Subject: Re: [44net] Proposal for allocation of AS numbers From: Egbert - DD9QP dd9qp@db0res-svr.ampr.org Date: 12/10/2015 08:46 PM

To: 44net@hamradio.ucsd.edu

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Well... We have been using that but the exact reason for this whole proposal was that I was extremely p*ssed off this week ...

LOL

Rob -

I think this is not the plenum and thread to discuss your emotional situation.

As I have heard some 3 weeks ago you occupied an additional ASN which was advertised to Slowenia since 2012 without asking maintainers or anybody else and without agreement from slowenia for using it. Well thats community rules and it works for 16 countries. I personaly think you did it by mistake because it was documented well only on 2 Sites in the net and you had no time to read it or ask some of the maintainers. Taking all this into account I can understand that others than you had some more reasons to get p*ssed off.

We were told that the place to register information was hamnetdb.net and indeed there is a list of AS numbers there. When we ran out of the 4 assigned numbers I took the next one (skipping one that was registered to Slovenia) which was not registered. It was only later that it turned out that there is another place where "blocks" of AS numbers are handed out, and not being registered on hamnetdb does not mean the AS is available.

In my experience, asking something to the maintainer of hamnetdb is not an effective way of getting knowledge.

...

Initially we (the Netherlands) got an allocation of 4 AS numbers,...

This was kind of an an initial "dummy" block assigned in 2010-2012 when the netherlands not even were thinking about joining that Network. We never heard of them until end 2014. Believe it or not: It was some German Guys that proposed in a very early planing phase to put the netherlands in for future use because they could not believe that the Netherlands would not be interested in the future. Some more guys that have reason to get p*ssed off now? Well it's your decision not to participate. Whenever a country ran out of ASN-space it got some more, without doing a caroussel for all others, but _after_ a request to the community/registry.

Packet radio has been all but dead here for over a decade, because of the fast deployment of flatrate always-on internet in our densely populated country. The interest in radio networking has only come back the past 2 years. We are setting up a network for experiments and for our multisite repeater network. We are more interested in experimenting than in copying a network concept that has already been rolled out elsewhere. We want to make sure we can interface with others, but we for sure don't want to walk on other people's leech. For example, we have a completely different view on how our network interfaces with Internet than your group has. And I think that is good, you should not blindly follow our ideas either.

We were notified of the AS allocation only last year, but apparently it existed longer than that. It turned out that the German Guys had decided how to divide the Netherlands into regions without discussing that concept with us. That is not the way we work anymore here, and it has been some time. Would you have deferred that allocation until after some discussion, that would also have been the moment to explain how those allocations are made and where they are registered. That never happened.

But anyhow, the problem was not that I had mistakenly taken an AS number that turned out to be assigned to someone else. I immediately offered to move that AS and asked for another block of numbers to put the AS and the next ones we needed.

What p*ssed me off is the SILLY policy of that registry that the AS numbers are assigned to a country by contiguous block, that the blocks are allocated without any space between them, and that the only way to get a block extended is to allocate a new block and move everything over.

Now, that would not have been too hard for the 5 numbers that we had in place, but I just don't want to be using a registry with a silly policy like that (there is no reason whatsoever why AS numbers need to be allocated in contiguous blocks!) and risk more and more useless renumbering in the future, so the decision was made to evacuate immediately to avoid further damage. (I was alerted to similar problems experienced by the people operating the DMR repeaters here and they have made a similar move recently)

Fortunately the availability of the 32-bit AS range means that there is no need for cooperation with people that want to manage others. We can just setup a system like the one we are discussing now, and there is no more need to work overtime to please the German Guys.

Rob, what you brought into this list is a question of behavior and how one should interact with a community, but it has nothing to do with technical reasons, so I am not willing to discuss this any more on this list or in this thread.

I think I have explained what the problem was and why we don't want to use your registry anymore. It has policy that has nothing to do with technical issues. The result is problems like the one we experienced. Indeed there is no need to reply anymore. Our position is clear, and the whole problem has been worked around. You can delete our registration, I have already removed all those AS numbers from hamnetdb objects.

Rob