(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Greetings list members; I concur with what Marius writes below; On Sun, 2013-06-30 at 10:38 +0300, Marius Petrescu wrote: We have always had two issues at hand: 1) network administration/engineering 2) application/sysadmin While this thread appears to discuss some very valid solutions for #1, we often concentrate too much of our thinking in this and ignore solutions for #2, and it's somewhat (from what I've seen) cut off our toes. Our knowledge base and resources for network engineering is top-notch as proven by the various suggestions in this thread but none appear to address the fact that "hey, we built this superb network infrastructure for you (the end user) but we haven't given you any new services to use it with". The end user, many who aren't as computer literate as we are, will see this as possibly having to make further investments into an already dying system to which most who used to use it have become SKs or simply have no desire to reinvest into something they've already decided to leave packet as a mode of operation. We need something positive in which we can not only provide the easiest solution for network connectivity with the lowest investment costs (none if possible!) to the end user with some sort of enhanced services for them that's cross-platform compatable. We also need to look at what's already in place and somehow enhance them so that the typical end user can use their "natural resources" from their OS and/or web browser on packet to do all that they do now in a dumb terminal screen. Without this, we can build the most robust network in the galaxy, but what good would it do without end points making use of it? An ISP for example would have no users if the users couldn't do anything on it or have been forced to use the same limited resources for years. I have been testing the PPTP offering Jesse's been experimenting with and it's worked very well and at 100% performance every time I've rebooted my machine. Configuration for the end user requires only 4 simple steps (gateway, username, password, no forced data compression) it comes right up. This on high speed such as 802.11 would be very attractive I would think to an end user with possibly little investment cost in gear (as previously noted). IP under FlexNet is very slick as well and with it's dynamic auto-routing of ax25 destinations helps keep the virtual circuit required alive to pass IP through the best possible RF path available... similar to how BGP/OSPF/etc perform on the internet backhauls... and even at slower speeds such as 1k2 baud, you can still transmit SMTP based mail at a somewhat reasonable amount of time even while FBB systems are autoforwarding. While this scenario may not be ideal for our discussions... it works and it works well for what it does. I've even done web browsing with limited graphics over 1k2 baud/Flex without issue (obviously higher speeds is nicer and 802.11 would resolve that!) but again, the services is what the end-user driving force is as APRS has proven and since the IP stack with standard application based protocols appears to be cross-platform compatable, that makes it very attractive. Long story short; let's look at the "whole" picture not just the "big" picture of building a network infrastructure while we're at it. -- 73 de Brian Rogers - N1URO email: <n1uro(a)n1uro.ampr.org> Web: http://www.n1uro.net/ Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/ Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org Linux Amateur Radio Services axMail-Fax & URONode AmprNet coordinator for: Deleware, all New England, and New Jersey. _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.html

(Please trim inclusions from previous messages) _______________________________________________ Now talking about services available... What could we possible offer to stimulate fellow hams to support the 44 network despite commercial available internet being widely available? A modern idea comes into mind: free cloud storage/computing - available only on 44 addresses. Could this be a possible life raft? Marius, YO2LOJ _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net http://www.ampr.org/donate.html

I think adding PPTP to the mix would really lower the bar of entry in connecting HSMM/Packet islands (as that is clearly the future). It could then be packaged up and written so that people can setup their Mesh Router to other islands via VPN to get over the "Chicken and the Egg" effect of creating a whole new network which clearly is where we stand today.