I can relate to all those questions and points. How would/do we proceed? Do we create a work-group, how do we communicate, document, etc?

If we can make a POC of some sorts with a few global POP's and clients and get the documentation going we could succeed

73,

Ruben - ON3RVH

-----Original Message----- From: 44Net 44net-bounces+on3rvh=on3rvh.be@mailman.ampr.org On Behalf Of R P via 44Net Sent: dinsdag 23 juli 2019 12:44 To: AMPRNet working group 44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: R P ronenp@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [44net] 44 net connectivity

As the only one who have a working network in my country and the one who is the main person that help others in my country to setup a gateway or connected to the AMPRNET i can say the following :

1) the users dont understand what benefit they can get from it that regular internet can not do

for me the advantage are FIXED IP no need for DDNS more then one a IP fully accessible from the outside world without tricks of Port forwarding or NAT

2) most of the users are not network experts and dont have the skills to config router for IPIP tunnel

3) the setup is complicated require DDNS definition to put the DDNS name in the portal because most homes here use Dynamic IP The network speed is low and trying to do a video streaming from a home camera flew very slow and utilize the network for about half of its capacity and probably more

and most of the hams here are even not aware that we have an AMPRNET IP when i wrote a document about the AMPRNET and our (44.138) network the users asked me what is that for ...

I think we need to do few things in order to attract new users

1) increase the network capacity to allow modern services (video streaming , VOIP other...) 2) make publication about the AMPRNET 3) make very simple system to connect to the net (preferred by off the shelf routers such as Mikrotik or (less preferred) unix system as Raspberry pi it would be ideal to have an working image for raspberry pi for a gateway same as the PISTAR does (pi star is a system that allow to make from Raspberry pi and external card connected to analog radio a DMR gateway ider hotspot or repeater ) they provide image that all you have to do is change some parameters (such as callsign and other small thing ) and you are on even idiot can do it we need to do same for Pi gateway 4) provide services on the net for the users regards Ronen - 4Z4ZQ

________________________________ From: 44Net 44net-bounces+ronenp=hotmail.com@mailman.ampr.org on behalf of Rob Janssen via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:36 AM To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org 44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org Subject: Re: [44net] 44 net connectivity

But, afer almost 20 years playing around witht his topic, I think the lack of specific network services on 44net is the actual element preventing the spread of its usage. The original goal was conectivity, global if possible. But there simply is no incentive for using it anymore. Dx clusters are reachable on the regular internet, repeaters and reflectors too. Specialized sites dedicated to contesting are homebrew stuff, or whatever, use regular internet access. They can not rely on a network where only 10k users are reachable. And BBS systems are outdated and replaced by forums, mailing lists and discussion groups on various platforms. Unless we can find desirable services that really need a "private" globally routeable network for them to work, there will be no real new users influx beyond the occasional network enthusiast.

I agree with that, it does not make much sense to run it as an isolated network. However, the 44net address space has enabled us to build a radio linked network and have infrastucture like repeaters, WebSDR, VoIP exchanges etc attached to it and also connect interested users to the same network. Without NAT issues.

For that network to be useful though, it needs to be connected to internet in a reasonably efficient way. That is why we announced our country network on internet, and now we can use the services both on the radio network and from internet. (of course as far as firewall rules permit, you really don't want to route all traffic from internet to your radio network...)

Still it is difficult to interest new users. However, when we get an interested user and he wants to setup some new service or experiment with what is there, shouldn't we make access to the network easy for new users, instead of making them fight with their router settings?

The 44net also often makes things easier by having transparent routing. E.g. to setup a system with echolink usually is a nightmare because of the port forwarding requirements. By connecting to 44net and putting the echolink system on a 44net address, the filtering in the ISP router is eliminated and it is much easier to make it working.

Rob

_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

May I suggest '44NGN' - Next Generation Network? - Brian

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 04:31:37AM -0700, Brian Kantor via 44Net wrote:

If you like, I can set up another mailing list like 44net for your use. Pick a name.

• Brian

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 10:50:10AM +0000, Ruben ON3RVH via 44Net wrote:

...

I can relate to all those questions and points. How would/do we proceed? Do we create a work-group, how do we communicate, document, etc?

If we can make a POC of some sorts with a few global POP's and clients and get the documentation going we could succeed

73,

Ruben - ON3RVH

---

44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

Ronen;

On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 10:44 +0000, R P via 44Net wrote:

3. make very simple system to connect to the net (preferred by off the shelf routers such as Mikrotik or (less preferred) unix system as Raspberry pi

it would be ideal to have an working image for raspberry pi for a gateway same as the PISTAR does (pi star is a system that allow to make from Raspberry pi and external card connected to analog radio a DMR gateway ider hotspot or repeater ) they provide image that all you have to do is change some parameters (such as callsign and other small thing ) and you are on even idiot can do it we need to do same for Pi gateway

If you would like, you can test out my "dotun" system which is designed for any linux system. The end user needs to do only 2 things:

1 - set their router's DMZ to match the IP of their device/pc 2 - run the installer and answer 3 (?) questions about their amprnet configuration.

That's it! As soon as they receive rip ipip should work for them. Contact me offlist if you wish to try it out.

I also have Pi images for my URONode software which also has ipip basically preconfigured. They've been available for a few years now.

I don't think it can get any easier than that without having to do the typing for them... at least that was my goal when I made them.

On 23/07/19 20:44, R P via 44Net wrote:

As the only one who have a working network in my country and the one who is the main person that help others in my country to setup a gateway or connected to the AMPRNET i can say the following :

1. the users dont understand what benefit they can get from it that regular internet can not do

for me the advantage are FIXED IP no need for DDNS more then one a IP fully accessible from the outside world without tricks of Port forwarding or NAT

Everyone's situation is different.  I already have a fixed (IPv4) from my ISP.  And I have a block of non Net44 public IPs via a hobbyist group (that one is over VPN).  One point here is that hams aren't the only ones capable of this.  Australia has had its own band of network hobbyists for a few decades.  I happen to be one of them, as well as a ham, and have IPs on both networks.  But the difference here is that I only need the VPN to connect a few select systems to the wider Internet, not try and build a virtual LAN over the Internet.  Quite a different setup.

2. most of the users are not network experts and dont have the skills to config router for IPIP tunnel

Any way we can have some sort of appliance that could be sold to hams that one just has to plug a few magic values into?  Sure, they still need to use the DMZ on their router, but the appliance does the rest.

above ar

3. the setup is complicated require DDNS definition to put the DDNS name in the portal because most homes here use Dynamic IP

The network speed is low and trying to do a video streaming from a home camera flew very slow and utilize the network for about half of its capacity and probably more

Appliance (see above).

and most of the hams here are even not aware that we have an AMPRNET IP when i wrote a document about the AMPRNET and our (44.138) network the users asked me what is that for ...

I think we need to do few things in order to attract new users

1. increase the network capacity to allow modern services (video streaming , VOIP other...)

Yes, at least within the network.  I personally don't care much about Internet access, which could be more of a problem for RF connected nodes here.

2. make publication about the AMPRNET

Yes.

3. make very simple system to connect to the net (preferred by off the shelf routers such as Mikrotik or (less preferred) unix system as Raspberry pi

Again, appliances.  I agree there.  Appliances do serve a good purpose.