Re: [44net] Education about networking (Was Re: Inviting you to ARDC Grantmaking Survey + Community Jitsi Call)
/AMPRNet / HamNet routing is quite complicated for a non-IT guy... /
/The advantage of using BGP even in this trivial case is... /
I don't think the most important question is about selling BGP or any particular technology (I'm well versed in internetwork engineering and worked in that field professionally for many years; I'm in academia now).
I'm writing this because education was a specific question in the survey.
The reason that we have amateur radio is to enable experimentation with using the radio spectrum in a way that is otherwise not permitted or practical. With the Internet, there are certain things that are only possible to experiment with if you have your own addresses and other network numbers. AMPRNet is (perhaps that's too strong, and we could say, "can be") a way of enabling a kind of experimentation on the Internet similar to what we do with the radio spectrum.
It is not clear to me what you are getting at here! These are different layers of the cake. Your radio experimentation will result in some way to transport bits from A to B, but not in a network. To build a network you need another layer, and a way to define what you need to send where to get your message to the destination. That is what BGP is handling. By using BGP instead of static routing, we can connect many radio links and other links together and make a network out of it without getting buried in manual routing chores.
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I am mentioning here has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all the internet networks. It is the same protocol, but they are different use cases. Don't get confused when people say they have their AMPRnet subnet BGP routed to them on internet, and other people propose to use BGP internal to the AMPRnet network to route things the correct way, these are two different things.
Rob
It is not clear to me what you are getting at here! These are different layers of the cake. Your radio experimentation will result in some way to transport bits from A to B, but not in a network. To build a network you need another layer, and a way to define what you need to send where to get your message to the destination. That is what BGP is handling. By using BGP instead of static routing, we can connect many radio links and other links together and make a network out of it without getting buried in manual routing chores.
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I am mentioning here has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all the internet networks.
Dear Rob,
I am not confused, I am purposely trying to broaden the discussion (that's why I changed the Subject header). What you describe above is true, and is also completely unfamiliar except in a vague way to most people, including most amateur radio operators. How does what you are describing actually work? What does it mean to define what you need to get your message to the destination? I'm not asking you to try to answer those questions here (and I know the answers myself). I expect that many who read what you have just written will have those sorts of questions. That is the gap that I am identifying, and I am proposing that ARDC consider education specifically in this area (given that they asked if education was important).
73s William VE0HAK
On Oct 4, 2020, at 13:17, Rob Janssen via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Please make sure you understand that the use of BGP I am mentioning here has nothing to do with the use of BGP on internet to route all the internet networks. It is the same protocol, but they are different use cases. Don't get confused when people say they have their AMPRnet subnet BGP routed to them on internet, and other people propose to use BGP internal to the AMPRnet network to route things the correct way, these are two different things. Rob
Yeah this thread kinda went off the rails. Originally we WERE talking about global Internet BGP. That is what the folks need that are using net-44 for IRLP, Allstar, Echolink, D-Star and various types of DMR. 44-net addresses that need access to and from the global Internet.
It took my local data center provider about three weeks to set up advertising one of my /23. Mostly waiting for all of their upstream providers to accept the newly advertised routes. Vultr.com has a very slick set of tools allowing one to get it going in a few hours, assuming proper license from ARDC is obtained. Neither one charges anything extra for doing that.
But it is nothing anyone here can do on their own from home. Basically it requires support from a large data center or ISP. All of my blocks are globally routable, courtesy of my data center providers. I run an implementation of OpenVPN on a Linux VM to pass individual addresses (/32) to client IRLP nodes.
BGP can be used for smaller scale network routing, although there are many other routing protocols that may be better suited to smaller or isolated (Ampr only) networks.
-k9dc
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Dave Gingrich -
Rob Janssen -
William Waites