Previously, we were talking about network topology. Here, we are talking about applications. This is one of the drawbacks of the current 44net : lots of applications are installed on 44net addresses, but there's no current catalog, and no way to find them.
Maybe an idea of a project that can be handled by ARDC : a search engine / catalog of all existing applications on 44net.
I have been thinking about that before. My idea was to setup a search site which has a database of existing services, where a visitor could search by different attributes of an entry, where possible with a user interface that suggests valid values. So not a "google" style textbox where you can only search for things of which you already know the name, but also can "explore" and find new unknown things (e.g. a service type is a dropdown list or there is a page with all known types and links that you can click to search them).
Now the major problem is "how do we keep this uptodate". It is quite common that someone newly active on the Dutch network experiments and installs something like a "HamServer Pi" and would register it in the database. But maybe after a couple of weeks he reprograms the Pi for something else and that entry would remain in the database and people trying to visit it would encounter a timeout.
As I also do not really like systems that are constantly probing and scanning to find new services, my idea was to devise some way where a service would automatically refresh its entry by re-submitting it, and the search engine would only display entries that have been recently refreshed. (e.g. once per week or so)
With such a system, the risk of stale entries is a lot less. But I have not yet devised a way to refresh entries without limiting the platform on which they can run (a Linux or Windows system can easily schedule a job that runs some program to post a form, but I do not want to limit too much what platforms can provide and auto-refresh services)
Rob
On 30.12.20 at 16:55 wrote Rob PE1CHL via 44Net: ..
With such a system, the risk of stale entries is a lot less. But I have not yet devised a way to refresh entries without limiting the platform on which they can run (a Linux or Windows system can easily schedule a job that runs some program to post a form, but I do not want to limit too much what platforms can provide and auto-refresh services)
Are you aware of
This is a distributed search engine. I do not have a lot of experience with it other than know about its existence. But perhaps this could be a solution? I know that the Germans once had such operational for some time https://www.dl0hgw.de/funk-technik/hamnet.html (Sorry the site is German language only) but it had disappeared from the net. If you like I can ask them about their experience and why the discontinued the service.
oe1rsa
On 12/30/20 5:08 PM, Roland Schwarz via 44Net wrote:
Are you aware of
This is a distributed search engine. I do not have a lot of experience with it other than know about its existence. But perhaps this could be a solution? I know that the Germans once had such operational for some time https://www.dl0hgw.de/funk-technik/hamnet.html (Sorry the site is German language only) but it had disappeared from the net. If you like I can ask them about their experience and why the discontinued the service.
oe1rsa
Yes, and there are still operational e.g. yacy.dk0mav.ampr.org However, that is what I mean with 'not a "google" style textbox where you can only search for things of which you already know the name'. Unless I misunderstand Yacy it is just that.
What I mean is: people join the AMPRnet and want to know what can be done with it, what are interesting new projects, etc. They do not want a box where they have to type "DMR" to find something about DMR (for example) but more some site where they can "ask": "what can I try today".
So I think it is better to have some "navigation" where instead of having to type a name, you can select from a list of available options where you may find things that you have never heard before.
And when that sounds too advanced: more like presenting a list of all current info in the system, with an option to limit the list according to criteria you enter, than a blank search form giving access to an invisible wealth of information.
Rob
Am 30.12.20 um 17:18 schrieb Rob PE1CHL via 44Net:
Yes, and there are still operational e.g. yacy.dk0mav.ampr.org
Thank you for the link!
However, that is what I mean with 'not a "google" style textbox where you can only search for things of which you already know the name'. Unless I misunderstand Yacy it is just that.
Ok I see what you mean. From a users perspective I believe Yacy ist as you say.
I think what you are about is more like a curated web site or blog style (with searchable archive of course), yes?
This is not something that can be automated so easily, it requires someone who is passionate about the upkeep.
But I might be wrong and you have in mind something completely different.
