22 Apr
2022
22 Apr
'22
9:45 p.m.
Well, there are some interesting comments. One being the cost of
service. If you look at the discourse link, right away it says it is
$100 per month, so it is not free. And if they were to decide this group
was a business then it is $300 per month. Still not free. Trying to find
pricing for groups.io shows starting at $20 per month for up to 500
members. I don't have any idea how many members there may be to this group.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based". Anything
you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or another.
A few years ago when most of the groups were jumping from Yahoo some of
the groups talked about google. That is probably one of the worst places
to go to. I, along with several others in several groups said if they
went to google we would drop out. That hasn't changed for me. Trust
google for much of anything? Good luck with that.
A bit of my experience with groups.io. For those who like the digest, it
works, for those who like to get email, it works, for those who just
want to look at the messages in the group, it works. It works well for
archive and searching. A couple of other good features, it allows an
email receiver to limit attachment size (for those inconsiderate people
who think they have to send an image that is 10 megs and larger) so
instead it sends a link for the attachment. Also, if a user is no longer
interested in getting email about a subject, it allows that user to mute
the subject, which means they don't get any more emails about it. Since
I don't manage any groups, I'm sure there are several management tools
available to manage the group.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 06:53:23 PM
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
--
Untitled Document
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
http://sykly.smtpclick.com/tracking/qaR9ZGLlBQp5ZmxjZQVjZQR4ZGp2ZPM5qzS4qaR…
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
> Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but
not the
> user database. I'm unable to authenticate
and, even if I try to
perform
> password recovery, I get the following message:
>
> "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
>
> Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google
Groups
> or Groups.io instead of having someone host a
Mailman server?
>
> Jeff Hochberg
> W4JEW
> Atlanta, GA
> jeff(a)w4jew.com
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
> <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
>
> I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
> The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
> The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
>
> Mike / AA8IA
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold > > > wrote:
>
> Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
> login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
> user when I try to reset my password.
>
> 73 de KM8V
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
> <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
>
> Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard
> to email reputation.
>
> SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
> record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
> list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended
> up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
>
> 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org SPF record
>
> and it appears themailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with
anARDC.NET
DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org DKIM key
>
> Mike / AA8IA
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
> <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
>
> The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an
> unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all
> the services associated with the mailing list continued
> to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
> systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden
> reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
> the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
> mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often
> goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for
> several days.
>
> Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only
> set to a few days and by the time the issue was
> investigated all the available backups were of the
> corrupted files.
>
> As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the
> older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest
> Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
> mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman
> 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated
> the 44net list there.
>
> I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
> server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
> data there thankfully.
>
> The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found
> here:
>
>
http://sykly.smtpclick.com/tracking/qaR9ZGLlBQp5ZmxjZQVjZQR4ZGp2ZPM5qzS4qaR…
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it
has provided excellent service to the community. John is
going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the
44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
22 Apr
22 Apr
10:07 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
I'm also a user and manager of several groups.io lists. While I appreciate the service
and find it well thought-out and designed, I've noticed a steady stream of features
finding themselves behind their paywall, and, in general, it seems some of these
"freemium" services don't have sufficient non-profit / small business
membership tiers -- the pay tiers are simply not affordable for groups with small-to-zero
budgets.
Some of the objections to cloud-hosted solutions in this thread may be related to these
issues.
--
73,
Chris KE2A
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association via 44net
wrote:
Well, there are some interesting comments. One being
the cost of service. If you look at the discourse link, right away it says it is $100 per
month, so it is not free. And if they were to decide this group was a business then it is
$300 per month. Still not free. Trying to find pricing for groups.io shows starting at $20
per month for up to 500 members. I don't have any idea how many members there may be
to this group.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based". Anything
you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or another.
A few years ago when most of the groups were jumping from Yahoo some of the groups talked
about google. That is probably one of the worst places to go to. I, along with several
others in several groups said if they went to google we would drop out. That hasn't
changed for me. Trust google for much of anything? Good luck with that.
