6 Feb
2013
6 Feb
'13
9:49 p.m.
44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu wrote:
the DNS functionality is a separate module and is not
tied to the name of the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP address and callsign for
legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement)
Rob
6 Feb
6 Feb
10:04 p.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
On 6 Feb 2013, at 21:49, Rob Janssen wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu wrote:
Perhaps in the US, I don't know, I'm from the UK, not every country has such
licence requirements. Have you looked at the ampr.org hosts file recently? There are a lot
of A records mapping 44/8 IPs that are clearly not based on callsigns.
We are also allocating subnets out to people experimenting with BGP announcements and
other projects that will require more flexible arrangements.
Chris
the DNS functionality is a separate module and is
not tied to the name of the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP address and callsign
for legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement) 
10:29 p.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
Maybe these oddball DNS names should "include" the callsign somewhere.
I do personally know of an instance in 2005/2006 where there were some
non-amateur servers in North America using 44 addresses!
Perhaps in the US, I don't know, I'm from the UK, not every country has such
licence requirements. Have you looked at the ampr.org hosts file recently?
There are a lot of A records mapping 44/8 IPs that are clearly not based on
callsigns.
We are also allocating subnets out to people experimenting with BGP
announcements and other projects that will require more flexible arrangements.
--
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 147.360/107.2 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org
NYDXA SWL & Scanner Net Wed. @ 9PM 147.360/107.2 PL
http://www.n2nov.net
"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)
"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan
the DNS functionality is a separate module and is not
tied to the name of
the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP address
and callsign for legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement) 
11:01 p.m.
New subject: Co-ordinator: Request Allocation, The network overlaps an existing entry
Chris,
As a coordinator I got a request that had some problems and I wrote a
note about the problems and clicked reject, according to the
instructions on the web page.
What happened was not what I expected.
Instead of acknowledging my action, the reject was blocked (the note was
not sent) and I got the following message in red
under the test Co-ordinator: Request Allocation
"The network overlaps an existing entry"
Which actually was part of the problem in the first place.
I got the reject accepted only after changing the request.
Why would I have to do that when I was going to reject it anyway and
rather let the requesting person change it.
Bjorn
10:38 p.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
Greetings,
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Rob Janssen wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu wrote:
Not that I am aware of. The IP traffic has NEVER required any callsign
identification. Nor has the TCP traffic. Transmissions over the air are
always carried atop layer 2, which is the AX.25 Link Layer protocol. The
transmitters on each end of every radio link use the callsign to identify
each and every frame sent over the air. Our callsigns are used in AX.25
Link Layer in the same way that MAC addresses are used in the 802.3
ethernet layer 2 / link layer protocol. Take a look at your ARP table to
confirm this.
The "transmitters" must be identified, and they may identify *within*
the published protocol (in this case AX.25). This is all that the FCC
requires.
--- Jay Nugent WB8TKL
Michigan IP coordinator (44.102/16)
the DNS functionality is a separate module and
is not tied to the name of
the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP address and
callsign for legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement) 
10:50 p.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
D-STAR DD (Ethernet over D-STAR) Identifies in D-STAR frame, which
encapsulates the Ethernet packet, which incapsulates the IP packet.
AX.25 Identifies at the AX.25 frame level.
HSMM uses ICMP or other methods to identify in the clear (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_multimedia_radio#Identification)
In the US a transmitter must identify every 10 minutes during a
'communication' and at the end of a 'communication'
The network should not enforce the most restrictive country's rules -- that
is the obligation of the control operators of transmitters in that country.
DNS and reverse DNS should map the FQDN of the station along with its IP
address. There are provisions in the TOS to delete allocations if it is
abused.
------------------------------
John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
<http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
<http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Jay Nugent <jjn(a)nuge.com> wrote:
Not that I am aware of. The IP traffic has NEVER required any callsign
identification. Nor has the TCP traffic. Transmissions over the air are
always carried atop layer 2, which is the AX.25 Link Layer protocol. The
transmitters on each end of every radio link use the callsign to identify
each and every frame sent over the air. Our callsigns are used in AX.25
Link Layer in the same way that MAC addresses are used in the 802.3
ethernet layer 2 / link layer protocol. Take a look at your ARP table to
confirm this.
The "transmitters" must be identified, and they may identify *within*
the published protocol (in this case AX.25). This is all that the FCC
requires.