On 12/30/20 5:32 PM, Roland Schwarz via 44Net wrote:
I think what you are about is more like a curated web site or blog style (with searchable archive of course), yes?
This is not something that can be automated so easily, it requires someone who is passionate about the upkeep.
Well, I do not expect to get an automatically written blog, but I do like to see a site where you can explore without previous knowledge. So in that, it indeed is more similar to a news or blog style than a search engine.
It could e.g. show some recently entered new items, and options to "show more like this" on such an item, "show such a service near to me", etc. (Yacy has something like that for geographical location)
It should be such that when you visit the site you may find out that people offer remote receivers, and that one technology in use is the "websdr", and then you can check which "websdr" servers there are on AMPRnet, where they are located, what bands they offer, etc. Without having to start with the seach term "websdr", which assumes you already know what that is.
I think that better aligns with the needs of the new user who has entered the "new world" of AMPRnet (or HAMradio in general) and whats to know what it has to offer, wants to learn, etc.
As long as it is not too large it could be as simple as showing a table of everything it knows, with options to sort, scroll through it, etc. But that of course can become unusable when there is lots of info.
Rob
On 30.12.20 at 17:47 wrote Rob PE1CHL via 44Net: ...
It should be such that when you visit the site you may find out that people offer remote receivers, and that one technology in use is the "websdr", and then you can check which "websdr" servers there are on AMPRnet, where they are located, what bands they offer, etc. Without having to start with the seach term "websdr", which assumes you already know what that is.
Possibly something like: http://news.ampr.at/ http://web.oe1.ampr.at/ (Sorry again, the page is in german only.)
I think that better aligns with the needs of the new user who has entered the "new world" of AMPRnet (or HAMradio in general) and whats to know what it has to offer, wants to learn, etc.
I am also using these sites regularly. I am sure there do exist others, but I do not know where. Even these sites are hard to find for a new local ham user.
I am also almost sure, sites like these do exist in the 44net, but unfortunately it is dark for me. Some link collection from the top of www.ampr.org possibly would help?
On 12/30/20 5:59 PM, Roland Schwarz via 44Net wrote:
Possibly something like: http://news.ampr.at/ http://web.oe1.ampr.at/
That is one way of approaching it, and we have sites like: https://hamnet.nl/ https://hobbyscoop.nl/
But in practice it turns out that it is hard to keep this going, as you need authors/editors willing to spend effort to write articles and keep the site attractive.
I was thinking more of a service directory, with the occasional explanatory text when it was entered by the owner, but with no maintenance to be done on the site itself. It would just get its feed from the systems that run each service.
But probably it is naive to think that it will be that self-running...
The only thing I know is that the question "what can I do with that Hamnet/AMPRnet connection" keeps coming back, and people are often interested when you mention certain services (like VoIP) and tell them all about it, but they would like it even more when they could find those things themselves and browse around to see what would be nice to try next.
Rob
On 30.12.20 at 18:18 wrote Rob PE1CHL via 44Net:
... but they would like it even more when they could find those things themselves and browse around to see what would be nice to try next.
Very true!
I used Yacy for a public facing ecommerce site. It really lacked any tools to manage intelligent search, it was basically just an index engine.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:09 AM Roland Schwarz via 44Net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 30.12.20 at 16:55 wrote Rob PE1CHL via 44Net: ..
With such a system, the risk of stale entries is a lot less. But I have
not
yet devised a way to refresh entries without limiting the platform on which they can run (a Linux or Windows system can easily schedule a job that runs some program to post a form, but I do not want to limit too
much
what platforms can provide and auto-refresh services)
Are you aware of
This is a distributed search engine. I do not have a lot of experience with it other than know about its existence. But perhaps this could be a solution? I know that the Germans once had such operational for some time https://www.dl0hgw.de/funk-technik/hamnet.html (Sorry the site is German language only) but it had disappeared from the net. If you like I can ask them about their experience and why the discontinued the service.
oe1rsa
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