A bit of my experience with groups.io. For those who like the digest, it works, for those
who like to get email, it works, for those who just want to look at the messages in the
group, it works. It works well for archive and searching. A couple of other good features,
it allows an email receiver to limit attachment size (for those inconsiderate people who
think they have to send an image that is 10 megs and larger) so instead it sends a link
for the attachment. Also, if a user is no longer interested in getting email about a
subject, it allows that user to mute the subject, which means they don't get any more
emails about it. Since I don't manage any groups, I'm sure there are several
management tools available to manage the group.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 06:53:23 PM
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/
<http://sykly.smtpclick.com/tracking/qaR9ZGLlBQp5ZmxjZQVjZQR4ZGp2ZPM5qzS4qaR9ZQbjDD>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
--
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold > > > wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with anARDC.NET DKIM key
rather than amailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all
the services associated with the mailing list continued
to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden
reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often
goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only
set to a few days and by the time the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman
3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<http://sykly.smtpclick.com/tracking/qaR9ZGLlBQp5ZmxjZQVjZQR4ZGp2ZPM5qzS4qaR9ZQbkDt>
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it
has provided excellent service to the community. John is
going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the
44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
10:16 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
Groups.io has discounted rates for non-profits like ARDC even for large
memberships it is not that expensive.
11:05 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
On 22 Apr 2022, at 15:45, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater
Association via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Well, there are some interesting comments. One being the cost of service. If you look at
the discourse link, right away it says it is $100 per month, so it is not free.
That's for the hosted version. The software itself is open source and you can
host it yourself at no cost.
And if they were to decide this group was a business
then it is $300 per month. Still not free. Trying to find pricing for groups.io
<http://groups.io/> shows starting at $20 per month for up to 500 members. I
don't have any idea how many members there may be to this group.
Just under 1,000 members. groups.io <http://groups.io/> do an enterprise
edition for $200/month but they discount this by 50% to non-profits.
A few have said they don't want anything that is
"cloud based". Anything you get from the internet is "cloud based" one
way or another.
Indeed, “cloud based” just means it’s on a server in a datacenter when you boil it
down. “Cloud” is more of a marketing term than a technical term.
A few years ago when most of the groups were jumping
from Yahoo some of the groups talked about google. That is probably one of the worst
places to go to. I, along with several others in several groups said if they went to
google we would drop out. That hasn't changed for me. Trust google for much of
anything? Good luck with that.
+1 Google is definitely NOT the way to go IMO.
A bit of my experience with groups.io
<http://groups.io/>. For those who like the digest, it works, for those who like to
get email, it works, for those who just want to look at the messages in the group, it
works. It works well for archive and searching. A couple of other good features, it allows
an email receiver to limit attachment size (for those inconsiderate people who think they
have to send an image that is 10 megs and larger) so instead it sends a link for the
attachment. Also, if a user is no longer interested in getting email about a subject, it
allows that user to mute the subject, which means they don't get any more emails about
it. Since I don't manage any groups, I'm sure there are several management tools
available to manage the group.
I’ve been using groups.io <http://groups.io/> practically since it began, I
manage several groups and have contributed to their beta programme. I have made several
suggestions for improvements, most of which they have implemented. They are very open to
suggestions for improvements and seem keen to keep their customer base happy. It’s not
open source, which is a shame, but it is by far the best option, hands down, IMHO.
Now if someone fancies writing an open source clone of groups.io <http://groups.io/>
they would be on to a winner!
if we are going to move from a plain text mailing list, I would vote groups.io
<http://groups.io/> - apart from the “not open source” and the price tag (which ARDC
can easily afford) it has no other negatives that I can think of.
Chris - G1FEF
11:15 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
My 2-pence…
I have used groups.io for a long time and see no reason why we shouldn’t
continue using it.
Sometimes, paying for something offers guarantees and SLAs you just won’t
get out of ‘doing it yourself’ and it makes sense to bite the bullet and
leave someone else manage the infrastructure.
The cloud is just someone else’s server… that’s it… a marketing term to
give something lesser technical people could understand when explaining the
internet.
I didn’t think this group would have the same preconceptions of the
internet other groups do 😂 but we are radio amateurs first and foremost.
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 17:05, Chris Smith via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
wrote:
On 22 Apr 2022, at 15:45, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association via
44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Well, there are some interesting comments. One being the cost of service.
If you look at the discourse link, right away it says it is $100 per month,
so it is not free.
That's for the hosted version. The software itself is open source and you
can host it yourself at no cost.
And if they were to decide this group was a business then it is $300 per
month. Still not free. Trying to find pricing for groups.io shows
starting at $20 per month for up to 500 members. I don't have any idea how
many members there may be to this group.
Just under 1,000 members. groups.io do an enterprise edition for
$200/month but they discount this by 50% to non-profits.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based". Anything
you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or another.
Indeed, “cloud based” just means it’s on a server in a datacenter when you
boil it down. “Cloud” is more of a marketing term than a technical term.
A few years ago when most of the groups were jumping from Yahoo some of
the groups talked about google. That is probably one of the worst places to
go to. I, along with several others in several groups said if they went to
google we would drop out. That hasn't changed for me. Trust google for much
of anything? Good luck with that.
