https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
I am a heretic, but I would support leasing a chunk to pay for infrastructure to run 44net and make it more accessible and useable for the average Ham. Right now most of the space is used for what is basically non-routable or is not used at all. It would not take much for it to be yanked out from under us as thing stand.
Asbestos suit now on 73 Lin N4YCI On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:38 PM Neil Johnson neil.johnson@erudicon.com wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
On what legal basis would it "be yanked out from under us"?
It's not public spectrum like our ham bands are, it's private property. - Brian
On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 08:46:14PM -0600, Lin Holcomb wrote:
I am a heretic, but I would support leasing a chunk to pay for infrastructure to run 44net and make it more accessible and useable for the average Ham. Right now most of the space is used for what is basically non-routable or is not used at all. It would not take much for it to be yanked out from under us as thing stand.
Asbestos suit now on 73 Lin N4YCI
Do you have millions to fight a legal battle?
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:50 PM Brian Kantor Brian@bkantor.net wrote:
On what legal basis would it "be yanked out from under us"?
It's not public spectrum like our ham bands are, it's private property. - Brian
On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 08:46:14PM -0600, Lin Holcomb wrote:
I am a heretic, but I would support leasing a chunk to pay for infrastructure to run 44net and make it more accessible and useable for
the
average Ham. Right now most of the space is used for what is basically non-routable or is not used at all. It would not take much for it to be yanked out from under us as thing stand.
Asbestos suit now on 73 Lin N4YCI
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
Uh oh, this is turning into an arguement. I withdraw my comment. - Brian
On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 08:52:02PM -0600, Lin Holcomb wrote:
Do you have millions to fight a legal battle?
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:50 PM Brian Kantor Brian@bkantor.net wrote:
On what legal basis would it "be yanked out from under us"?
It's not public spectrum like our ham bands are, it's private property. - Brian
On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 08:46:14PM -0600, Lin Holcomb wrote:
I am a heretic, but I would support leasing a chunk to pay for infrastructure to run 44net and make it more accessible and useable for
the
average Ham. Right now most of the space is used for what is basically non-routable or is not used at all. It would not take much for it to be yanked out from under us as thing stand.
Asbestos suit now on 73 Lin N4YCI
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
On 11/8/18 9:46 PM, Lin Holcomb wrote:
Right now most of the space is used for what is basically non-routable
That's a valid use of IP space. Many things are not in the global table but have a need of unique IP space. Even ARIN calls this out in 4.3.5, and the other RIR's have a policy of this. Regardless the AMPR allocation predates this and is not subject to this.
It would not take much for it to be yanked out from under us as thing stand.
Care to explain? ARDC owns the space. It's not a grant or license from an RIR, but is legally property as it was allocated by Postel in the 80's.
The only conceivable way I could see this happening would be someone sues ARDC and ARDC would not have money to defend itself. Even this is a bit far fetched, but as 44/8 is worth in excess of 200M USD, it does stick out for an "enterprising" lawyer to target.
At the end of the day a /8 isn't going to buy us even a couple months of IPv4 burn. If we all do IPv6 now, in 10 years 44/8 will be worthless.
On 9/11/2018 10:38 am, Neil Johnson wrote:
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
I'm still waiting for IPv6... It's nearly 2019 - if carriers haven't deployed IPv6 by now, then they probably never plan to.
Only one Australian carrier supports it on their mobile and landline networks, with a smaller scale deployments at niche ISPs. For the overwhelming majority, traditional dynamic IPv4 allocations or CG-NAT is being used.
Until a major site like Facebook release a new feature that's only available on IPv6 and customers hassle their ISPs about it, carriers are going to go with what's cheap and what they know - and that's NAT.
73
Gavin.
Just saying as it is “private” property there is no reason that part of the space could not be leased to pay for multiple access points, VPN, hosting ect. The market is ripe the price has probably peaked and a lease is not a permanent re-assignment. Having users wards off the vultures. If there was a system of VPN outlets it would provide the ability for hams to “host” their applications at their house, tower ect. I would pay for this. I do pay for this now, but it does not have a 44net address. Lin
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:54 PM Gavin Rogers grogers@vk6hgr.echidna.id.au wrote:
On 9/11/2018 10:38 am, Neil Johnson wrote:
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
I'm still waiting for IPv6... It's nearly 2019 - if carriers haven't deployed IPv6 by now, then they probably never plan to.