--- Jay Nugent WB8TKL
Michigan IP coordinator (44.102/16)
11:09 p.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Jay Nugent <jjn(a)nuge.com> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
______________________________**_________________
Greetings,
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Rob Janssen wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
This is fine if you are using AX.25 for link layer media, but I don't see
AX.25 being the only link layer used on AMPRNET by a long shot. 802.11 is
growing in use and other link layer technologies exist. While info from
DNS may not meet a requirement for Identification requirement, having the
callsign of the party responsible (either directly as in the case of a
gateway, or indirectly as in the case of an ISP) for the host required as
part of the FQDN is helpful in tracing network issues.
AF6EP
______________________________**_________________
44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.**edu <44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu>wrote;wrote:
Not that I am aware of. The IP traffic has NEVER required any callsign
identification. Nor has the TCP traffic. Transmissions over the air are
always carried atop layer 2, which is the AX.25 Link Layer protocol. The
transmitters on each end of every radio link use the callsign to identify
each and every frame sent over the air. Our callsigns are used in AX.25
Link Layer in the same way that MAC addresses are used in the 802.3
ethernet layer 2 / link layer protocol. Take a look at your ARP table to
confirm this.
The "transmitters" must be identified, and they may identify *within*
the published protocol (in this case AX.25). This is all that the FCC
requires.
--- Jay Nugent WB8TKL
Michigan IP coordinator (44.102/16)
the DNS functionality is a separate module and
is not tied to the name
of
the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP address
and callsign for legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement)
7 Feb
7 Feb
12:21 a.m.
New subject: amprnet dns zones
On Feb 6, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Eric Fort wrote:
This is fine if you are using AX.25 for link layer
media, but I don't see AX.25 being the only link layer used on AMPRNET by a long shot.
802.11 is growing in use and other link layer technologies exist. While info from DNS
may not meet a requirement for Identification requirement, having the callsign of the
party responsible (either directly as in the case of a gateway, or indirectly as in the
case of an ISP) for the host required as part of the FQDN is helpful in tracing network
issues.
This concern is usually addressed through information in the whois database, which
includes, among other things, administrative and technical contacts for domain names. This
allows domain names to reflect what the service is, not who runs it or how it's
connected. This is how the internet and most local networks work, because this isolates
network topology changes and administrative changes from the users of the service, who
don't care about these details.
12:21 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
Now that the responsible parties for each subnet are starting to be tracked
in a centralized database, perhaps it would be a good idea to connect it to
an rwhois service. That way anyone can look up who is responsible for an
AMPRNet IP in the exact same way they would for any other IP address.
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Eric Fort <eric.fort(a)gmail.com> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Jay Nugent <jjn(a)nuge.com> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
______________________________**_________________
Greetings,
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Rob Janssen wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
This is fine if you are using AX.25 for link layer media, but I don't see
AX.25 being the only link layer used on AMPRNET by a long shot. 802.11 is
growing in use and other link layer technologies exist. While info from
DNS may not meet a requirement for Identification requirement, having the
callsign of the party responsible (either directly as in the case of a
gateway, or indirectly as in the case of an ISP) for the host required as
part of the FQDN is helpful in tracing network issues.
AF6EP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
______________________________**_________________
44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.**edu <44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu>wrote;wrote:
Not that I am aware of. The IP traffic has NEVER required any
callsign identification. Nor has the TCP traffic. Transmissions over the
air are always carried atop layer 2, which is the AX.25 Link Layer
protocol. The transmitters on each end of every radio link use the
callsign to identify each and every frame sent over the air. Our callsigns
are used in AX.25 Link Layer in the same way that MAC addresses are used in
the 802.3 ethernet layer 2 / link layer protocol. Take a look at your ARP
table to confirm this.
The "transmitters" must be identified, and they may identify *within*
the published protocol (in this case AX.25). This is all that the FCC
requires.
--- Jay Nugent WB8TKL
Michigan IP coordinator (44.102/16)
the DNS functionality is a separate module and
is not tied to the name
of
the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP
address and callsign for legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement)
12:40 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:21:47 -0800, "Cory (NQ1E)" <cory(a)nq1e.hm> wrote:
Now that the responsible parties for each subnet are
starting to be tracked
in a centralized database, perhaps it would be a good idea to connect it to
an rwhois service. That way anyone can look up who is responsible for an
AMPRNet IP in the exact same way they would for any other IP address.
Is anyone running whois daemons on the Internet anymore? Last time I tried doing
whois on a name it failed. The spammers have made it impossible to put up a
whois because they mined them all for valid emails so organizations had to
abandon it.
12:43 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
whois on a name it failed. The spammers have made it
impossible to put up a
whois because they mined them all for valid emails so organizations had to
abandon it.
