2 Apr
2014
2 Apr
'14
3:11 p.m.
If the answer to either of the above is
"yes", then there is the potential
for traffic which violates radio licensing laws to be carried by radio.
And
after all, I thought RADIO was what 44-net was
supposed to be about?
No, 44net is a PUBLIC IP address range. There are plenty of PRIVATE IP
ranges that we can freely and arbitrarily use without care or regard
whatsoever, and the 10/8 network is large enough for hams to build a
substantial world-wide network without further ado.
Why my main concern is with all this 44net stuff, and what we're seeing a
lot of, is peoples' scaremongering and huge propensity to self-regulate and
self-police to the absurd, resulting in the 44net never being any more than
another reason to have an argument on some forum and then sit back on our
arse and do nothing whatsoever. If this is actually going to be the case
then my recommendation would be to find some facebook group or other forum
to put ones' efforts into, and see if you might stir up some irrational
waste-of-time argument there, because doing it in a 44net forum is likely
to, at the very least, cause quite a few people to just give up, and at the
very worst, have someone very concisely and perhaps not so politely explain
the problem to you.
Steve
2 Apr
2 Apr
3:31 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
-----Original Message-----
No, 44net is a PUBLIC IP address range. There are plenty of PRIVATE IP
ranges that we can freely and arbitrarily use without care or regard
whatsoever, and the 10/8 network is large enough for hams to build a
substantial world-wide network without further ado.
[N6MEF] Steve, that's simply absurd. Go back and read the previous posts
about address conflicts.
Why my main concern is with all this 44net stuff, and what we're seeing a
lot of, is peoples' scaremongering and huge propensity to self-regulate and
self-police to the absurd, resulting in the 44net never being any more than
another reason to have an argument on some forum and then sit back on our
arse and do nothing whatsoever. If this is actually going to be the case
then my recommendation would be to find some facebook group or other forum
to put ones' efforts into, and see if you might stir up some irrational
waste-of-time argument there, because doing it in a 44net forum is likely
to, at the very least, cause quite a few people to just give up, and at the
very worst, have someone very concisely and perhaps not so politely explain
the problem to you.
[N6MEF] Before chastising others, you should look in the mirror. I believe
it was you who started this thread.
[N6MEF] I specifically asked what problem you were trying to solve. No
answer. I specifically asked how many systems/services you were currently
running. No answer. So who's the one who's just stirring up argument with
no real end goal?
[N6MEF] Many people provided you with respectful and useful responses. But
your statement above demonstrates that you're either unwilling or unable to
pay attention to or learn from their responses. Either way, maybe you
should take your own advice: enjoy net 10 and leave the rest of us alone.
Michael
N6MEF
4:12 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
If you need other private address space consider... 100.64.0.0/10 as
defined in RFC-6598.
On 4/2/14, 12:31 PM, Michael E Fox - N6MEF wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
No, 44net is a PUBLIC IP address range. There are plenty of PRIVATE IP
ranges that we can freely and arbitrarily use without care or regard
whatsoever, and the 10/8 network is large enough for hams to build a
substantial world-wide network without further ado.
[N6MEF] Steve, that's simply absurd. Go back and read the previous posts
about address conflicts.
Why my main concern is with all this 44net stuff, and what we're seeing a
lot of, is peoples' scaremongering and huge propensity to self-regulate and
self-police to the absurd, resulting in the 44net never being any more than
another reason to have an argument on some forum and then sit back on our
arse and do nothing whatsoever. If this is actually going to be the case
then my recommendation would be to find some facebook group or other forum
to put ones' efforts into, and see if you might stir up some irrational
waste-of-time argument there, because doing it in a 44net forum is likely
to, at the very least, cause quite a few people to just give up, and at the
very worst, have someone very concisely and perhaps not so politely explain
the problem to you.
[N6MEF] Before chastising others, you should look in the mirror. I believe
it was you who started this thread.
[N6MEF] I specifically asked what problem you were trying to solve. No
answer. I specifically asked how many systems/services you were currently
running. No answer. So who's the one who's just stirring up argument with
no real end goal?
[N6MEF] Many people provided you with respectful and useful responses. But
your statement above demonstrates that you're either unwilling or unable to
pay attention to or learn from their responses. Either way, maybe you
should take your own advice: enjoy net 10 and leave the rest of us alone.
