Looks transparent to me. $10k to fund travel assistance for students and presenters to the digital conference.

The DCC is In September. Seems to me like a small disbursement has been made in a timely manner to help some folks get to the conference.

What’s the big deal over this? Would you prefer to have a year long effort and 1000 pages of policy written before the first dollar is distributed?

Let’s be practical people. This is a hobby. Let’s assume that people are good, trustworthy and reasonable until such time as they let us down. Innocent til proven guilty.

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 6:01 PM Darcy Buskermolen via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

So, Grants are being awarded, but without any documented oversite on how how to apply, what criteria are expected or anything else. This does not bode well for the credibility of those involved in the decision process, it can easily be viewed as a fund disbursed for the personal benefit of its board and friends.

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 4:09 PM Bryan Fields via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

...

It would appear the ARDC lists are now stripping out PGP.

https://www.ampr.org/grants/

Anyone partaking in this fraud, should be named and shamed by our community.

As a TAPR member, I'm disgusted they would take this. I encourage

everyone

...

to make your opinion known to the TAPR board.

73s

Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

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44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

Hi gents,

I read the list with surprise because I’m reading tough words.

Trying to be positive, I don’t dare to say this is a fraud (or not, or this is another type of bad behaviour or felony) but obviously there’s people in this list that warned in advance this could happen and seems (for what I can see in the website) it happened.

But, let’s be practical, more analytical and less visceral:

I was not part of this awesome hobby when some folks reserved the address space 44/8. Probably much of you neither. I read in this list the 44/8 address reservation was done, long time ago when the request implied no cost, in pos of the entire ham community, not for personal or group use in any specific area of the world. I read in this list that, for better management, a non-profit organisation was created.

You should be on agreement with the all the above demonstrate correctness.

With the above clarified, personally speaking, my only concern (if I must have one) is the transparency, in general terms. If, and maybe this is a big “if” nowadays, the 44/8 address space was reserved in pos of the entire ham radio community then the general expectancy would be that no decision altering the 44/8 block space would be taken by any party without community approval, specially nowadays, as we all know an IP address is like gold. Nonetheless, we discovered recently that the IP address space was touched, was divided into smaller blocks, and a portion of the original address space was sold to a major Internet company for a nice sum. At this point, I think we should forget about clumsy justifications. What is done is done.

Now, let’s keep on trying being practical again, because sometimes we tend to forget that:

Directive roles are necessary because an entire group cannot put voice to all decisions at the same time and await a permanent agreement. Simply this is an illusion. Transcendental decisions sometimes are taken without considering the community and this can be or can’t be correct. This will depend much on the organisation and their collaboration model inside.

So, with that said:

I don’t have any concern, and I think we shouldn’t have it as a group, in regard to how AMPR could handle the budget obtained from breaking up the 44/8 IP address space block. It’s not important it the first grant, that was expected to generate rumours, is related to granting anyone in a specific part of the world some money to attend whatever event meanwhile: the deciders on this matters are well known, so we can ask them at some point for any decision taken. the deciders understand they are subject to public scrutiny. the criteria to get ham radio projects or ham events funded are well known and publicly available. anyone in the ham radio community can concur, without exceptions, worldwide.

If this can be accomplished without much havoc, then, there’s not reason to criticise the management. Otherwise, if this is not done (there’s not need to adhere strictly to my words) then we all will know the first three bullet points would be a lie in the face of all of us as as community and we all would know who’s doing what and know how to progress in the future, either individually or as a part of a community. The only thing we shouldn’t accept is ulterior motives.

My 2cent. Best regards,

Vy73 de EA1HET, Jonathan 0x539C9FAF

Sent from my tablet/mobile. Please, excuse my brevity and the presence of typos.

El 3 ago 2019, a las 1:07, Bryan Fields via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org escribió:

It would appear the ARDC lists are now stripping out PGP.

https://www.ampr.org/grants/

Anyone partaking in this fraud, should be named and shamed by our community.

As a TAPR member, I'm disgusted they would take this. I encourage everyone to make your opinion known to the TAPR board.

73s

Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

Pedja,

There are so few purchasers for an IP Block of this size, it would be pointless to have a public sale. The largest consumers of legacy IPv4 address space are hosting/cloud companies. Only the top 3 largest cloud companies would have an appetite for a large IP Block like this, and of those 3 companies, one is substantially larger than the other two.

Selling this off as a /24 at a time would be difficult, onerous, and bring in drips and dribbles of non-material amounts of money for this underutilized asset. Selling it as one large chunk is appropriate for this type of resource.

It's also not a unique transaction, and there are benchmarks for this sort of transaction. Such as: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3191503/mit-selling-8-million-coveted-i...

Randy, W3RWN / VE3RWN

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 10:59 AM Pedja YT9TP via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

On 05.08.2019 16:08, EA1HET Jonathan Gonzalez via 44Net wrote:

...

I don’t have any concern, and I think we shouldn’t have it as a group,

in regard to how AMPR could handle the budget obtained from breaking up the 44/8 IP address space block. I did not have much concern until the latest news ow spending money for some ones personal gain.

First we had secret sale of IP block. After it happened we were told that it was on buyer's request. It sounded strange.

