18 Jul
2022
18 Jul
'22
10:59 p.m.
Hi all,
Here's what I received that morning from Vultr (my BGP provider), just
after a bunch of monitoring alarms :
The prefix owner has requested we remove the following
prefix from your account:
44.190.11.0/24
If you have any questions regarding this request, please reach out to the prefix owner
for more information, thanks!
Then, our whole island of Corsica is completely disconnected from the
rest of the world ! Without any advice. That becomes really annoying.
No more comments for today, because I do not have the right words in
English to tell my exact feeling. Maybe it's just time to say goodbye.
73 de TK1BI
18 Jul
18 Jul
11:33 p.m.
On 18/07/2022 23:59, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net wrote:
Hi all,
Here's what I received that morning from Vultr (my BGP provider), just
after a bunch of monitoring alarms :
This appears very odd
The problem is with the prefix owner or the problem is Vultr?
How can other people assist in cases like this?
Personally, I have helped a lot of independent VoIP operators with their
BGP strategy and I may be able to contribute some resources for the
amateur community.
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
The prefix owner has requested we remove the
following prefix from your account:
44.190.11.0/24
If you have any questions regarding this request, please reach out to the prefix owner
for more information, thanks!
Then, our whole island of Corsica is completely disconnected from the
rest of the world ! Without any advice. That becomes really annoying.
No more comments for today, because I do not have the right words in
English to tell my exact feeling. Maybe it's just time to say goodbye.
73 de TK1BI
11:43 p.m.
Le 19/07/2022 à 00:33, Daniel Pocock via 44net a écrit :
The problem is with the prefix owner or the problem is
Vultr?
Vultr just applied what the "IP owner" asked them to do ! At least, they
could have allowed a "grace period" (ie, 24h) before shutting down the
BGP sessions.
How can other people assist in cases like this?
I'll drop definitely the usage of 44net addressing, because this is the
3rd time it happens, and I'm really tired ! If you want to know why so
few people are using 44net addresses, then, here's one reason. At least
for me !
--
About help : if someone here is involved in LIR activity in Europe, and
can provide commercial IPv4 range at "non-profit" budget to a
radio-club, then, please send your proposals in PM.
73 de TK1BI
19 Jul
19 Jul
6:32 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 3:44 PM Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Le 19/07/2022 à 00:33, Daniel Pocock via 44net a écrit
:
We also saw ALTDB routing registry database changes for our AS this week
contrary to the latest communication and LoA we have from ARDC. These
summary changes are quite a shock. Not sure what Chris G1FEF is up to.
Tom KD7LXL
The problem is with the prefix owner or the
problem is Vultr?
Vultr just applied what the "IP owner" asked them to do ! At least, they
could have allowed a "grace period" (ie, 24h) before shutting down the
BGP sessions.
5:42 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2022, Tom Hayward via 44net wrote:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 3:44 PM Toussaint OTTAVI
wrote:
Could you post/share precisely (ie. diff) what the changes were?
-Paul
Vultr just applied what the "IP owner"
asked them to do !
We also saw ALTDB routing registry database changes for our AS this week
contrary to the latest communication and LoA we have from ARDC. 
2:30 a.m.
Maybe send a private email to G1FEF or another ARDC representative, to
try and find out what's going on (if anything) from the ARDC end?
On 19/7/22 7:59 am, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net wrote:
Hi all,
Here's what I received that morning from Vultr (my BGP provider), just
after a bunch of monitoring alarms :
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
The prefix owner has requested we remove the
following prefix from your account:
44.190.11.0/24
If you have any questions regarding this request, please reach out to the prefix owner
for more information, thanks!
Then, our whole island of Corsica is completely disconnected from the
rest of the world ! Without any advice. That becomes really annoying.
No more comments for today, because I do not have the right words in
English to tell my exact feeling. Maybe it's just time to say goodbye.
73 de TK1BI
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10:14 a.m.
Hi Tony,
Le 19/07/2022 à 03:30, Tony Langdon via 44net a écrit :
Maybe send a private email to G1FEF or another ARDC
representative, to
try and find out what's going on (if anything) from the ARDC end?
