Hi all,
We are currently announcing the Corsican Internet subnet (44.190.11.0/24) via a Vultr VPS ($5/mo), which is one of the cheapest and easiest way I know. We have an iBGP (internal) session with them, and they announce our addresses from their public AS.
We are developing the network on our island. We'd like to have redundant BGP announcement from two different locations and/or from two different providers. We have several BGP capable providers.
Questions : - Does that mean we need to have our own AS number ? - If so, what's the best way to obtain such an AS number ? Does ARDC provide public AS numbers ? Or do we have to get one from regular Internet LIR ? - If so, does that mean I won't be able to use Vultr anymore (because Vultr announces our IPs from their AS, and AFAIK, they do not allow to announce from our own AS) ?
Thank you in advance.
73 de TK1BI
On 24 Apr 2022, at 09:36, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Hi all,
We are currently announcing the Corsican Internet subnet (44.190.11.0/24) via a Vultr VPS ($5/mo), which is one of the cheapest and easiest way I know. We have an iBGP (internal) session with them, and they announce our addresses from their public AS.
We are developing the network on our island. We'd like to have redundant BGP announcement from two different locations and/or from two different providers. We have several BGP capable providers.
Questions :
- Does that mean we need to have our own AS number ?
Short answer: yes.
- If so, what's the best way to obtain such an AS number ? Does ARDC provide public AS numbers ? Or do we have to get one from regular Internet LIR ?
ARDC do not provide ASNs, you will need to obtain one from a LIR.
- If so, does that mean I won't be able to use Vultr anymore (because Vultr announces our IPs from their AS, and AFAIK, they do not allow to announce from our own AS) ?
IIRC Vultr will allow you to announce to them from your own ASN if you have one, otherwise they issue you with a private ASN, however the announcement has to come from one of their VMs, so how you would then route the prefix to another provider for announcement could get interesting.
It’s possible with tunnels I guess, but the traditional way would be to have your own BGP edge router in a datacenter and hook up feeds from two transit providers. Doing it this way also gives you the option of peering with multiple other networks, if you’re in a carrier neutral datacenter.
73, Chris - G1FEF
Thank you in advance.
73 de TK1BI
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Hi Chris,
Le 24/04/2022 à 10:59, Chris Smith a écrit :
IIRC Vultr will allow you to announce to them from your own ASN if you have one
Thank you for your answer. I was not aware about that. Then, we need to : - Obtain an ASN from a LIR - Migrate our Vultr announcement to that private ASN - Arrange redundant announcement of that ASN from another provider
so how you would then route the prefix to another provider for announcement could get interesting.
It’s possible with tunnels I guess, but the traditional way would be to have your own BGP edge router in a datacenter and hook up feeds from two transit providers. Doing it this way also gives you the option of peering with multiple other networks, if you’re in a carrier neutral datacenter.
All our servers are hosted in a local data center (on our island of Corsica), but it has very limited transit capabilities, and no ISP providing BGP directly (ie, at affordable cost for a radio-club). Currently, we announce via a Vultr VPS in Paris, and we tunnel to Corsica. The second announcement is not defined yet. I still have to investigate all the available options, and choose two of them. Moreover, we plan to deploy a second 44Net data-center on the island. Then, we would have two DCs, connected to each other via iBGP, and each one having its own eBGP announcement. More to follow...
73 de TK1BI
I can announce for you as well, on a good blend of transit via as 55016 out of Alberta Canada. Can also provide VPS. ________________________________ From: Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 3:21:04 AM To: AMPRNet working group 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: BGP announcement from two different locations ?
Hi Chris,
Le 24/04/2022 à 10:59, Chris Smith a écrit :
IIRC Vultr will allow you to announce to them from your own ASN if you have one
Thank you for your answer. I was not aware about that. Then, we need to : - Obtain an ASN from a LIR - Migrate our Vultr announcement to that private ASN - Arrange redundant announcement of that ASN from another provider
so how you would then route the prefix to another provider for announcement could get interesting.
It’s possible with tunnels I guess, but the traditional way would be to have your own BGP edge router in a datacenter and hook up feeds from two transit providers. Doing it this way also gives you the option of peering with multiple other networks, if you’re in a carrier neutral datacenter.
All our servers are hosted in a local data center (on our island of Corsica), but it has very limited transit capabilities, and no ISP providing BGP directly (ie, at affordable cost for a radio-club). Currently, we announce via a Vultr VPS in Paris, and we tunnel to Corsica. The second announcement is not defined yet. I still have to investigate all the available options, and choose two of them. Moreover, we plan to deploy a second 44Net data-center on the island. Then, we would have two DCs, connected to each other via iBGP, and each one having its own eBGP announcement. More to follow...
73 de TK1BI
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Le 24/04/2022 à 15:04, Colin Bodor a écrit :
I can announce for you as well, on a good blend of transit via as 55016 out of Alberta Canada. Can also provide VPS.
