Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP)
Whaaaat? I know plenty of individual hams in vk2, and vk4 with individual allocations advertised via bgp.. although the former VK coordinator was running half her ISP on 44-net space before she died, so VK may just be very loose?
On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 at 7:11 pm, Donald Gordon via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP) _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
I have a BGP routed /24, which happens to support a significant amount of infrastructure for amateurs - an IRLP reflector, several Echolink conferences, D-STAR reflector and a heap of public Echolink proxies.
On 10/11/21 7:14 pm, Damien Gardner via 44Net wrote:
Whaaaat? I know plenty of individual hams in vk2, and vk4 with individual allocations advertised via bgp.. although the former VK coordinator was running half her ISP on 44-net space before she died, so VK may just be very loose?
On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 at 7:11 pm, Donald Gordon via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP) _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
It is indeed allowed. Afaik the only policy (besides that is exclusively for hams) is that you may not host or do any commercial content on/with it. New BGP allocations are indeed from the 44.31.0.0/16 range, Chris G1FEF is handling those and moving away from country specific /24 allocations for BGP. The only downside to that is that you have to make arrangements to reclassify the prefix for your specific country with services like Maxmind and ip2location if you're not in the US .
73
Ruben ON3RVH
-----Original Message----- From: 44Net 44net-bounces+on3rvh=on3rvh.be@mailman.ampr.org On Behalf Of Tony Langdon via 44Net Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 09:38 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Cc: Tony Langdon vk3jed@vkradio.com Subject: Re: [44net] Policy around /24 allocations for BGP use
I have a BGP routed /24, which happens to support a significant amount of infrastructure for amateurs - an IRLP reflector, several Echolink conferences, D-STAR reflector and a heap of public Echolink proxies.
On 10/11/21 7:14 pm, Damien Gardner via 44Net wrote:
Whaaaat? I know plenty of individual hams in vk2, and vk4 with individual allocations advertised via bgp.. although the former VK coordinator was running half her ISP on 44-net space before she died, so VK may just be very loose?
On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 at 7:11 pm, Donald Gordon via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP) _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
-- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
_________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
me to
Matt
On 10/11/21 7:37 pm, Tony Langdon via 44Net wrote:
I have a BGP routed /24, which happens to support a significant amount of infrastructure for amateurs - an IRLP reflector, several Echolink conferences, D-STAR reflector and a heap of public Echolink proxies.
On 10/11/21 7:14 pm, Damien Gardner via 44Net wrote:
Whaaaat? I know plenty of individual hams in vk2, and vk4 with individual allocations advertised via bgp.. although the former VK coordinator was running half her ISP on 44-net space before she died, so VK may just be very loose?
On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 at 7:11 pm, Donald Gordon via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP) _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
Hi Donald,
BGP announced allocations for individuals are permitted for amateur radio communication and experimentation, no commercial or non-amateur related use is permitted.
If you want to put in an allocation request in the 44.31.0.0/16 range then I can process your request for you. There is a vetting process, so be prepared to provide some justification for your proposed use case(s) !
You may also wish to ask your local coordinator to drop me an email, I can then bring them up to date.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 10 Nov 2021, at 08:10, Donald Gordon via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP) _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
Actually both are fine. For personal use, I have two /23, one routed globally by my Data Center provider, and one not. Both are from the block assigned geographically to my home state.
I also manage a /20 for IRLP.net, which would fall under the “club” rule. Since these addresses might pop up anywhere in the world, they are in 44.127, the so called “multinational” block. (Thanks Chris!)
One suggestion I have though is you might want to come up with an actual use for the address space. I would argue “Education and tinkering” is not really a “use.” Education and tinkering is something we all have to go through, when starting out. What are you going to use it for, once it all works?
Unless you own or manage a commercial data center with multiple connections to the Internet and have your own ASN (Autonomous System Number), you are not going to be able to set this up yourself. It can only be set up by your serving provider. So you should ask your provider if you, as a customer, can bring your own addresses and have them advertise your allocation, and route it to your host(s). Some might, others will not.