Of course, I did that before posting here. The only proposal was a new,
different IP range, and the need of renumbering some dozens of sites
over a whole island in a hurry, after the full network has been taken
down without even a warning email ! Things that have been written have
obviously not been respected. Hardly anyone seems to see what's wrong
there. It's a "normal" process, and it's entirely my fault :-) I even
received an answer starting with "LAST WARNING" in capitals...
I am an engineer, not a philosopher and even less a polemicist. That's
what makes me think it's time to give up, and leave ARDC to its millions
and its technologies of the past century. Fishing is probably a more
relaxing and satisfying hobby than 44Net ham radio ;-)
73 de TK1BI
10:29 a.m.
You received that because you continued to spam your issue to several unrelated people
including me, even after I asked you not to do that. This has nothing to do with ARDC,
it
is just against your way of handling the issue by doing CC to as many people as possible.
Rob
On 7/19/22 11:14, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net wrote:
I even received an answer starting with "LAST
WARNING" in capitals...
11:08 a.m.
Le 19/07/2022 à 11:29, Rob PE1CHL via 44net a écrit :
You received that because you continued to spam your
issue to several unrelated people
including me,
You were in copy of those emails because :
1/ You are a member of the Technical Advisory Group, as stated here :
https://www.ampr.org/about/who-we-are/
If members of the TAC are not interested in technical issues with IP
address management, then, please accept my apology.
2/ You were on my personal list of people I considered skilled and
valuable on this list. It seems I made a mistake. Please accept, again,
my apology.
even after I asked you not to do that.
Sorry, but I missed that. If I saw that answer, I would certainly not
have bothered you again with problems that are of no interest to you ;-)
Sorry, again.
it is just against your way of handling the issue by
doing CC to as many people as possible.
Here is the exact copy of the header of my private mails :
To: Chris - G1FEF<chris(a)ardc.net>
Cc: Jann Traschewski<dg8ngn(a)darc.de>de>, Rob PE1CHL<44net(a)pe1chl.nl>nl>,
pete M<petem001(a)hotmail.com>
Please accept again my apologies, but English is not my primary
language, and I may have misunderstood the meaning of "spam" and "as
many people as possible".
--
The purpose of those mails was to talk in private about that problem
with people considered as valuable, and before posting publicly. If this
hurt someone, then, please accept again my apologies. That means it's
really time for me to leave.
73 de TK1BI
10:14 a.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2022, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net wrote:
To: Chris - G1FEF<chris(a)ardc.net>
Cc: Jann Traschewski<dg8ngn(a)darc.de>de>, Rob PE1CHL<44net(a)pe1chl.nl>nl>,
pete M<petem001(a)hotmail.com>
I think the lesson to be learnt (again). Is to *copy* those emails to
44net@, because:
1. it helps to keep things civil and factual
2. it is apparent to all when progress is being made (or not)
3. is likely to reduce "misunderstandings"
Chris/Jann/Rob/Pete/Toussaint: would you be able to write a "just the
facts" high-level summary + timeline of the situation. This would
help to bring others up to speed..
-Paul
11:41 a.m.
I don't know the content of private conversation but I found Toussaint's
public posts interesting and with a lot of valuable content, so I'm a
bit surprised of what is happening.
Maybe is a cultural thing? I was few years an admin of Google Summer of
Code, a stipendium program for open-source projects and dealing with
students all over the world. Therefore I learned the hard way what the
cultural differences mean. Even in Europe, not to mention the whole world.
My advice to the ARDC team would therefore be to think twice before
ending up with such harsh actions as the shutdown the entire region from
the internet certainly is. Specially because the ARDC's publicly stated
goal is to be really international, in true spirit of Amateur Radio.
Best 73
Janko S57NK
Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net je 19. 07. 22 ob 12:08 napisal:
Le 19/07/2022 à 11:29, Rob PE1CHL via 44net a écrit :
You received that because you continued to spam
your issue to several unrelated people
including me,
You were in copy of those emails because :
1/ You are a member of the Technical Advisory Group, as stated here :
https://www.ampr.org/about/who-we-are/
If members of the TAC are not interested in technical issues with IP
address management, then, please accept my apology.
2/ You were on my personal list of people I considered skilled and
valuable on this list. It seems I made a mistake. Please accept, again,
my apology.
even after I asked you not to do that.
Sorry, but I missed that. If I saw that answer, I would certainly not
have bothered you again with problems that are of no interest to you ;-)
Sorry, again.
it is just against your way of handling the issue
by doing CC to as many people as possible.