Michael
N6MEF
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
4:38 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
At 12:31 PM 04/02/14, you wrote:
[N6MEF] Many people provided you with respectful and
useful responses. But
your statement above demonstrates that you're either unwilling or unable to
pay attention to or learn from their responses. Either way, maybe you
should take your own advice: enjoy net 10 and leave the rest of us alone.
I know that those of us who route 44.x.x.x have routing tables from
"44.x.x.x Point A", to "44.x.x.x Point B" and the 44.x.x.x addresses
that I use on my system, won't be duplicated on someone else's 44 system.
I know I'd be pissed to find someone else using my 44 numbers on their
system.
But, if I use 10.x.x.x numbers, and someone else used 10.x.x.x numbers,
there is an inherent chance that some of the numbering schemes used might
actually get duplicated from system to system.
One person might start using 10.0.0.1, 10.0.0.2 and so on.
And any number of thousands of others users might use the same exact
approach.
So, I wonder in those instances of duplicate addresses, if the packets
might crash because the return route might get sent sideways do to a
route table duplication somewhere on either end, or even somewhere in
the middle.
I know I'm not going to re-configure all my stations and convince several
other hams to do the same, just for the sake of testing how to crash packet
routes with numerous duplicate ip's in the chain.... YIKES !
Bill
KG6BAJ
6:19 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:38 PM, William Lewis <kg6baj(a)n1oes.org> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
But, if I use 10.x.x.x numbers, and someone else used 10.x.x.x numbers,
there is an inherent chance that some of the numbering schemes used might
actually get duplicated from system to system.
One person might start using 10.0.0.1, 10.0.0.2 and so on.
The difference here is that RFC1918 space addresses (
10.0.0.0/8;172.16.0.0/12;192.168.0.0/16) are consider unroutable addresses
and will be dropped by the first border gateway router it runs into (or
sooner). In large ISP's, these are considered private management space
IP's keeping the backend running while routing the public IP addresses.
44.0.0.0/8 is considered routable space as it is not included in the
RFC1918 specification. Hence all of the chatter since it is publically
routable IP space.
4:35 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
lot of, is peoples' scaremongering and huge
propensity to self-regulate
and
self-police to the absurd, resulting in the 44net never being any more
than
another reason to have an argument on some forum and then sit back on our
arse and do nothing whatsoever.
Derrrrr, all I did was ask for clarification. I don't remember anything
argumentative or scaremongering in my request.
It was my belief that amprnet is/was synonymous with 44-net, and was
originally all about building a internet-like network over RADIO, long
before everyone had access to broadband etc. I was there, back in the
1980's, but obviously time must have fogged my memory. Or maybe the focus of
amprnet has changed over time.
I don't care one way or the other. I have no axe to grind; all I wanted was
clarification on how to set my system up.
I am grateful to those who answered my question, and I have learned that
there is no definitive answer to it. So I shall go back to sleep and forget
all about it again :-)
73, Paula
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is
active.
http://www.avast.com
4:43 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
Paula:
I would like to say it's a privilege to know you.
Thank you for all your hard work over the years with Xrouter.
I still maintain a windows 95 computer running XRouter in DOS,
and WinFBB on the Windows side for fun and play.
While my main system is JNOS, I hate the fact that JNOS does
not (...yet...) have all the cool features you packed into
XRouter.
You're an awesome gal! :)
Bill
KG6BAJ
At 01:35 PM 04/02/14, you wrote:
Derrrrr, all I did was ask for clarification. I
don't remember anything
argumentative or scaremongering in my request.
It was my belief that amprnet is/was synonymous with 44-net, and was
originally all about building a internet-like network over RADIO, long
before everyone had access to broadband etc. I was there, back in the
1980's, but obviously time must have fogged my memory. Or maybe the focus
of amprnet has changed over time.
I don't care one way or the other. I have no axe to grind; all I wanted
was clarification on how to set my system up.
