Hello list, I have been lurking for a while but this topic is something I have expertise in. Although I am a professional wireless guy, having installed more than a thousand wireless devices throughout the world, I am mainly a broker for the sale of IPv4 addresses. As a broker I am intimately familiar with the market, the transition from IPv4 to IPv6, and the history of the Internet. Like many in the ham community, I am getting up there in years, I had an ARPANET account in 1978. There are few sources of information in the IPv4 market, in particular there is no record of the price paid for each transaction. I have brokered 424 transfers since 2012, and I offer the information I have gleaned to this community. Hopefully it will assist the community in making appropriate choices going forward. As to my bona fides, I am an MIT grad, I run a network of WiFi hotspots in about 80 cities, I have experience working with satellite communications, Mikrotik routers, UBNT wireless gear, and rural communications. I am the author of transfer policies in North America (ARIN) and South America (LACNIC). I have brokered transfers to over 60 countries. The 44/8, as Mr. Kantor intimated, is the target of hungry brokers. This is because since the middle of 2016 there has been a dearth of sellers of large blocks of addresses (> 1 million) while there are many buyers looking for large blocks. Having read the list for a while, it seems like what was a great idea 30 years ago has been overtaken by events, and FCC regulations require changes to allow ham technologies to develop usable networks. But it seems like the lobbying arm of the ham community has been unable to secure these changes. And it also seems like regulatory changes might allow for a more modern approach which would be more exciting for newcomers and provide incentive for hacking around for solutions to some edge problems, such as those experienced by those living without cabled broadband in heavily wooded areas. We use 900Mhz for this but the lower UHF bands would be better. VHF better still. I guess it would help to have funding to achieve these changes, whether to pay a more prominent lobbyist, or to develop a prototype device or application to support the change in regulation. The 44/8 block is worth over $300 million today. As IPv6 becomes the dominant protocol, the 44/8 block will become valueless. IPv4 addresses can be sold in blocks as small as /24 or 256 addresses. The 44 block contains 65,536 of these /24s. A few on this list have started to make the hard decision that some of the old stuff laying in sheds and garages has become worthless due to the march of technology. The 44/8 block will likewise become another hunk of once-valuable junk, so unless the community wishes to enjoy again the bittersweet feeling of regarding that junk it would be advisable to consider engaging in some sales. I have looked at the numbering scheme for the 44 block, and there seem to be relatively obvious ways to renumber into a more efficiently used system, freeing up large swathes of address space. Renumbering is a challenge that will stress the AMPR network, but we find that it leads to much more efficient use of address space and it provides an opportunity to re-evaluate current allocations to see if they are still in use. So to the members of this list I offer my knowledge and expertise on this subject, and whatever I can offer in terms of Mikrotiks, BGP, tunneling, dual-stack, asymmetrical satellite, and wireless in the nGhz and 900Mhz bands. Regards, Mike Burns PS That information about the 44-related invention of CIDR was wonderful, I had no idea of its genesis. It's ironic that CIDR saved the IPv4 internet from exhaust 20 years ago. -----Original Message----- From: 44Net [mailto:44net-bounces+mike=sum.net@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Steve L Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 2:36 AM To: 44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [44net] An anniversary of a sort - 36 years Bill, The best person to answer is Brian Kantor. Till he chimes in... I don't expect to see IPv4 switched off on the general internet in my lifetime. The adoption rate of v6 is pretty sad. We don't even have everyone dual stacks yet. There has been some casual discussions from foreign hams to try and get an IPv6 allocation for ham radio from RIPE ( I believe).. but there will be so many addresses available I am not even sure ham radio needs its own allocation. Moving forward the whole online ham authentication thing (that OH7LZB has pointed out) makes more sense in my opinion. Use one of your many-many IPv6 addreses from your ISP, but add some sort of authentication to the process of interacting with other ham services. That is presently a lure of 44net.. knowing the guy on the other end is a ham, and whatever traffic is being generated (VOIP, data etc) should it key an actual transmitter it will be legit. [There was a proposal in 1998 to encode a "call sign" into IPv6 address titled "Take the Next Step with the Next Generation Protocol" by Naoto Shimazaki. And in 2012 a few members from the Mesa Amateur Radio Club of Arizona took this to code.) I guess the more pertinent questions I have for Brian would be: Are there a plan so that folks who only have IPv6 commercial address or are suck behind carrier grade IPv4 with no firewall access (some cellular carriers presently) can participate with the amprnet? In other words are there plans to make amprgw dual stack? 73 Steve, KB9MWR net, after all, and my first >reaction to thinking of IPv6 is "Do I have to?" don't know if/when the ampr.net >will switchover, nor how it will affect the existing 44/8 allocations. Brian? _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net