Thank you very much. Echolink traffic from here often goes through VK gateways (!!!) , but I'd like to avoid BGP routing through VE, HI :-) I already have several BGP options in France. And I'll see if I can find something in Italy for optimal redundancy (we'll have a new connection to a submarine cable landing in Genova / pity Vultr does not have any data center in Genova/Milano)
73 de TK1BI
Good Morning,
I would keep a watch on the Vultr news feed https://www.vultr.com/news/. This year they have added a few new locations:
- Jan 4, 2022 - Warsaw, Poland - Jan 19, 2022 - Madrid, Spain - Feb 14, 2022 - Melbourne, Australia - Mar 23, 2022 - Honolulu, Hawaii - Apr 12, 2022 - Mumbai, India
I do not *know* they are going to continue to expand, however, at this rate since January 1st, I would not be surprised.
All the best & Stay well!
_________________________
Ronnie Montgomery (WØrdm)
Missouri AMPRnet Coordinator https://mo.ampr.org
𝜋.666.4.999 <//3146664999> | rdm@rdm.io
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 4:30 AM Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Le 24/04/2022 à 15:04, Colin Bodor a écrit :
I can announce for you as well, on a good blend of transit via as 55016 out of Alberta Canada. Can also provide VPS.
Thank you very much. Echolink traffic from here often goes through VK gateways (!!!) , but I'd like to avoid BGP routing through VE, HI :-) I already have several BGP options in France. And I'll see if I can find something in Italy for optimal redundancy (we'll have a new connection to a submarine cable landing in Genova / pity Vultr does not have any data center in Genova/Milano)
73 de TK1BI _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
I don’t think a public AS is absolutely required if you don’t want to get one. If you can find another company that does it similarly to Vultr, then you can begin even today. It’s just that people will see this IP prefix announced both from Vultr as well as the new provider. And they will take the closest route anyways. You will just have to create two route objects instead of one though.
However, getting an AS + IPv6 is a great to expand and add IPv6 to your network, and allows for more options in the future.
If Switzerland is acceptable (it’s close to Milano, with very good connectivity), then maybe I can help.. There are also VM providers here that offer a similar service to Vultr for almost the same cost (and do BGP) and you can also go to them directly.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 4:30 AM Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Le 24/04/2022 à 15:04, Colin Bodor a écrit :
I can announce for you as well, on a good blend of transit via as 55016 out of Alberta Canada. Can also provide VPS.
Thank you very much. Echolink traffic from here often goes through VK gateways (!!!) , but I'd like to avoid BGP routing through VE, HI :-) I already have several BGP options in France. And I'll see if I can find something in Italy for optimal redundancy (we'll have a new connection to a submarine cable landing in Genova / pity Vultr does not have any data center in Genova/Milano)
73 de TK1BI _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Antonios is correct. Getting your own ASN is not required if you work through a hosting company. Perhaps this is an opportunity for us to update the Wiki with the providers we are aware of? I'd be happy to do this.
I know of:
- Vultr https://www.vultr.com/. No BGP setup fees or added fees. Available to the lowest VM plan. - SpartanHost https://spartanhost.org/. - Inferno Communications https://infernocomms.com/. London-based company, LIR, and extremely helpful.
There is a BGP-community updated list, some of the providers may be too complex for a simple network learning option on the cheap. But feel free to take a look at https://bgp.services/
Hope this helps &
Stay well!
_________________________
Ronnie Montgomery (WØrdm)
Missouri AMPRnet Coordinator https://mo.ampr.org
𝜋.666.4.999 <//3146664999> | rdm@rdm.io
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:52 AM Antonios Chariton (daknob) via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
I don’t think a public AS is absolutely required if you don’t want to get one. If you can find another company that does it similarly to Vultr, then you can begin even today. It’s just that people will see this IP prefix announced both from Vultr as well as the new provider. And they will take the closest route anyways. You will just have to create two route objects instead of one though.
However, getting an AS + IPv6 is a great to expand and add IPv6 to your network, and allows for more options in the future.
If Switzerland is acceptable (it’s close to Milano, with very good connectivity), then maybe I can help.. There are also VM providers here that offer a similar service to Vultr for almost the same cost (and do BGP) and you can also go to them directly.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 4:30 AM Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Le 24/04/2022 à 15:04, Colin Bodor a écrit :
I can announce for you as well, on a good blend of transit via as 55016 out of Alberta Canada. Can also provide VPS.
Thank you very much. Echolink traffic from here often goes through VK gateways (!!!) , but I'd like to avoid BGP routing through VE, HI :-) I already have several BGP options in France. And I'll see if I can find something in Italy for optimal redundancy (we'll have a new connection to a submarine cable landing in Genova / pity Vultr does not have any data center in Genova/Milano)
73 de TK1BI _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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In short it is technically possible, but not recommended as a stable/production way of doing things.
TL;DR Strictly speaking you could do this without your own ASN but you would have to setup some internal routing between the two providers and your network to ensure that your network is reachable to and from both providers, for example if you sent out a packet of data via provider A but the destination return packet came via provider B. You may also run into issues with any stateful services if packets take different paths. Some carriers may also drop one of the routes, depending on how the route objects are setup.
