Subject: Re: [44net] Verifying the identities of IP coordinators From: Bill Vodall wa7nwp@gmail.com Date: 01/14/2016 10:19 PM
To: AMPRNet working group 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu
When someone applies for an address...
Transient users don't need static or even real IP addresses. We could re-invent DHCP...
I am firmly against that. Contrary to the Internet as it is now, we are not a collection of transient users that only use a couple of centralized services, but we are all peers that should be able to both use and offer services and make connections in all directions. That is what makes us different from ordinary internet users, and using dynamic or even translated addresses kills all that and makes the whole AMPRnet superfluous.
Rob
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org wrote:
That is what makes us different from ordinary internet users, and using dynamic or even translated addresses kills all that and makes the whole AMPRnet superfluous.
Rob
I beg to differ. I agree with the NAT position, but there are definitely cases for the use of dynamically allocated addresses.
Here is one: D-STAR data protocol encapsulates Ethernet frames inside of D-STAR frames, in turn those can contain IP frames. If I am in a mobile, driving down a highway and using a series of access points, then receiving a new 44.x.x.x address via DHCP from those access points keeps me connected for services I am using. If that DHCP also supports Dynamic DNS, then my hostname doesn't need to change if I am offering services. E.g. I could be jeep.k7ve.ampr.org and move from 44.24.10.1 to 44.24.100.48 to 44.24.201.12 and continue to use services as well as provide services to others.
I agree - there is a place for temporary addresses for mobile/portable/temporary connectivity.
Even NAT/PAT could have it's uses - not to provide service like the current Internet providers who are stingy with addresses, but again for mobile/portable applications. I wouldn't rule it out - and it really can't be prevented, anyone can NAT/PAT with existing hardware - but no one should be forced to go there for 'regular' service in the way that home Internet connectivity has gone.
Not all devices connected to the 44 net provide services - some are just consumers that don't need a fixed address (or may be that way when mobile). The devices that do need a fixed address should get them.
You *can* have your cake and eat it too! :-)
- Richard, VE7CVS
On 1/15/16 1:05 PM, K7VE - John wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org wrote:
That is what makes us different from ordinary internet users, and using dynamic or even translated addresses kills all that and makes the whole AMPRnet superfluous.
Rob
I beg to differ. I agree with the NAT position, but there are definitely cases for the use of dynamically allocated addresses.
Here is one: D-STAR data protocol encapsulates Ethernet frames inside of D-STAR frames, in turn those can contain IP frames. If I am in a mobile, driving down a highway and using a series of access points, then receiving a new 44.x.x.x address via DHCP from those access points keeps me connected for services I am using. If that DHCP also supports Dynamic DNS, then my hostname doesn't need to change if I am offering services. E.g. I could be jeep.k7ve.ampr.org and move from 44.24.10.1 to 44.24.100.48 to 44.24.201.12 and continue to use services as well as provide services to others.
Now really...
You actually want a dynamic DNS? We can not manage the regular DNS entries in the portal yet. But what is stopping you to send a DNS robot update mail on IP change?
Marius, YO2LOJ
If you delegate DNS for subnets, the subnets can run Dynamic DNS if they like. If it's over RF, the encapsulating protocol (AX.25, D-STAR, etc.) can provide the callsign.
Those who can't provide that service to RF/Mobile users, won't.... Those who can provide it, will.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Marius Petrescu marius@yo2loj.ro wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Now really...
You actually want a dynamic DNS? We can not manage the regular DNS entries in the portal yet. But what is stopping you to send a DNS robot update mail on IP change?
Marius, YO2LOJ
44Net mailing list 44Net@hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 04:36:55PM -0800, K7VE - John wrote:
If you delegate DNS for subnets, the subnets can run Dynamic DNS if they like. If it's over RF, the encapsulating protocol (AX.25, D-STAR, etc.) can provide the callsign.
Keep in mind that any dynamic assignment scheme should keep a logfile or other record of who had which IP address when, so that problems can be tracked down, even if the assignment is no longer in effect. - Brian
Individual subnets should be able to choose to be part of dynamic DNS allocation - or not - this is especially useful for mobile stations.
And yes - logging is key, to track down issues.
Rules could be set up, e.g., only allow patterns like: ve7cvs-mobile1.ampr.org styles of addresses for dynamic DNS? Perhaps a different pattern, but the idea being that transient addresses would have a defined pattern for dynamic DNS?
It needs to be easy to connect, but also easy to debug.
- Richard, VE7CVS
On 1/15/16 2:40 PM, Marius Petrescu wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Now really...
You actually want a dynamic DNS? We can not manage the regular DNS entries in the portal yet. But what is stopping you to send a DNS robot update mail on IP change?
Marius, YO2LOJ
Hi there Did I understand correct that the RIP system we use is RIP over the Tunneling ? Or in other words we need at first to have Tunnel to AMPR Router
and only then the RIP data can pass through ?
Any Info Welcome Thanks Forward Ronen - 4Z4ZQ http://www.ronen.org
-
Brian Kantor -
K7VE - John -
Marius Petrescu -
R P -
Richard Chycoski -
Rob Janssen