+1 Google is definitely NOT the way to go IMO.
A bit of my experience with groups.io. For those who like the digest, it
works, for those who like to get email, it works, for those who just want
to look at the messages in the group, it works. It works well for archive
and searching. A couple of other good features, it allows an email receiver
to limit attachment size (for those inconsiderate people who think they
have to send an image that is 10 megs and larger) so instead it sends a
link for the attachment. Also, if a user is no longer interested in getting
email about a subject, it allows that user to mute the subject, which means
they don't get any more emails about it. Since I don't manage any groups,
I'm sure there are several management tools available to manage the group.
I’ve been using groups.io practically since it began, I manage several
groups and have contributed to their beta programme. I have made several
suggestions for improvements, most of which they have implemented. They are
very open to suggestions for improvements and seem keen to keep their
customer base happy. It’s not open source, which is a shame, but it is by
far the best option, hands down, IMHO.
Now if someone fancies writing an open source clone of groups.io they
would be on to a winner!
if we are going to move from a plain text mailing list, I would vote
groups.io - apart from the “not open source” and the price tag (which
ARDC can easily afford) it has no other negatives that I can think of.
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
11:44 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
Y'all, thank you so much for this discussion. It's really helpful to
read your thoughts. It seems that the group is heavily weighted towards
using Groups.io. I also see the comments re: sticking with Mailman,
which is is totally an option.
As Chris has mentioned, the hesitation to using them boils down to it
being a hosted (vs. self-hosted) service. We're going to read the terms
of service and see if there's anything in there we object to. Here they
are in case others are interested:
https://groups.io/static/tos
We definitely wish to use some kind of forum service for the grantmaking
side of the house, and I love the idea of both 44net users and grantees
being able to co-mingle if they like.
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/22/22 9:15 AM, Mark Stevenson via 44net wrote:
My 2-pence…
I have used groups.io <http://groups.io> for a long time and see no
reason why we shouldn’t continue using it.
Sometimes, paying for something offers guarantees and SLAs you just
won’t get out of ‘doing it yourself’ and it makes sense to bite the
bullet and leave someone else manage the infrastructure.
The cloud is just someone else’s server… that’s it… a marketing term to
give something lesser technical people could understand when explaining
the internet.
I didn’t think this group would have the same preconceptions of the
internet other groups do 😂 but we are radio amateurs first and foremost.
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 17:05, Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
On 22 Apr 2022, at 15:45, Teton Amateur Radio
Repeater Association
via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
wrote:
Well, there are some interesting comments. One being the cost of
service. If you look at the discourse link, right away it says it
is $100 per month, so it is not free.
That's for the hosted version. The software itself is open source
and you can host it yourself at no cost.
And if they were to decide this group was a business then it is
$300 per month. Still not free. Trying to find pricing
forgroups.io <http://groups.io/>shows starting at $20 per month
for up to 500 members. I don't have any idea how many members
there may be to this group.
Just under 1,000 members. groups.io <http://groups.io> do an
enterprise edition for $200/month but they discount this by 50% to
non-profits.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based".
Anything you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or
another.
Indeed, “cloud based” just means it’s on a server in a datacenter
when you boil it down. “Cloud” is more of a marketing term than a
technical term.
A few years ago when most of the groups were jumping from Yahoo
some of the groups talked about google. That is probably one of
the worst places to go to. I, along with several others in several
groups said if they went to google we would drop out. That hasn't
changed for me. Trust google for much of anything? Good luck with
that.
+1 Google is definitely NOT the way to go IMO.
A bit of my experience withgroups.io <http://groups.io/>. For
those who like the digest, it works, for those who like to get
email, it works, for those who just want to look at the messages
in the group, it works. It works well for archive and searching. A
couple of other good features, it allows an email receiver to
limit attachment size (for those inconsiderate people who think
they have to send an image that is 10 megs and larger) so instead
it sends a link for the attachment. Also, if a user is no longer
interested in getting email about a subject, it allows that user
to mute the subject, which means they don't get any more emails
about it. Since I don't manage any groups, I'm sure there are
several management tools available to manage the group.
I’ve been using groups.io <http://groups.io> practically since it
began, I manage several groups and have contributed to their beta
programme. I have made several suggestions for improvements, most of
which they have implemented. They are very open to suggestions for
improvements and seem keen to keep their customer base happy. It’s
not open source, which is a shame, but it is by far the best option,
hands down, IMHO.