Here is the exact copy of the header of my private mails :
To: Chris - G1FEF<chris(a)ardc.net>
Cc: Jann Traschewski<dg8ngn(a)darc.de>de>, Rob PE1CHL<44net(a)pe1chl.nl>nl>,
pete M<petem001(a)hotmail.com>
Please accept again my apologies, but English is not my primary
language, and I may have misunderstood the meaning of "spam" and "as
many people as possible".
--
The purpose of those mails was to talk in private about that problem
with people considered as valuable, and before posting publicly. If this
hurt someone, then, please accept again my apologies. That means it's
really time for me to leave.
73 de TK1BI
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5:43 p.m.
On 7/19/22 12:08, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net wrote:
I just got my message back after a day because medi.fr mailserver is broken and my mail
cannot be sent to it.
(bad TLS configuration)
So you could not know that I sent you a warning. Sorry for that.
But still I think you should not send copies of your issue to current and previous members
of the TAC.
I don't like to get pulled into an existing conflict that is already getting out of
hand, as I have no say in the
policies and no way to resolve the conflict.
The suggestion to send it to this list is better.
Rob
You were in copy of those emails because :
1/ You are a member of the Technical Advisory Group, as stated here :
https://www.ampr.org/about/who-we-are/
If members of the TAC are not interested in technical issues with IP address management,
then, please accept my apology.
2/ You were on my personal list of people I considered skilled and valuable on this list.
It seems I made a mistake. Please accept, again, my apology.
I think you misunderstand the position of the TAC. The TAC is only ADVISORY. We do not
determine policy.
I am myself against the policy of renumbering existing allocations before a decision has
been made on how
to go forward with the network, but I have no influence on the ongoing practice as
implemented by Chris G1FEF.
(nor do I have a description of what that policy exactly entails)
even after I asked you not to do that.
Sorry, but I missed that. If I saw that answer, I would certainly not have bothered you
again with problems that are of no interest to you ;-) Sorry, again.
8:12 p.m.
Le 19/07/2022 à 18:43, Rob PE1CHL via 44net a écrit :
I think you misunderstand the position of the TAC.
The TAC is only ADVISORY. We do not determine policy.
I am myself against the policy of renumbering existing allocations before a decision has
been made on how
to go forward with the network, but I have no influence on the ongoing practice as
implemented by Chris G1FEF.
(nor do I have a description of what that policy exactly entails)
Sorry again for the inconvenience. This is IMHO a severe drawback about
ARDC working methods ! A "company" that wants to be technical but does
not listen to its engineers and technical advisors doesn't really
deserve our attention. At least not to do technical work. Just because
it's free doesn't mean we don't deserve a little respect. Especially in
what is meant to be a "community".
73 de TK1BI
20 Jul
20 Jul
4:30 p.m.
"The TAC is only ADVISORY".
Sorry I'm not hamnet expert :-)
Then, In case of TK1BI what's the solution?
WHO could change the situation .... ?
F1sxo
Frédéric ZULIAN
Le mar. 19 juil. 2022 à 21:13, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> a écrit :
Le 19/07/2022 à 18:43, Rob PE1CHL via 44net a écrit :
I think you misunderstand the position of the
TAC. The TAC is only
ADVISORY. We do not determine policy.
I am myself against the policy of renumbering
existing allocations
before a decision has been made on how
to go forward with the network, but I have no
influence on the ongoing
practice as implemented by Chris G1FEF.
(nor do I have a description of what that policy
exactly entails)
Sorry again for the inconvenience. This is IMHO a severe drawback about
ARDC working methods ! A "company" that wants to be technical but does
not listen to its engineers and technical advisors doesn't really
deserve our attention. At least not to do technical work. Just because
it's free doesn't mean we don't deserve a little respect. Especially in
what is meant to be a "community".
73 de TK1BI
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9 p.m.
New subject: Time to say "Goodbye".
Hi all,
Coming home after a hard day's work, our TKNet Atlas probe is still
miserably down :
https://atlas.ripe.net/probes/53207/#tab-general
11 emails in the last two days did not help. It seems I'm still doing
things "the wrong way"...