I am grateful to those who answered my question, and I have learned that
there is no definitive answer to it. So I shall go back to sleep and
forget all about it again :-)
73, Paula
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
11:01 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
well, the way I use 44-net is both promote/propagate radio links and
internet links...I'm still of the feeling that the internet is and
should not be the be-all/do-all in one basket...especially for us hams
and even just hobbyists that are not hams (yet, heh)..I can never forget
my wide-eyed interest in seeing my first arp packets figure out an rf
route to another 44-net destination over 1200b rf..only to get scolded
by node barons for using tcpip over rf and tying up the freq. so that
bbs users had gotten slightly slowed down, lol, what a rogue I was :-)
If the internet ever goes down, we have a way to actually network with
44-net over rf, albeit slowly, not many others can help in such a way on
such a scale...we can provide a service if needed and set it up rather
quickly, just add rf links and hops.....but I'm sure there are better
protocols that could be used, as tcp/ip would be excruciating at, say,
300b HF, lol...
rock on Paula and all active hams...great to see interest and discussion...
Cheers,
John
On 04/02/2014 05:43 PM, William Lewis wrote:
> (Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
> _______________________________________________
> Paula:
>
> I would like to say it's a privilege to know you.
>
> Thank you for all your hard work over the years with Xrouter.
>
> I still maintain a windows 95 computer running XRouter in DOS,
> and WinFBB on the Windows side for fun and play.
>
> While my main system is JNOS, I hate the fact that JNOS does
> not (...yet...) have all the cool features you packed into
> XRouter.
>
> You're an awesome gal! :)
>
> Bill
> KG6BAJ
>
> At 01:35 PM 04/02/14, you wrote:
>> Derrrrr, all I did was ask for clarification. I don't remember
>> anything argumentative or scaremongering in my request.
>>
>> It was my belief that amprnet is/was synonymous with 44-net, and was
>> originally all about building a internet-like network over RADIO,
>> long before everyone had access to broadband etc. I was there, back
>> in the 1980's, but obviously time must have fogged my memory. Or
>> maybe the focus of amprnet has changed over time.
>>
>> I don't care one way or the other. I have no axe to grind; all I
>> wanted was clarification on how to set my system up.
>>
>> I am grateful to those who answered my question, and I have learned
>> that there is no definitive answer to it. So I shall go back to sleep
>> and forget all about it again :-)
>>
>> 73, Paula
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> 44Net mailing list
>> 44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
>> http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
>
6:31 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Paula <g8pzt(a)blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
It was my belief that amprnet is/was synonymous with 44-net, and was
originally all about building a internet-like network over RADIO, long
before everyone had access to broadband etc. I was there, back in the
1980's, but obviously time must have fogged my memory. Or maybe the focus
of amprnet has changed over time.
I don't think it's always been about radio on 44-net. Considering KA9Q
was
installed on many DOS machines to access telnet/ftp/gopher services I think
it was more about reserving space so that hams could start that "internet
of things" before it became today's popular buzzword. When the space was
reserved, most of the networks connected were corporate, educational and
governmental entities (speaking back to post ARPAnet but pre commercial
internet - the NSFNet). It wasn't until the 90's when commercial demand
picked up for the Internet and dotcom's later here we are today.
But we still have this legacy space.
I think people should look at this space as a network first and
medium/content/errata second. What's the point of interconnection to the
larger world if you don't use it? One might as well use more radio
efficient protocols then like AX25/Node or FlDigi Multicast due to speed
limitations.
I don't care one way or the other. I have no axe
to grind; all I wanted
was clarification on how to set my system up.
First place to start is portal.ampr.org to request IP space from your
coordinator. The rest is some routing/encapsulation trickery.
7:09 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
But we still have this legacy space.
I think people should look at this space as a network first and
medium/content/errata second. What's the point of interconnection to the
larger world if you don't use it? One might as well use more radio
efficient protocols then like AX25/Node or FlDigi Multicast due to speed
limitations.
HAM-Radio nowadays is so much more then just "Radio".
HAM-Radio spans almost every technical discipline out there, and is
very good in being used for educational purposes.
From the hams who make their own antenna parts on a
lathe, to the hams
who build and repair tranceivers, the hams who setup (ham)-voice
over
ip like echolink/dstar/.. and every ham who thinkers on a subpart of
"ham radio" in between and beyond. The 44net also has a place here,
for the ham who likes to experiment with networks, but just likes to
go a bit farther then his own home lan network into something bigger.
The 44net. Basically IP can run on anything, so it can run in AX25
radio, PPP tunnels between machines, tunnels over the public internet,
the public internet itself, wifi, sattelite, dstar, and possible
technologies to come.