Only one Australian carrier supports it on their mobile and landline networks, with a smaller scale deployments at niche ISPs. For the overwhelming majority, traditional dynamic IPv4 allocations or CG-NAT is being used.
Until a major site like Facebook release a new feature that's only available on IPv6 and customers hassle their ISPs about it, carriers are going to go with what's cheap and what they know - and that's NAT.
73
Gavin. _________________________________________ 44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:59 PM, Lin Holcomb LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
Just saying as it is “private” property there is no reason that part of the space could not be leased to pay for multiple access points, VPN, hosting ect. The market is ripe the price has probably peaked and a lease is not a permanent re-assignment. Having users wards off the vultures. If there was a system of VPN outlets it would provide the ability for hams to “host” their applications at their house, tower ect. I would pay for this. I do pay for this now, but it does not have a 44net address.
That would not be difficult at all. Announce a /24 via BGP and then you could hand out a bunch of /28 or /29s via any number of VPN technologies.
This is what has already been done in many countries. However one would not want to connect from say France, Netherlands or Belgium, ... to a vpn gateway in the states and have everything routed there. That would give us way too much latency. The other way round would be that Americans would not want to connect to a gateway in Europe and have everything routed over Europe. You would need geographically placed POPs that can serve a region with minimal latency to and from the internet. Like we are doing today.
Ruben - ON3RVH
On 9 Nov 2018, at 04:10, James Sharp james@fivecats.org wrote:
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:59 PM, Lin Holcomb LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
Just saying as it is “private” property there is no reason that part of the space could not be leased to pay for multiple access points, VPN, hosting ect. The market is ripe the price has probably peaked and a lease is not a permanent re-assignment. Having users wards off the vultures. If there was a system of VPN outlets it would provide the ability for hams to “host” their applications at their house, tower ect. I would pay for this. I do pay for this now, but it does not have a 44net address.
That would not be difficult at all. Announce a /24 via BGP and then you could hand out a bunch of /28 or /29s via any number of VPN technologies.
44Net mailing list 44Net@mailman.ampr.org https://mailman.ampr.org/mailman/listinfo/44net
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6, it will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of time. Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best guess is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson neil.johnson@erudicon.com wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space. This has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend patents it talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the use by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this while the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the future. Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6, it will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of time. Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best guess is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson neil.johnson@erudicon.com wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their test network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the time o this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space. This has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend patents it talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the use by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this while the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the future. Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6, it will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of time. Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best guess is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson neil.johnson@erudicon.com wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to lease addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their test network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the time o this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this while the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6, it will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of time. Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
Don't get me wrong though, anything is for sale for the right price if the organization agree's to it.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:49 AM Lin Holcomb LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to lease addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their test network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the time
o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6,
it
will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
The /8 is worth about $300 million according to a local Amazon buyer of networks the value goes down per address for smaller blocks. A /24 is worth about $2000 - $3000.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018, 07:49 Lin Holcomb <LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to lease addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their test network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the time
o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6,
it
will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
Addresses are both valuable and worthless. They have a incalculable value to the AMPR community. 95% or more of the users of this group will never get a chance to actually have a chance to get access to a block of public addresses to play with and learn. Sure selling access to the IP addresses (there would not be a way to lease properly Amazon or Googe would NEVER give them back, and ultimately lawyer up and stop paying the group.) Plus wouldn't that invalidate the charter or this whole thing were it is to be used for non-commercial purposes??? I would say if we open that box it will start the clock to where we loose this whole thing.
I say leave it as is... This is just like RF spectrum. we are granted use of our little slice and would never think of giving that up... Why would we think of doing the same here.
Also. Anyone who wants server space or a place to land thier addresses I have plenty of free space available (physical and virtual) in my Denver Data Center.... Only for AMPR/Hams.... Just message me and we can work something out..
