[44net] Re: Clarification on Terms of Service

Maybe an AUP that is clearly written is needed.

On 9/27/2023 10:37 PM, Steve L via 44net wrote:

In my opinion, the issues of applicable radio regulations aren't to be mixed with the ARDC acceptable use policy.  They are two separate things.

The ARDC is not in a position to advise hams in the various countries what is permitted and what is not by their regulators.

The use policy concerns use of the loaned address space.  Bickering or advise about radio regulations can be done outside of this list.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:23 AM Peter Hannay via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:

In relation to general internet access you prevent access to
encrypted services via traffic inspection or use a transparent proxy
to strip encryption upstream before it hits the radio link.

Some sites would break if they use HSTS, but many services would
work just fine.

You'd want to make sure users understand this though, as accessing
anything that requires a login would be a terrible idea.

Just some thoughts I've had as I'm planning to provide some limited
access to the internet via RF and want to make sure I'm doing things
in a completely above board manner.

Cheers

Peter VK6HAX

On Wed, 27 Sept 2023, 5:12 pm Matthew H (2E0SIP) via 44net,
<44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:

    Hi all,

    Thanks for the speedy responses, very helpful.

     >> * Providing general outbound internet access for radio
    amateurs connecting via RF, whether its AX.25 or WiFi operating
    on the allocated amateur radio frequencies

     > Not a good idea - apart from the obvious issue of accessing
    HTTPS / encrypted sites then having that encrypted data
    transported over amateur RF frequencies (which would not be
    permitted in a lot of countries due to licence restrictions)
    there is also the grey area of providing general internet access
    to third parties.

     > Regardless of what the ARDC rules are your UK licence does
    not permit you to use your station to provide general outbound
    internet access to Amateurs via RF

    Yes I didn't really think that one though sorry. I was trying to
    ask some broad questions to get a general feel for what's
    acceptable and didn't consider UK license conditions.

    Slightly different tack in that case, could 44net space be used
    as the source IP for general internet access to a club radio
    shack, over wired / wireless Ethernet operating outside of the
    amateur bands? Let's assume the underlying network is provided
    by a landlord and NAT or an aggressive firewall is causing issues.

    Thanks
    Matthew

    On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 9:54 AM dave.g4ugm--- via 44net
    <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:

        Tom,____

        No third party traffic on UK licences. You can communicate
        only with Amateurs____

        Dave____

        __ __

        *From:*Tom M0LTE via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org
        <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
        *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2023 9:37 AM
        *To:* 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
        *Subject:* [44net] Re: Clarification on Terms of Service____

        __ __

        Hi Dave____

        __ __

        I have no skin in the game, but I am curious- encryption
        aside (assume blocked for purposes of question, regardless
        of technical feasibility) can you share please on what basis
        you reach that conclusion? Purely on the ‘encryption for the
        purpose of obscuration’ limitation in the licence?____

        __ __

        Cheers____

        Tom____

        __ __

        __ __

        On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 at 09:30, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net
        <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
        wrote:____

            Matthew,____

            Regardless of what the ARDC rules are your UK licence
            does not permit you to use your station to provide
            general outbound internet access to Amateurs via RF.____

            Dave____

            G4UGM____

            ____

            ____

            ____

            *From:*Matthew H (2E0SIP) via 44net
            <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
            *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2023 3:02 AM
            *To:* 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
            *Subject:* [44net] Clarification on Terms of Service____

            ____

            Hi all,____



            The Terms of Service
            <https://www.ardc.net/about/legal/terms-of-service/> states:

            /"Your license permits You to use certain addresses
            exclusively for the purpose of Amateur Radio
            communications and experimentation, or other special
            uses as may be agreed to by ARDC"/

            I was wondering if this was clarified anywhere with
            examples of acceptable use cases? A few examples that
            I'm curious if they're permitted or not:____

              * Hosting a radio club website that's accessible from
                the public internet, including from non radio
                amateurs.____
              * Providing general outbound internet access for radio
                amateurs connecting via RF, whether its AX.25 or
                WiFi operating on the allocated amateur radio
                frequencies____
              * Hosting not strictly amateur radio services such as
                an IRC server for discussing cars, but it's /only
                /reachable from other 44net addresses and RF users____
              * Providing general outbound internet access to
                servers and services that might need to pull
                software updates from non-radio amateur servers. ____
              * Providing connectivity to a radio amateur related
                server such as a DMR Master, to other radio amateur
                related servers /outside/ of 44net____

            Any guidance would be appreciated.

            Matthew
            2E0SIP____

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