HAM-Radio for me is still about experimentation. And I am from a
generation where the commercial internet just began to come up when I
was in my teens. I also got my HAM-Radio license in my teens primarely
to do packet radio since I was interested in computernetworks. Since
dialup internet was so expensive this was the best next thing for me.
When I went to college I had no problem understanding how layer 1 and
layer 2 networks work because I had seen all the AX25 packets
scrolling by in the monitor window in my packet terminal, and in the
end I finished up as a computernetwork engineer.
Most of my dayjob is still about big corporate lan networks, connected
by vpn tunnels and being natted to a few public ips.
But I want to experiment with more. I want to experiment with the
internet with public IPs, see what happens, I want to experiment with
BGP, transit and peering.
And I have found a group of HAMs who share my passion and we have
build a big wireless network as our playground, based on commercial
wifi equipment.
All of these HAMs also love other disciplines in the variety of HAM
radio. Like the OM who does most of the wifi setups and alignments
used to be a fervent ATV contester on the microwave bands. So he has
the gear and knowledge to measure and do things with wifi antenna's I
have no clue about. And I learn from him. On the other hand I am
fluent in debugging computernetworks. And they learn from me. And
everyone who is working on our network has his own passions in the ham
radio community that they can apply to other parts of ham radio and
learn from eachother.
And in the end, what is more beautiful about HAM-Radio then sharing a
hobby, learning from eachothers subdisciplines within hamradio,
working as a team, learning who they are, and also learning who you
yourself are ? This is my eyes the Ham spirit.
44net makes this possible for hams interested in TCP/IP (and udp,
icmp, and so on ofcourse :))
We have it. Lets use it.
But leave everyone free to use it as they see fit. If you want to
route it to the public internet via BGP, go ahead. If you want to
close it off so only other 44net users can use it, thats fine too. If
you like another way of connecting all the subnets together instead of
the ipip & gateway list system, build it, propose it, show it,
experiment, work together with other people. That is the ham-spirit.
Foe example, the 44.144 subnet is internally connected by wifi links
and internal openvpn links, and we then announce the entire subnet to
the public internet and to the amprnet ipip tunnel network via a
gateway. Nobody is saying you need to use ipip inside your own segment
if you don't like it. Thats the beauty about ham radio and 44net, you
can experiment, and if it breaks, it doesn't matter, when you get it
fixed again, you will have learned a few new things and understand why
it broke in the first place.
There is no point in "returning" this legacy space to ARIN. They are
not handing out IPv4 space anymore as it is officially depleted. The
only way to get IPv4 space is to buy it from other people who have
excess IPv4 space. I hope we will never sell 44net ip space, since we
will never be able to get something like this back.
This is the same as saying we should return all the allocated HAM
Radio frequencies so they can be used for commercial purposes.
the allocated 44 subnet is just as big a part of ham radio as the
allocated frequencies are for our use and experiments.
Just my thoughts.
- Robbie
ON4SAX
3 Apr
3 Apr
2:56 a.m.
New subject: routable or private?
On 03.04.2014 01:09, Robbie De Lise wrote:
I hope we will never sell 44net ip space, since we
will never be able to get something like this back.
Furthermore it would break our authentication based on net44 source
addresses. We offer radio services only for source IP addresses out of
44/8 (e.g. access to the Packet Radio network or shortwave SDR
transceivers).
Since we don't have an __easy__ solution for authentication of radio
amateurs over the internet, building an Intranet for radio amateurs
within 44/8 seems to be a good choice...
73,
Jann
--
Jann Traschewski, Faber-Castell-Str. 9, D-90522 Oberasbach, Germany
Tel.: +49-911-696971, Mobile: +49-170-1045937, E-Mail: jann(a)gmx.de
Ham: DG8NGN / DB0VOX, http://www.qsl.net/dg8ngn
9:46 a.m.
New subject: routable or private?
On 03.04.14. 08:56, Jann Traschewski wrote:
Since we don't have an __easy__ solution for
authentication of radio
amateurs over the internet, building an Intranet for radio amateurs
within 44/8 seems to be a good choice...
Idea of using PPTP and LOTW certificates is not at all bad. I do not
know how it is done but I liked it.
Pedja YT9TP
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is
active.
http://www.avast.com
11:54 a.m.