Mike Vespoli KE0HFH
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:48 AM Lin Holcomb LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to lease addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their test network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the time
o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6,
it
will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
How does it work, for example, if someone happens to have a business grade ISP circuit, BGP, and would like to advertise out a portion of the 44/8 to the public internet. What organization (HAM organization) does that go through, can a form be filled out to get a /29 of something out of that /8 for of course the purpose of HAM.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:23 AM Mike Vespoli mvespoli@gmail.com wrote:
Addresses are both valuable and worthless. They have a incalculable value to the AMPR community. 95% or more of the users of this group will never get a chance to actually have a chance to get access to a block of public addresses to play with and learn. Sure selling access to the IP addresses (there would not be a way to lease properly Amazon or Googe would NEVER give them back, and ultimately lawyer up and stop paying the group.) Plus wouldn't that invalidate the charter or this whole thing were it is to be used for non-commercial purposes??? I would say if we open that box it will start the clock to where we loose this whole thing.
I say leave it as is... This is just like RF spectrum. we are granted use of our little slice and would never think of giving that up... Why would we think of doing the same here.
Also. Anyone who wants server space or a place to land thier addresses I have plenty of free space available (physical and virtual) in my Denver Data Center.... Only for AMPR/Hams.... Just message me and we can work something out..
Mike Vespoli KE0HFH
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:48 AM Lin Holcomb <LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to
lease
addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open
market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their
test
network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the
time
o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend
patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further
the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and
IPv6,
it
will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
Most carriers won’t accept a BGP announcement for anything under a /24. If you want to get a amprnet /24 and announce it, there’s forms on the ampr.org portal that Brian has to sign off for the LOA.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 9, 2018, at 8:30 AM, Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com wrote:
How does it work, for example, if someone happens to have a business grade ISP circuit, BGP, and would like to advertise out a portion of the 44/8 to the public internet. What organization (HAM organization) does that go through, can a form be filled out to get a /29 of something out of that /8 for of course the purpose of HAM.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:23 AM Mike Vespoli mvespoli@gmail.com wrote:
Addresses are both valuable and worthless. They have a incalculable value to the AMPR community. 95% or more of the users of this group will never get a chance to actually have a chance to get access to a block of public addresses to play with and learn. Sure selling access to the IP addresses (there would not be a way to lease properly Amazon or Googe would NEVER give them back, and ultimately lawyer up and stop paying the group.) Plus wouldn't that invalidate the charter or this whole thing were it is to be used for non-commercial purposes??? I would say if we open that box it will start the clock to where we loose this whole thing.
I say leave it as is... This is just like RF spectrum. we are granted use of our little slice and would never think of giving that up... Why would we think of doing the same here.
Also. Anyone who wants server space or a place to land thier addresses I have plenty of free space available (physical and virtual) in my Denver Data Center.... Only for AMPR/Hams.... Just message me and we can work something out..
Mike Vespoli KE0HFH
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:48 AM Lin Holcomb <LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to
lease
addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open
market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their
test
network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the
time
o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend
patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further
the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and
IPv6,
it
will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173 > > > Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8. > > It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom
> and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass. > > -Neil, N0SFH > -- > Neil Johnson >
ah, very true regarding the /24. okay, interesting, i was just curious.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:48 AM James Sharp james@fivecats.org wrote:
Most carriers won’t accept a BGP announcement for anything under a /24. If you want to get a amprnet /24 and announce it, there’s forms on the ampr.org portal that Brian has to sign off for the LOA.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 9, 2018, at 8:30 AM, Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com wrote:
How does it work, for example, if someone happens to have a business
grade
ISP circuit, BGP, and would like to advertise out a portion of the 44/8
to
the public internet. What organization (HAM organization) does that go through, can a form be filled out to get a /29 of something out of that
/8
for of course the purpose of HAM.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:23 AM Mike Vespoli mvespoli@gmail.com
wrote:
Addresses are both valuable and worthless. They have a incalculable
value
to the AMPR community. 95% or more of the users of this group will
never
get a chance to actually have a chance to get access to a block of
public
addresses to play with and learn. Sure selling access to the IP
addresses
(there would not be a way to lease properly Amazon or Googe would NEVER give them back, and ultimately lawyer up and stop paying the group.)
Plus
wouldn't that invalidate the charter or this whole thing were it is to
be
used for non-commercial purposes??? I would say if we open that box it will start the clock to where we loose this whole thing.
I say leave it as is... This is just like RF spectrum. we are granted
use
of our little slice and would never think of giving that up... Why
would
we think of doing the same here.
Also. Anyone who wants server space or a place to land thier addresses
I
have plenty of free space available (physical and virtual) in my Denver Data Center.... Only for AMPR/Hams.... Just message me and we can work something out..