I will retain : "Misunderstandings", "Your prefix validation was
rejected.", "ARDC have no plans to provide an SLA of any kind" and
"There is no guarantee that the IPs will remain available, ARDC also
reserve the right to withdraw permission to use addresses for any reason."
It's now time to blow the whistle ! ARDC won't have to withdraw our IPs,
I'll give them back. It's now official : Corsica does not participate
anymore in HamNet or 44Net networks.
I will be unavailable from this evening and for the next 2 weeks.
Unfortunately, our island will remain cut off from the world during that
period. My apologies to external HAMs that won't be able to contact
insular people with "Internet" protocols such as Echolink, D-Star or
DMR. My apologies to our partners and hosts, too, which may loose parts
of their Internet connectivity and/or services. Workarounds will be
setup ASAP. More Actions will be taken when I'm back, including fully
redundant routing with failover on reliable IPs.
The project of 5 GHz links between Corsica and France is maintained.
Anyway, even if the radio link works, there may be nothing useful to
carry on such links. Sorry for those who already bought the equipment.
Our TKNet network will continue its development, as a standalone,
island-wide network. It will remain open, highly dedicated to
experiment, and we'll be able to peer with any of our neighbors, with
any modern technology. Moreover; if ARDC manages, in the next few years,
to build the expected "New Generation Network", we'll be happy to peer
with it, too.
It's now time to say "Goodbye" to everybody here, and good luck to those
who stay :-) I'll continue reading some very valuable posts on this
mailing-list. And, maybe, also, some others...
73 de TK1BI
PS : If ARDC wants to know why so few people are using 44net for their
digital communications, I have some clues...
21 Jul
21 Jul
8:39 a.m.
New subject: Time to say "Goodbye".
Hello,
concerning this story I took my time before answering...
So as not to make the same language errors.
😉
Chris is very involved in the management of this network.
I do not appreciate that people speaks bad thing about him.
🙁
Go on https://annuaire-amateurs.anfr.fr and insert "20" in "code
postal".
"20" is The Corsica and until proven otherwise it is France.
There are about 200 radio amateurs on the island.
Lot of hams in France do not use Hamnet, take a large value of 10% of
them.
That would make 20 peoples interested by Hamnet in Corsica ?
====================================
Number of hamnet user in Corsica
So I'll keep the number 50, you'll see why later.
====================================
==================================================
===================== Hystory =====================
==================================================
Now a bit of history.
around the 2000s i wanted to have a little fun with Hamnet. I was
looking for
who took care of Hamnet in France. I find ther person and he tells me
that he's tired with french users,
that if I wanted to take over management, I could.
I was not very interested in management, I asked french radio amateurs
and nobody wanted
to do it. So I kept up to date the "French Hamnet IPs" 44.151.
One day the site ampr.org appeared and Chris or Brian (Kantor) contact me
to ask me if i want to coordinate on the site the 44.151 IPs.
I searched for all radio amateurs who had an IP to register.
It was done
==================================================
================= 1st type encounter =================
==================================================
People from the so-called french national association contact me when
hamnet begins to be known in France.
They tell me that they want to take over the management of the IPs and
want to reset all.
I refuse because nearly 300 french people are having fun with IPs and
they didn't ask for anything.
I suggest that they pass on the management of half of the IPs to them
: 44.151.128.0 / 17
No more answer from the french "national" association and after a
while I see appear 44.168
I asked Brian Kantor about it.
He told me that he had been told that 44.151 was for packet and that
France needed more IPs...
That was obviously wrong and i explained what i just explained to Brian
Brian, amused by the situation, answered me: Ah these French, they are
indeed the descendants of Napoleon.
😂
There is no competition between 44.151 and 44.168 , the organization
is different... see
https://portal.ampr.org/networks.php?a=region&id=295
and
https://portal.ampr.org/networks.php?a=region&id=631
==================================================
============= encounter of the 2nd type ================
==================================================
Now TK1BI contact me in order to have IP for Corsica.
From my memory He asked me for a /16 domain ...
65 534 IPs for 50 persons ?! (remember the number 50 up...)
😂
I logically "offer" him IPs in 44.151.20
Corsica is just a french department like the others.
He refused.
(it was before the possibility of requesting an allocation for BGP)
So end for me.
By the claim of the delete of the 44.190 allocation, I discovered at
the same time as you
that TK1BI had managed to get its /16... He is very clever, like the
french "national" association.