New subject: routable or private?
I think people also need to realize that there is much more than IP to work
with. Sometimes we get so locked in on one piece that we forget the rest
of the network stack.
I've been thinking about this over the past few days and I think maybe
that's where D-Star possibly got it right by just exposing Ethernet to a
radio interface. Because then you can segregate traffic by VLAN and use
Bridging to build your networks. VPN's are quite capable of Ethernet
bridging which allows for all sorts of traffic - including routing
protocols. VLAN's would also allow for segregation of traffic by content
type so that if you didn't want global internet traffic on your network
leg, you simply don't subscribe to that VLAN within the internal 44net.
Bridged VPN's are built with UDP connections but most home routers
understand how to handle this type of packet making it easy to expand the
VLAN's. Even if you were behind a firewall or double-nat, you could use
TCP and routers on both ends to route traffic between dissimilar networks.
IP ingress/egress from the public internet would then be up to entry/exit
nodes who may or may not advertise a default route that reaches the
internet. Thus, those particular gateways would have to filter/restrict as
they see fit. They could also allow ingress/egress based on VLAN so let's
say you have a WX/Weatherspotting VLAN that you want to have access to
Meteo/NOAA information but nothing else, you could do that and not affect
anyone else. If you don't like the traffic or want to do it your own way,
you can simply change/remove the VLAN tag or just override with a static
route or use iptables/firewalls.
But ultimately, people should treat 44net the same as any other shared
network. Like what is told to people on another private network I'm part
of when signing up, "Thar be DRAGONS!" and the network should be treated as
such.
Ok... go ahead and poke at this one... :)
2:03 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
Since we don't have an __easy__ solution for
authentication of radio
amateurs over the internet, building an Intranet for radio amateurs
within 44/8 seems to be a good choice...
Jann
That is, in my opinion, the one real special use case for this system.
The networking and the tools we use are not that unique and could
be done with other technologies in other ways. Only here can we
build a world wide Radio Social Technical community. (RST - cute
eh?)
I'm looking forward to getting back on a 44 net hosted CONVERs system
as a first step. Facebook (equiv) will have to come later.
73
Bill, WA7NWP
PS. I'm also looking forward to 44 net hosted email discussions like
this one... It's surprising there are so few ampr.org email
addresses in the threads and archives.
2:09 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
Thus one of the better reasons to use a vpn/tunneling protocol between
islands that incorporates authentication and do peering on an individual
basis. It forces you to authenticate that you are who you say and by the 2
responsible parties one on each side of the link agreeing to peer on an
individual basis and exchanging keys to authenticate the link those parties
on each end thus expressly agree to carry each others traffic on a
reciprical basis. If you don't like the network policies or of traffic
from another network island no one is forcing you to peer with them or
accept their traffic.
Eric
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Jann Traschewski <jann(a)gmx.de> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 03.04.2014 01:09, Robbie De Lise wrote:
I hope we will never sell 44net ip space, since
we
will never be able to get something like this back.
Furthermore it would break our authentication based on net44 source
addresses. We offer radio services only for source IP addresses out of
44/8 (e.g. access to the Packet Radio network or shortwave SDR
transceivers).
Since we don't have an __easy__ solution for authentication of radio
amateurs over the internet, building an Intranet for radio amateurs
within 44/8 seems to be a good choice...
73,
Jann
--
Jann Traschewski, Faber-Castell-Str. 9, D-90522 Oberasbach, Germany
Tel.: +49-911-696971, Mobile: +49-170-1045937, E-Mail: jann(a)gmx.de
Ham: DG8NGN / DB0VOX, http://www.qsl.net/dg8ngn
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
2:11 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
On 2014-04-02 18:09, Robbie De Lise wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
> But we still have this legacy space.
>
> I think people should look at this space as a network first and
> medium/content/errata second. What's the point of interconnection to
> the
> larger world if you don't use it?
Agreed.
HAM-Radio nowadays is so much more then just "Radio".
<snip>
Very well stated.
Most of my dayjob is still about big corporate lan networks, connected
by vpn tunnels and being natted to a few public ips.
Yep. Same here. Except with high capacity wifi links.
But I want to experiment with more. I want to
experiment with the
internet with public IPs, see what happens, I want to experiment with
BGP, transit and peering.