Mike Vespoli KE0HFH
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:48 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than
self
imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to
lease
addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for
POP
access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect.
What
is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open
market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com
wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their
test
network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the
time
o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to
point
network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend
patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further
the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
> IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and
IPv6,
it
> will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
> Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
> is 2090....??? > > On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
> wrote: > >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173 >> >> >> Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8. >> >> It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom >> and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass. >> >> -Neil, N0SFH >> -- >> Neil Johnson >>
I should clarify why they are worthless... $300 million to Amazon or Google is nothing... Amazon will loose more than that in shipping this holiday season. They would clearly be the only viable buyers of such a chunk of space. They don't need it, and would only take it so someone else doesn't... not really community (HAM) like... it would be for pure profit.. Besos doesn't need any more money...I pay him enough with my Prime membership and all my purchases..
Mike KE0HFH
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 9:21 AM Mike Vespoli mvespoli@gmail.com wrote:
Addresses are both valuable and worthless. They have a incalculable value to the AMPR community. 95% or more of the users of this group will never get a chance to actually have a chance to get access to a block of public addresses to play with and learn. Sure selling access to the IP addresses (there would not be a way to lease properly Amazon or Googe would NEVER give them back, and ultimately lawyer up and stop paying the group.) Plus wouldn't that invalidate the charter or this whole thing were it is to be used for non-commercial purposes??? I would say if we open that box it will start the clock to where we loose this whole thing.
I say leave it as is... This is just like RF spectrum. we are granted use of our little slice and would never think of giving that up... Why would we think of doing the same here.
Also. Anyone who wants server space or a place to land thier addresses I have plenty of free space available (physical and virtual) in my Denver Data Center.... Only for AMPR/Hams.... Just message me and we can work something out..
Mike Vespoli KE0HFH
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:48 AM Lin Holcomb LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com wrote:
What I am getting at is this is millions of dollars worth of IP real estate. There are no rules defining how it is to be used other than self imposed rules. As the market seems to be at a peek I think it is worth discussion to lease addresses to some major player like Google or Amazon in exchange for POP access, funding of an endowment for future research, hardware, ect. What is the value of lets say 2 million contiguous addresses on the open market?
Lin N4YCI
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:32 AM Mark Phillips g7ltt@g7ltt.com wrote:
"I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space"
This has been happening for quite some time. When I first arrived in America some 20 years ago to work for NASDAQ I discovered that their
test
network was using the 44/8 series of IP's. I flagged this up at the
time o
this list. Luckily for us they are using it as a private point to point network.
Mark G7LTT/NI2O
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM Lin Holcomb <
LHolcomb@clearqualitygroup.com
wrote:
I would see a more likely situation of a theft of parts of the space.
This
has already occurred on a small scale. It takes money to defend
patents
it
talks money to operate 16m addresses.
I was just suggesting lease a few blocks to have income to further the
use
by hams, provide capital to provide low cost pops and have additional access points in the event the deal at UCSD ever goes away. Do this
while
the price is high to form an endowment to run the technology in the
future.
Lin On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:10 AM Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com
wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and
IPv6, it
will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of
time.
Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best
guess
is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson <
neil.johnson@erudicon.com
wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address
space
boom
and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
Yep. For example:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=ipv6-adoption
Tony
On Nov 9, 2018, at 02:09, Tony Ellis tonyellis3.te@gmail.com wrote:
IPv6 is already here. My mobile phone is dual stack, IPv4 and IPv6, it will continue to grow and like everything, it is just a matter of time. Some of my ISP's are dual stacked, etc. Will IPv4 go away, my best guess is 2090....???
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:40 PM Neil Johnson neil.johnson@erudicon.com wrote:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173
Note: I'm NOT advocating anything like that for 44.0.0.0/8.
It's just going to be fun to watch the market for IPv4 address space boom and then bust when IPv6 adoption finally reaches critical mass.
-Neil, N0SFH
Neil Johnson
-
Brian Kantor -
Bryan Fields -
Gavin Rogers -
James Sharp -
John D. Hays -
Lavanauts -
Lin Holcomb -
Mark Phillips -
Mike Vespoli -
Neil Johnson -
Ruben ON3RVH -
Tony Ellis