Could it be filtered to only allow access from 44 net clients....
Bill, WA7NWP
1:05 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:43:53 -0800, Bill Vodall <wa7nwp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I suppose, but then how would a ham who needed to contact a coordinator to
obtain a net-44 address get the coordinator's contact information?
I only raised the issue to point out the possibility of exploitation but I may
have been confusing whois with finger. Whois is for domain information so it has
limited use for spammers, finger was the bigger issue years ago.
--
Geoff Joy - ke6qh -
AmprNet IP Address Coordinator for San Bernardino & Riverside Counties.
geoff(a)windomeister.com
whois on a
name it failed. The spammers have made it impossible to put up a
whois because they mined them all for valid emails so organizations had to
abandon it.
Could it be filtered to only allow access from 44 net clients....
Bill, WA7NWP 
1:25 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
On Wed, Feb 06, 2013 at 05:05:43PM -0800, Geoff Joy wrote:
I suppose, but then how would a ham who needed to
contact a coordinator to
obtain a net-44 address get the coordinator's contact information?
Through the portal - some sort of 'send a message' or 'contact me'
function
could provide that without revealing email addresses to spammers.
- Brian
1:06 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
On Feb 6, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Bill Vodall wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
It could. Or, it could just not contain email addresses. The query result is just free
form text, so it could include just a call-sign.
whois on a name it failed. The spammers have made
it impossible to put up a
whois because they mined them all for valid emails so organizations had to
abandon it.
Could it be filtered to only allow access from 44 net clients....
1:20 a.m.
New subject: whois/rwhois
We're looking into a whois/rwhois service, but there are issues of privacy
and spam to be considered. My first thought is to make a lookup available
only to someone logged into the portal site.
- Brian
7:13 a.m.
New subject: whois/rwhois
My thoughts are people probably should not be announcing BGP prefixes on
the Internet if they have a issue of not giving out their contact info. I
believe the initial intent of rwhois with regard to AMPRNet is only for people
who are announcing prefixes via BGP. Not the small "sub" assignments within said
announced BGP prefixes.
I agree that if people want to drill down deeper into the announcements
they should either Email the person responsible for that announcement (contact
from rwhois) or if it's a AMPRNet user then they can log into the portal and
view it also if AMPRNet will allow that.
Tim Osburn
www.osburn.com
W7RSZ
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Brian Kantor wrote:
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:20:23 -0800
From: Brian Kantor <Brian(a)ucsd.edu>
Reply-To: AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu>
To: AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [44net] whois/rwhois
We're looking into a whois/rwhois service, but there are issues of privacy and
spam to be considered. My first thought is to make a lookup available only to
someone logged into the portal site.
- Brian
11:31 a.m.
New subject: whois/rwhois
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Tim Osburn wrote:
My thoughts are people probably should not be
announcing BGP prefixes
on the Internet if they have a issue of not giving out their contact info. I
believe the initial intent of rwhois with regard to AMPRNet is only for
people who are announcing prefixes via BGP. Not the small "sub" assignments
within said announced BGP prefixes.
Actually that's an RIR requirement regardless of whether the address space
is even routed publicly. BGP has nothing to do with it - only that the
prefix is shorter than a /29 - and the LIR has a choice of either SWIPing
the assignment or putting it in rwhois. Moreover, net-44 is a legacy
resource which I don't think is legally governed by any specific RIR
policies (ie. I don't think we've signed on to any legacy RSAs).
However, a (r)whois lookup facility would not be a bad idea.
Antonio Querubin
e-mail: tony(a)lavanauts.org
xmpp: antonioquerubin(a)gmail.com
5:38 p.m.
New subject: whois/rwhois
whois/rwhois listing,* including an email address*, of the responsible
contact for an allocation *should be mandatory and available publicly*.
If the net manager has "I can't stand hitting delete on SPAM" disorder,
they can setup an email address specifically for this function (and check
it daily) using something like a free gmail account, which has pretty good
SPAM filtering in the first place.
------------------------------
John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
<http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
<http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:31 AM, Antonio Querubin <tony(a)lavanauts.org> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
______________________________**_________________
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Tim Osburn wrote:
My thoughts are people probably should not be announcing BGP
prefixes on the Internet if they have a issue of
not giving out their
contact info. I believe the initial intent of rwhois with regard to AMPRNet
is only for people who are announcing prefixes via BGP. Not the small "sub"
assignments within said announced BGP prefixes.
