Re: [44net] Education about networking (Was Re: Inviting you to ARDC Grantmaking Survey + Community Jitsi Call)
4 Oct
2020
4 Oct
'20
1:17 p.m.
/AMPRNet / HamNet routing is quite complicated for a
non-IT guy... /
/The advantage of using BGP even in this trivial case is... /
I'm writing this because education was a specific
question in the
survey.
The reason that we have amateur radio is to enable
experimentation with
using the radio spectrum in a way that is otherwise not permitted or
practical. With the Internet, there are certain things that are only
possible to experiment with if you have your own addresses and other
network numbers. AMPRNet is (perhaps that's too strong, and we could
say, "can be") a way of enabling a kind of experimentation on the
Internet similar to what we do with the radio spectrum.
It is not clear to me what you are getting at here! These are different
layers of the cake. Your radio experimentation will result in some way
to transport bits from A to B, but not in a network. To build a network
you need another layer, and a way to define what you need to send where
to get your message to the destination. That is what BGP is handling.
By using BGP instead of static routing, we can connect many radio links
and other links together and make a network out of it without getting
buried in manual routing chores.
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I am mentioning here
has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all the internet
networks. It is the same protocol, but they are different use cases.
Don't get confused when people say they have their AMPRnet subnet BGP
routed to them on internet, and other people propose to use BGP internal
to the AMPRnet network to route things the correct way, these are two
different things.
Rob
4 Oct
4 Oct
2:40 p.m.
New subject: Education about networking (Was Re: Inviting you to ARDC Grantmaking Survey + Community Jitsi Call)
It is not clear to me what you are getting at here!
These are different
layers of the cake. Your radio experimentation will result in some way
to transport bits from A to B, but not in a network. To build a network
you need another layer, and a way to define what you need to send where
to get your message to the destination. That is what BGP is handling.
By using BGP instead of static routing, we can connect many radio links
and other links together and make a network out of it without getting
buried in manual routing chores.
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I
am mentioning
here has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all
the internet networks.
Dear Rob,
I am not confused, I am purposely trying to broaden the discussion
(that's why I changed the Subject header). What you describe above is
true, and is also completely unfamiliar except in a vague way to most
people, including most amateur radio operators. How does what you are
describing actually work? What does it mean to define what you need to
get your message to the destination? I'm not asking you to try to answer
those questions here (and I know the answers myself). I expect that many
who read what you have just written will have those sorts of questions.
That is the gap that I am identifying, and I am proposing that ARDC
consider education specifically in this area (given that they asked if
education was important).
73s William VE0HAK
2:42 p.m.
New subject: Education about networking (Was Re: Inviting you to ARDC Grantmaking Survey + Community Jitsi Call)
On Oct 4, 2020, at 13:17, Rob Janssen via 44Net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I am mentioning here
has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all the internet
networks. It is the same protocol, but they are different use cases.
Don't get confused when people say they have their AMPRnet subnet BGP
routed to them on internet, and other people propose to use BGP internal
to the AMPRnet network to route things the correct way, these are two
different things.
Rob
Yeah this thread kinda went off the rails. Originally we WERE talking about global
Internet BGP. That is what the folks need that are using net-44 for IRLP, Allstar,
Echolink, D-Star and various types of DMR. 44-net addresses that need access to and from
the global Internet.
It took my local data center provider about three weeks to set up advertising one of my
/23. Mostly waiting for all of their upstream providers to accept the newly advertised
routes. Vultr.com has a very slick set of tools allowing one to get it going in a few
hours, assuming proper license from ARDC is obtained. Neither one charges anything extra
for doing that.
But it is nothing anyone here can do on their own from home. Basically it requires support
from a large data center or ISP. All of my blocks are globally routable, courtesy of my
data center providers. I run an implementation of OpenVPN on a Linux VM to pass individual
addresses (/32) to client IRLP nodes.
BGP can be used for smaller scale network routing, although there are many other routing
protocols that may be better suited to smaller or isolated (Ampr only) networks.
-k9dc
1510
days inactive
1510
days old
2 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Dave Gingrich -
Rob Janssen -
William Waites