Yes. Exactly. And that's almost impossible to do these days, given that
you need to justify a /24 (and I think the minimum now is a /22 , but a
/24 is the minimum the global routing table will see).
And I have found a group of HAMs who share my passion
and we have
build a big wireless network as our playground, based on commercial
wifi equipment.
Excellent. Is this in the US? FNF would love to work with you guys!
And I learn from him. On the other hand I am
fluent in debugging computernetworks. And they learn
from me. And
everyone who is working on our network has his own passions in the ham
radio community that they can apply to other parts of ham radio and
learn from eachother.
Yes. Exactly. It's the community that is key. Ask for all the knowledge
and give all the knowledge you have. It's how the state of the art is
pushed forward.
And in the end, what is more beautiful about HAM-Radio
then sharing a
hobby, learning from eachothers subdisciplines within hamradio,
working as a team, learning who they are, and also learning who you
yourself are ? This is my eyes the Ham spirit.
Yes. Exactly.
44net makes this possible for hams interested in
TCP/IP (and udp,
icmp, and so on ofcourse :))
We have it. Lets use it.
But leave everyone free to use it as they see fit. If you want to
route it to the public internet via BGP, go ahead. If you want to
close it off so only other 44net users can use it, thats fine too. If
you like another way of connecting all the subnets together instead of
the ipip & gateway list system, build it, propose it, show it,
experiment, work together with other people. That is the ham-spirit.
Is that ipip/gateway system documented somewhere? I'm just getting up to
speed on the community and resources here. Is there a wiki or something
I should review so I don't ask too many stupid n00b questions? :)
I personally would recommend openvpn to connect folks up. Or tinc/n2n
(which seem to have some lower overhead). Or actual links (long range
wifi on the cheap/lower bandwidth/expeditious side, ride a dark fiber
circuit in region on the high bandwdith/slow setup/expensive side. )
Does the space have to be used only over HAM frequencies/gear? This
space is primarily for experimentation/research/learning? Several
research fibernets exist. I'd be happy to make some connections, they
would love this.
Thanks all, and apologies for too many questions from a n00b to the
community!
2 Apr
2 Apr
9:57 p.m.
New subject: routable or private?
Steve,
As others have said, you can be accessible from the Internet from
44-net address space if you want to be.
If you want to be assigned an allocation that you can advertise via
BGP and have an ISP willing to work with you, talk with your regional
coordinator and Brian to get an allocation.
Others have different opinions and wish to manage access to their
allocations differently. You may disagree with them, but please be
respectful of their opinions.
At this point you seem to be the only one stirring up "some irrational
waste-of-time argument" and complaining about the state of things
without either proposing alternative solutions or volunteering to help
make things better.
Therefore, I will be no longer engaging you on this or other issues.
-Neil
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Steve Wright <stevewrightnz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> (Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
> _______________________________________________
>> If the answer to either of the above is "yes", then there is the
potential
>> for traffic which violates radio licensing laws to be carried by radio.
> And
>> after all, I thought RADIO was what 44-net was supposed to be about?
>
> No, 44net is a PUBLIC IP address range. There are plenty of PRIVATE IP
> ranges that we can freely and arbitrarily use without care or regard
> whatsoever, and the 10/8 network is large enough for hams to build a
> substantial world-wide network without further ado.
>
> Why my main concern is with all this 44net stuff, and what we're seeing a
> lot of, is peoples' scaremongering and huge propensity to self-regulate and
> self-police to the absurd, resulting in the 44net never being any more than
> another reason to have an argument on some forum and then sit back on our
> arse and do nothing whatsoever. If this is actually going to be the case
> then my recommendation would be to find some facebook group or other forum
> to put ones' efforts into, and see if you might stir up some irrational
> waste-of-time argument there, because doing it in a 44net forum is likely
> to, at the very least, cause quite a few people to just give up, and at the
> very worst, have someone very concisely and perhaps not so politely explain
> the problem to you.
>
> Steve
>
3886
days inactive
3887
days old
16 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Bill Vodall -
charles＠thefnf.org -
Don Fanning -
Eric Fort -
Jann Traschewski -
jj -
Michael E Fox - N6MEF -
Neil Johnson -
Paula -
Robbie De Lise -
Steve Wright -
Tim Pozar -
William Lewis -
YT9TP - Pedja