Actually that's an RIR requirement regardless of whether the address space
is even routed publicly. BGP has nothing to do with it - only that the
prefix is shorter than a /29 - and the LIR has a choice of either SWIPing
the assignment or putting it in rwhois. Moreover, net-44 is a legacy
resource which I don't think is legally governed by any specific RIR
policies (ie. I don't think we've signed on to any legacy RSAs).
However, a (r)whois lookup facility would not be a bad idea.
Antonio Querubin
e-mail: tony(a)lavanauts.org
xmpp: antonioquerubin(a)gmail.com
6 p.m.
New subject: whois/rwhois
Yep. I have no problem listing my contact information publicly for
44.24.127.0/24 or whatever the /23 ends up being if we decide to
allocate a larger subnet for San Juan County. I'd be happy to maintain
the PTR records and whois/rwhois servers for the net as well.
73
C.J. Adams-Collier
KF7BMP
PO Box 1988, Eastsound, WA 98245-1988
On Thu, 2013-02-07 at 09:38 -0800, K7VE - John wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
whois/rwhois listing, including an email address, of the responsible
contact for an allocation should be mandatory and available publicly.
If the net manager has "I can't stand hitting delete on SPAM"
disorder, they can setup an email address specifically for this
function (and check it daily) using something like a free gmail
account, which has pretty good SPAM filtering in the first place.
______________________________________________________________________
John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:31 AM, Antonio Querubin <tony(a)lavanauts.org>
wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013, Tim Osburn wrote:
My thoughts are people probably should not be
announcing BGP prefixes on the Internet if they have a
issue of not giving out their contact info. I believe
the initial intent of rwhois with regard to AMPRNet is
only for people who are announcing prefixes via BGP.
Not the small "sub" assignments within said announced
BGP prefixes.
Actually that's an RIR requirement regardless of whether the
address space is even routed publicly. BGP has nothing to do
with it - only that the prefix is shorter than a /29 - and the
LIR has a choice of either SWIPing the assignment or putting
it in rwhois. Moreover, net-44 is a legacy resource which I
don't think is legally governed by any specific RIR policies
(ie. I don't think we've signed on to any legacy RSAs).
However, a (r)whois lookup facility would not be a bad idea.
Antonio Querubin
e-mail: tony(a)lavanauts.org
xmpp: antonioquerubin(a)gmail.com
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
6:17 p.m.
New subject: whois/rwhois
On Thu, Feb 07, 2013 at 10:00:34AM -0800, C.J. Adams-Collier KF7BMP wrote:
the PTR records
Thanks for the offer, but we currently have seven nameservers worldwide
serving the 44.IN-ADDR.ARPA. zone for PTR records, which are automatically
generated from the A records in the AMPR.ORG zone. I think that's probably
adequate for the near future.
- Brian
1:38 a.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
They do but you can decide for minimum or maximum information
in it at your registrar.
Bob VE3TOK
On 13-02-06 07:40 PM, Geoff Joy wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:21:47 -0800, "Cory (NQ1E)" <cory(a)nq1e.hm> wrote:
Now that the responsible parties for each subnet
are starting to be tracked
in a centralized database, perhaps it would be a good idea to connect it to
an rwhois service. That way anyone can look up who is responsible for an
AMPRNet IP in the exact same way they would for any other IP address.
Is anyone
running whois daemons on the Internet anymore? Last time I tried doing
whois on a name it failed. The spammers have made it impossible to put up a
whois because they mined them all for valid emails so organizations had to
abandon it.
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
6 Feb
6 Feb
11:07 p.m.
New subject: 44Net Digest, Vol 2, Issue 22
Rob,
I have a dutch licence and there is nothing in there about host names.
Is this only a requirement for unattended gateways as these need a
separate licence
from the government there?
Bob (Boudewijn) VE3TOK
On 13-02-06 04:49 PM, Rob Janssen wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
44net-request(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu wrote:
the DNS functionality is a separate module and is
not tied to the
name of the IP/subnet, not everyone uses their callsign as the DNS name
But that is a license requirement! We need a mapping between IP
address and callsign for legal use of IP on amateur radio....
(ID requirement)
Rob
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
4102
days inactive
4103
days old
21 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
Antonio Querubin -
Bill Vodall -
Bjorn Pehrson -
Bob Tenty -
Brian Kantor -
C.J. Adams-Collier KF7BMP -
Charles Hargrove -
Chris Smith -
Cory (NQ1E) -
Eric Fort -
Geoff Joy -
Jay Nugent -
K7VE - John -
Phillip Frost -
Rob Janssen -
Tim Osburn