think) and the
building in New Jersey where I worked in the 1980s was sold long ago.
The situation was much the same with Xerox PARC (see "Fumbling the Future").
A really good, scalable wide area IP multicast architecture has the
potential to destroy a lot of existing business models, including
content distribution networks (CDNs), many commercial conferencing
services (like Zoom) and maybe even some mega application-level services
like Facebook, Twitter and Youtube. They've become so huge and
successful in part because there are strong economies of scale in the
resources needed to throw terabits of fiber and buildings stuffed with
computers at the task of centrally replicating and transmitting unicast
packets. But if those packets no longer have to be centrally replicated...
For phone quality voice and the number of attendees we
would expect,
running
this over AMPRnet in the star configuration should be no issue.
Well....yes. But that's not the point. We need to show that wide-area
multicasting can be done, and that'd be easiest if you start with a
light load like voice.
13 Oct
13 Oct
2:21 a.m.
New subject: Thanks to everyone for a good 44net community call!
On 10/11/20 4:58 PM, Rob Janssen wrote:
I don't know how wide its coverage is, but here in
Europe we have a network
of Asterisk PABXes on AMPRnet that have interconnecting trunks between them
that allow you to call anyone on the network on their roaming number.
Phone numbers are allocated based on the callsign (using a scheme based on
the letters printed on DTMF keypads. based on my callsign, my phone number
is 713210234253 for "1st letter on key 7, 2nd letter on key 3, digit 1, 3rd
letter on key 2, 2nd letter on key 4, 3rd letter on key 5" giving PE1CHL ).
The DUNDi trunk protocol distributes the information about the home server
for each number across the network, so all Asterisk servers know how to
route the calls.
It is easy to host a conference on one or more of the Asterisk servers and
have everyone dial in to that. There is such a conference running on my
local
server where I have my IP phone connected all the time.
I think such systems can do low-bandwidth video as well, but I have never
tried that. For audio it works perfectly.
We also have a network of PBX's tied
together here in the US but using
AREDN Mesh connectivity. Phone numbers are a flat 4-digits for local
calling. For wide area calls, the person's (or service) 3-digit area
code is prepended to the 4-digit local number. There are around 40 pbx's
scattered around the world on this network. There is a White Pages
directory to determine a person's (or service) phone number.
It would be interesting to try to connect the two systems together.
73, Mark, N2MH
MeshPhone: 973-2111
MeshMail: n2mh(a)n2mh-mailhub.local.mesh
MeshDMR: Talk Group 6374
6:30 a.m.
New subject: Thanks to everyone for a good 44net community call!
There is a network on Internet that could be moved --
https://hamshackhotline.com/
Here in Washington State there is a 44-net based system on Hamwan (
hamwan.org)
A good project would be to setup an ENUM service to bring them together.
https://www.voip-info.org/enum/
On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 12:23 PM Mark Herson, N2MH via 44Net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 10/11/20 4:58 PM, Rob Janssen wrote:
--
------------------------------
John D. Hays - K7VE
Kingston, WA
<http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
<http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>
I don't know how wide its coverage is, but
here in Europe we have a
network
of Asterisk PABXes on AMPRnet that have
interconnecting trunks between
them
that allow you to call anyone on the network on
their roaming number.
Phone numbers are allocated based on the callsign (using a scheme based
on
the letters printed on DTMF keypads. based on my
callsign, my phone
number
is 713210234253 for "1st letter on key 7,
2nd letter on key 3, digit 1,
3rd
letter on key 2, 2nd letter on key 4, 3rd letter
on key 5" giving PE1CHL
).
The DUNDi trunk protocol distributes the
information about the home
server
for each number across the network, so all
Asterisk servers know how to
route the calls.
It is easy to host a conference on one or more of the Asterisk servers
and
have everyone dial in to that. There is such a
conference running on my
local
server where I have my IP phone connected all the time.
I think such systems can do low-bandwidth video as well, but I have never
tried that. For audio it works perfectly.
We also have a network of PBX's tied
together here in the US but using
AREDN Mesh connectivity. Phone numbers are a flat 4-digits for local
calling. For wide area calls, the person's (or service) 3-digit area
code is prepended to the 4-digit local number. There are around 40 pbx's
scattered around the world on this network. There is a White Pages
directory to determine a person's (or service) phone number.
It would be interesting to try to connect the two systems together.
73, Mark, N2MH
MeshPhone: 973-2111
MeshMail: n2mh(a)n2mh-mailhub.local.mesh
MeshDMR: Talk Group 6374
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19 Oct
19 Oct
4:24 p.m.
New subject: Thanks to everyone for a good 44net community call!
Hi Rob,
Is the European Asterisk/DUNDI/AMPRNet voip network you describe below
documented somewhere? I tried to google around but did not find anything.
Can you provide a link?
On 2020-10-11 22:58, Rob Janssen via 44Net wrote:
If you're
offering to organize, create and open-source a conferencing
system that does what Zoom does AND SCALES UP, be my guest! You could
even apply to us for a grant...
I don't know how wide its coverage is, but here in Europe we have a
network
of Asterisk PABXes on AMPRnet that have interconnecting trunks between
them
that allow you to call anyone on the network on their roaming number.
Phone numbers are allocated based on the callsign (using a scheme
based on
the letters printed on DTMF keypads. based on my callsign, my phone
number
is 713210234253 for "1st letter on key 7, 2nd letter on key 3, digit
1, 3rd
letter on key 2, 2nd letter on key 4, 3rd letter on key 5" giving
PE1CHL ).
The DUNDi trunk protocol distributes the information about the home
server
for each number across the network, so all Asterisk servers know how to
route the calls.
It is easy to host a conference on one or more of the Asterisk servers
and
have everyone dial in to that. There is such a conference running on
my local
server where I have my IP phone connected all the time.
I think such systems can do low-bandwidth video as well, but I have never
tried that. For audio it works perfectly.
Seriously, this touches on one of my pet topics:
IP multicasting. A huge
amount of work went into the development of IP multicast protocols in
the 1980s and 1990s, yet nearly all of it has been stillborn. It sees
use only in walled gardens like AT&T Uverse (an IPTV over VDSL service
in the US) and in degenerate form for intra-net resource discovery on
LANs.
I agree that would be much more efficient than having the basic star-type
structure where everyone gets the same stream from one server. That
would be one thing that could be implemented in AMPRnet to show the world
that it really has advantages.
For phone quality voice and the number of attendees we would expect,
running
this over AMPRnet in the star configuration should be no issue.
Rob
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4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Bjorn Pehrson -
K7VE - John -
Mark Herson, N2MH -
Phil Karn -
Rob Janssen