It is reasonable that buyer wants his identity, and even offer secret and should be obliged. But, keeping secret fact that IP block was on sale was actually damaging for seller. If it was publicly known, other interested parties could show and offer more. As you said IP addresses are like gold. When you have such goods for sale, you make sure everyone that may be interested knows about it as it guarantees higher price.

Then we have this, first money that is spend is spend on personal behalf. I expected it could go for some equipment or services, or starting projects to enhance 44net, that are for everyones good, but no, it goes to private pockets.

I must say trust is seriously breached.

-- 73, Pedja YT9TP

Checkout: https://pedja.supurovic.net/ https://yu1abh.uzice.net/ https://www.facebook.com/yu1abh/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/yu1abh.konstruktori/ http://www.radio-amater.rs/

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44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

Wrong

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 11:52 AM K7VE - John via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

1. The 44/8 (now 44.0.0.0/9 and 44.128.0.0/10) was never owned by "the

community" - It was obtained by *an individual* as a resource to be used by the amateur radio community - It passed through a series of individuals and has been used by the amateur radio community (at no charge/no contract) - A wise decision was made to form a public benefit non-profit corporation to own the address space, rather than an individual and it was assigned to that corporation. - That corporation has a board of volunteer directors, who receive no salary, and oversee its operation under their legal by-laws. It has no *members* or shareholders. 2. The portion of addresses that were sold was not in use (with the exception of a block in Germany and the leaders of that community were agreeable - they can adopt new addresses). They were not used in a way that is routed to the general Internet as addressable nodes. 3. The corporation had no formal mechanism to "consult" with the amateur radio community and no obligation to do so. Again, no members and more importantly no contract. 4. People who thought differently, need to study this out and move on.

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John D. Hays - K7VE Kingston, WA http://k7ve.org/blog http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

I guess the argument here is: if an individual went to “IANA” and asked for the /8 for themselves, would they get it? They got it to be used by the community. Not by them personally. So equally, they could not sell it?

On 7 Aug 2019, at 03:28, Donald Jacob via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

What's wrong? Do you have proof to dispute this? If so please enlighten us with the verifiable facts.

Don WB5EKU (Yes, I use my call sign)

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:09 PM Victor Vaida via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

...

Wrong

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 11:52 AM K7VE - John via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

...

1. The 44/8 (now 44.0.0.0/9 and 44.128.0.0/10) was never owned by "the

community" - It was obtained by *an individual* as a resource to be used by the amateur radio community - It passed through a series of individuals and has been used by the amateur radio community (at no charge/no contract) - A wise decision was made to form a public benefit non-profit corporation to own the address space, rather than an individual and it was assigned to that corporation. - That corporation has a board of volunteer directors, who receive no salary, and oversee its operation under their legal by-laws. It has no *members* or shareholders. 2. The portion of addresses that were sold was not in use (with the exception of a block in Germany and the leaders of that community were agreeable - they can adopt new addresses). They were not used in a way that is routed to the general Internet as addressable nodes. 3. The corporation had no formal mechanism to "consult" with the amateur radio community and no obligation to do so. Again, no members and more importantly no contract. 4. People who thought differently, need to study this out and move on.

---

John D. Hays - K7VE Kingston, WA http://k7ve.org/blog http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

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44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

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44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

+1

On Aug 7, 2019, at 05:53, Dave Gingrich via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

...

On Aug 7, 2019, at 03:07, DaKnOb via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

I guess the argument here is: if an individual went to “IANA” and asked for the /8 for themselves, would they get it? They got it to be used by the community. Not by them personally. So equally, they could not sell it?

Not today of course. But back when Phil got the 44/8 allocation, in the early 1980s, was before the IANA existed, (founded in 1988). ARIN did not exist until 1997. In 1985, I had already been a Ham for 20 years (talk about old tech!).

I am vastly over simplifying the history here, which always gets me jammed up. But if you needed more than what a class C network provided, 256 addresses, you got a class B. If you needed more than what a class B provided, 65,000, you got a class A, or 16M addresses. There was nothing in between the classes, no CIDR, no netmasks. Not even “routers” really existed. There were way more than 65,000 Hams in the world in 1980, so it was easy to justify.

Back then, the address space was typically issued to individual people, and basically had no value. So there was no real incentive to establish a community. More like "I’ll just hang on to it for now, too much paperwork to set up a club.”

What a difference 40 years makes. It’s now speculated the entire 44/8 block is worth well in excess of US$300 million. If that asset was in my name, I don’t know that I would have made the same decision. I am grateful.

-k9dc

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44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net

The point is, the address block was privately held. The owner(s) *could* have sold the whole thing and bought a very nice boat with the proceeds. I am really glad I was not not faced with such a dilemma. We are all the beneficiaries of their good will.

-k9dc

On Aug 6, 2019, at 14:49, K7VE - John via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

1. The 44/8 (now 44.0.0.0/9 and 44.128.0.0/10) was never owned by "the

community" - It was obtained by *an individual* as a resource to be used by the amateur radio community - It passed through a series of individuals and has been used by the amateur radio community (at no charge/no contract) - A wise decision was made to form a public benefit non-profit corporation to own the address space, rather than an individual and it was assigned to that corporation. - That corporation has a board of volunteer directors, who receive no salary, and oversee its operation under their legal by-laws. It has no *members* or shareholders.