So... 44.151 + 44.168 + 44.190 => almost 200 000 IP v4 for... 13 000
frenchs hams
I am almost certain that less than 1000 French radio amateurs are
interested in hamnet...
😉
==================================================
============= encounter of the 3nd type ================
==================================================
Nothing, no E.T. contact me. 😛
So BGP are available now on the 44 net. No problem, now possible to
have /16 in BGP with Hamnet.
I was contacted to warn those who had a BGP that the IPs were going to
migrate. For the moment they are here :
https://portal.ampr.org/networks.php?a=region&id=1010
44.151.128.0 / 24 F5RRY - BGP via AS212760 F5RRY
44.151.129.0 / 24 F5PBG - BGP via AS212972 F5PBG
44.151.139.0 / 24 F4ALM - BGP via AS64769 F4ALM
44.151.200.0 / 24 F4HIN - BGP via AS209097 F4HIN
44.151.210.0 / 23 F4INU - BGP via AS206155 F4INU
44.151.220.0 / 24 F4HVX - BGP via AS51083 F4HVX
No problem for us.
I don't see why this would be a problem for TK1BI (no need to answer,
I read the arguments).
In summary, why this message ?
To show that the French correspond to the well-known caricature ?
They look for side roads by shunting intermediaries.
They protest for almost nothing.
😉
Does TK1BI represent all Corsicans ?
I hope there is not only one person to configure all the equipments in
Corsica.
😂
If Corsicans want to have Hamnet IPs, they will go through the french
coords 44.151 or 44.168.
In summary, all my support to those who allow us to have fun with this
amateur network.
I think about Chris - G1FEF of course and all others personns in all
countries
Let's stay in the spirit of Brian kantor.
Best regards,
Ludovic Vuillermet - F5PBG
http://f5pbg.free.fr
12:58 p.m.
New subject: Time to say "Goodbye".
Le 21/07/2022 à 09:39, f5pbg--- via 44net a écrit :
If Corsicans want to have Hamnet IPs, they will go through the french
coords 44.151 or 44.168.
Of course, they can ! :-)
Historically, the first iteration of TKNet was not built to face user's
requests, but mostly as a backbone for sysops, for technical purposes
(low point / high point interconnect, repeater linking, high point
monitoring, remote control...). It was using private addressing
(10.0.0.0/8).
Even today, the IP demand here is mostly from technical users / repeater
maintainers. "Normal" users don't ever know what 44net addresses are !
Users usually ask for an analog or D-Star repeater to cover their area,
but they do not ask for IPv4 at home. They already have all what they
need with ready-to-use RPi distributions, f/ex, Pi-Star, DVSwitch, RRF
Hotspot, etc...
That's why later iterations of TKNet evolved to something more modern,
with Plug and Play "TKBoxes" (basically, a $30 OpenWRT router with
OpenVPN / Wireguard / iBGP), connecting to a "POP" (a bunch of Linux
servers in a data center). Nothing very new, of course. Lots of people
are building similar (but different) networks over the world. But it
eliminates what I call "things of the past" : IP-IP routing with hacked
software and plain-text passwords, and need to open a "protocol" on the
Internet box (not easy, often undoable on current ISP boxes, and often,
there's no access at all to the Internet box).
Moreover, latest iteration of TKNet also offers dual addressing on every
site, with both Intranet/Hamnet and public Internet addressing, just by
plugging things on the right port of the router (all the "magic" being
done automatically between the TKBox and the POP).
--
I said several times that, IMHO, a key for mass adoption of dedicated
amateur radio "Intranet" is :
- building a common backbone and common routing policies
- a complete redesign of user access with modern technologies
- a P2P / meshed network structure, so that anybody is not tied to
anybody, and can decide to connect where he wants
This would make things easier to manage for sysops, and completely Plug
and Play for end users.
That's what we are trying to do here, at our modest level, in Corsica.
With anybody that is wiling to participate. And with or without 44net
addresses, HI :-)
73 de TK1BI
652
days inactive
655
days old
17 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Daniel Pocock -
f5pbg＠free.fr -
Frederic Zulian -
Janko Mivšek -
Paul Sladen -
Rob PE1CHL -
Tom Hayward -
Tony Langdon -
Toussaint OTTAVI