IRLP uses Vultr.com for some of our hosting. Vultr is fairly stingy with their own addresses, but they will advertise your own address space from any of their locations, for FREE, as long as you are a customer. You do have to be running a routing daemon on your VM, but setting that up is fairly straightforward and is well documented on their site.
Vultr.com (AS20473) is advertising hundreds of Net-44 blocks. IRLP today, is running from Chicago and Sydney, providing public IPs via OpenVPN tunnels to a few hundred IRLP repeaters. There are even a few repeaters in .NZ getting public addresses from Sydney.
Follow Chris’s (G1FEF) direction, he knows how to interact with many of the providers, and will work with you and them to get you going.
I recently got into this rabbit hole and spend way too much time on it ;-)
There are actually lots of exciting ways besides Vultr for hams/hobbyists out there. And if you have a residence in Europe then even an own AS could be attainable (technically it works in US too but it is likely too expensive for hams/experimentation). The fun really starts there: setting up peering, transit, AS path manipulations, genuine multihoming etc.
This is all work in progress but once the pieces are in a better shape, I plan to share some more details and guides here.
As others said, I really recommend getting started with Vultr. It's the easiest way. Indeed, there are massive 44 prefixes there:
https://bgp.tools/as/20473#prefixes
- KM6RDV
On 2021-11-10 07:11, Dave Gingrich via 44Net wrote:
Actually both are fine. For personal use, I have two /23, one routed globally by my Data Center provider, and one not. Both are from the block assigned geographically to my home state.
I also manage a /20 for IRLP.net, which would fall under the “club” rule. Since these addresses might pop up anywhere in the world, they are in 44.127, the so called “multinational” block. (Thanks Chris!)
One suggestion I have though is you might want to come up with an actual use for the address space. I would argue “Education and tinkering” is not really a “use.” Education and tinkering is something we all have to go through, when starting out. What are you going to use it for, once it all works?
Unless you own or manage a commercial data center with multiple connections to the Internet and have your own ASN (Autonomous System Number), you are not going to be able to set this up yourself. It can only be set up by your serving provider. So you should ask your provider if you, as a customer, can bring your own addresses and have them advertise your allocation, and route it to your host(s). Some might, others will not.
IRLP uses Vultr.com for some of our hosting. Vultr is fairly stingy with their own addresses, but they will advertise your own address space from any of their locations, for FREE, as long as you are a customer. You do have to be running a routing daemon on your VM, but setting that up is fairly straightforward and is well documented on their site.
Vultr.com (AS20473) is advertising hundreds of Net-44 blocks. IRLP today, is running from Chicago and Sydney, providing public IPs via OpenVPN tunnels to a few hundred IRLP repeaters. There are even a few repeaters in .NZ getting public addresses from Sydney.
Follow Chris’s (G1FEF) direction, he knows how to interact with many of the providers, and will work with you and them to get you going.
There are other options like dn.42 if all you really want to do is experiment with BGP.
Putting Chris through all the hoops without an actual bonafide plan on how to deploy something of ham radio use isn't really all that best of an idea in my opinion.
On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 2:11 AM Donald Gordon via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Hi
Does AMPRnet have any policy around allocating /24s to individual hams for the purpose of experimenting with BGP/etc?
My local coordinator says this used to be a "yes, but you'd have to be a club not an individual." However I note looking through AMPR allocations there are some in e.g. 44.31 listed as educational/tinkering BGP. Which is what I want to do. Should I be requesting in 44.31 instead of my country's allocation?
Regards
Donald Gordon (ZL2IP) _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
-
Chris - G1FEF -
Damien Gardner -
Dave Gingrich -
Donald Gordon -
Larry Crouch -
Matt - VK2FLY -
Nick KM6RDV -
Ruben ON3RVH -
Steve L -
Tony Langdon