Best practice says get your own ASN and do it “properly”.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 26 Apr 2022, at 11:18, R.D. Montgomery via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Antonios is correct. Getting your own ASN is not required if you work through a hosting company. Perhaps this is an opportunity for us to update the Wiki with the providers we are aware of? I'd be happy to do this.
I know of: Vultr https://www.vultr.com/. No BGP setup fees or added fees. Available to the lowest VM plan. SpartanHost https://spartanhost.org/. Inferno Communications https://infernocomms.com/. London-based company, LIR, and extremely helpful. There is a BGP-community updated list, some of the providers may be too complex for a simple network learning option on the cheap. But feel free to take a look at https://bgp.services/ https://bgp.services/
Hope this helps & Stay well! _________________________ Ronnie Montgomery (WØrdm) Missouri AMPRnet Coordinator https://mo.ampr.org/ 𝜋.666.4.999 tel://3146664999 | rdm@rdm.io mailto:rdm@rdm.io https://mo.ampr.org https://mo.ampr.org/
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 4:52 AM Antonios Chariton (daknob) via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: I don’t think a public AS is absolutely required if you don’t want to get one. If you can find another company that does it similarly to Vultr, then you can begin even today. It’s just that people will see this IP prefix announced both from Vultr as well as the new provider. And they will take the closest route anyways. You will just have to create two route objects instead of one though.
However, getting an AS + IPv6 is a great to expand and add IPv6 to your network, and allows for more options in the future.
If Switzerland is acceptable (it’s close to Milano, with very good connectivity), then maybe I can help.. There are also VM providers here that offer a similar service to Vultr for almost the same cost (and do BGP) and you can also go to them directly.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 4:30 AM Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Le 24/04/2022 à 15:04, Colin Bodor a écrit :
I can announce for you as well, on a good blend of transit via as 55016 out of Alberta Canada. Can also provide VPS.
Thank you very much. Echolink traffic from here often goes through VK gateways (!!!) , but I'd like to avoid BGP routing through VE, HI :-) I already have several BGP options in France. And I'll see if I can find something in Italy for optimal redundancy (we'll have a new connection to a submarine cable landing in Genova / pity Vultr does not have any data center in Genova/Milano)
73 de TK1BI _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Hi Toussaint,
Le dim. 24 avr. 2022 à 11:21, Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org a écrit :
Thank you for your answer. I was not aware about that. Then, we need to :
- Obtain an ASN from a LIR
The list of French LIRs is here https://www.ripe.net/membership/indices/FR.html
While my employer is a LIR, it is a commercial entity and not really hobbyist friendly, so I'd recommend you talking to small french non-profits like grifon, tetaneutral or milkywan...
- Migrate our Vultr announcement to that private ASN
I guess you meant "own" instead of private? Private would mean 64512 to 65534 and 4200000000 to 4294967294 (RFC6996).
- Arrange redundant announcement of that ASN from another provider
Grifon & tetaneutral offers vm on which you can set up a bgp session to them and tunnel back to Corsica (ibgp over tunnel over internet), milkywan also offers tunnels, directly to your infrastructure (ebgp over tunnel).
hth, 73 de f4inu
Hi Toussaint,
This will indeed require your own ASN and routing to be done from your own ASN. An ASN can be had from RIPE but you’ll need to find a sponsor. There are several RIPE LIRs that can sponsor an ASN. There is Servperso, Bahnflow, iFog GmbH. They can provide the RIPE sponsorship for your own ASN (together with an IPv6 /44 range of your own if you want)
We are in the process of doing the same in Belgium and migrating away from the old Wireless Belgie network and announcement. If you want I can provide more information off list as I am sure others can too.
73
Ruben ON3RVH
From: Toussaint OTTAVI via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 10:36 To: AMPRNet working group 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] BGP announcement from two different locations ?
Hi all,
We are currently announcing the Corsican Internet subnet (44.190.11.0/24) via a Vultr VPS ($5/mo), which is one of the cheapest and easiest way I know. We have an iBGP (internal) session with them, and they announce our addresses from their public AS.
We are developing the network on our island. We'd like to have redundant BGP announcement from two different locations and/or from two different providers. We have several BGP capable providers.
Questions : - Does that mean we need to have our own AS number ? - If so, what's the best way to obtain such an AS number ? Does ARDC provide public AS numbers ? Or do we have to get one from regular Internet LIR ? - If so, does that mean I won't be able to use Vultr anymore (because Vultr announces our IPs from their AS, and AFAIK, they do not allow to announce from our own AS) ?
Thank you in advance.
73 de TK1BI
Le 24/04/2022 à 11:09, Ruben ON3RVH a écrit :
We are in the process of doing the same in Belgium and migrating away from the old Wireless Belgie network and announcement.
If you want I can provide more information off list as I am sure others can too.
Hi Ruben, thank you for your answer.
I have several options with several business ISPs I'm in relation for my job. I must investigate further with them, and see what I can obtain for free (or limited cost) for HAM usage. More to follow...
73 de TK1BI
-
Antonios Chariton (daknob) -
Chris - G1FEF -
Chris Smith
-
Colin Bodor -
Pierre Emeriaud -
R.D. Montgomery -
Ruben ON3RVH -
Toussaint OTTAVI