Now if someone fancies writing an open source clone of groups.io
<http://groups.io> they would be on to a winner!
if we are going to move from a plain text mailing list, I would vote
groups.io <http://groups.io> - apart from the “not open source” and
the price tag (which ARDC can easily afford) it has no other
negatives that I can think of.
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org 
11:50 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
Mailman /email is preferred here too. I am glad the new mailman web
interface has a way to search the archives. That was lacking in the
previous version.
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 11:45 AM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Y'all, thank you so much for this discussion. It's really helpful to
read your thoughts. It seems that the group is heavily weighted towards
using Groups.io. I also see the comments re: sticking with Mailman,
which is is totally an option.
As Chris has mentioned, the hesitation to using them boils down to it
being a hosted (vs. self-hosted) service. We're going to read the terms
of service and see if there's anything in there we object to. Here they
are in case others are interested:
https://groups.io/static/tos
We definitely wish to use some kind of forum service for the grantmaking
side of the house, and I love the idea of both 44net users and grantees
being able to co-mingle if they like.
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/22/22 9:15 AM, Mark Stevenson via 44net wrote:
My 2-pence…
I have used groups.io <http://groups.io> for a long time and see no
reason why we shouldn’t continue using it.
Sometimes, paying for something offers guarantees and SLAs you just
won’t get out of ‘doing it yourself’ and it makes sense to bite the
bullet and leave someone else manage the infrastructure.
The cloud is just someone else’s server… that’s it… a marketing term to
give something lesser technical people could understand when explaining
the internet.
I didn’t think this group would have the same preconceptions of the
internet other groups do 😂 but we are radio amateurs first and foremost.
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 17:05, Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org On 22 Apr 2022, at 15:45, Teton Amateur Radio
Repeater Association
via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
wrote:
Well, there are some interesting comments. One being the cost of
service. If you look at the discourse link, right away it says it
is $100 per month, so it is not free.
That's for the hosted version. The software itself is open source
and you can host it yourself at no cost.
And if they were to decide this group was a business then it is
$300 per month. Still not free. Trying to find pricing
forgroups.io <http://groups.io/>shows starting at $20 per month
for up to 500 members. I don't have any idea how many members
there may be to this group.
Just under 1,000 members. groups.io <http://groups.io> do an
enterprise edition for $200/month but they discount this by 50% to
non-profits.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based".
Anything you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or
another.
Indeed, “cloud based” just means it’s on a server in a datacenter
when you boil it down. “Cloud” is more of a marketing term than a
technical term.
A few years ago when most of the groups were jumping from Yahoo
some of the groups talked about google. That is probably one of
the worst places to go to. I, along with several others in several
groups said if they went to google we would drop out. That hasn't
changed for me. Trust google for much of anything? Good luck with
that.
+1 Google is definitely NOT the way to go IMO.
A bit of my experience withgroups.io <http://groups.io/>. For
those who like the digest, it works, for those who like to get
email, it works, for those who just want to look at the messages
in the group, it works. It works well for archive and searching. A
couple of other good features, it allows an email receiver to
limit attachment size (for those inconsiderate people who think
they have to send an image that is 10 megs and larger) so instead
it sends a link for the attachment. Also, if a user is no longer
interested in getting email about a subject, it allows that user
to mute the subject, which means they don't get any more emails
about it. Since I don't manage any groups, I'm sure there are
several management tools available to manage the group.
I’ve been using groups.io <http://groups.io> practically since it
began, I manage several groups and have contributed to their beta
programme. I have made several suggestions for improvements, most of
which they have implemented. They are very open to suggestions for
improvements and seem keen to keep their customer base happy. It’s
not open source, which is a shame, but it is by far the best option,
hands down, IMHO.
Now if someone fancies writing an open source clone of groups.io
<http://groups.io> they would be on to a winner!
if we are going to move from a plain text mailing list, I would vote
groups.io <http://groups.io> - apart from the “not open source” and
the price tag (which ARDC can easily afford) it has no other
negatives that I can think of.
Chris - G1FEF
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11:57 p.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
As mentioned earlier, groups.io provides some additional features which we
could consolidate, eg. Wiki, File Repository, Polls, Light Database, Chat,
etc. With one place to go to connect to them. For those who want
everything in email, including limiting your received email to plain text.
A couple of features I like are sub-groups (we can have multiple sub-groups
for things like VPN, 44-Net, Grants, HAMNET, Hamwan, etc. or
regional/language specific) so people can focus their discussions and you
can setup both social login (Google/Facebook) and a list of email addresses
that you can send from (e.g. k7ve(a)k7ve.org and john.hays(a)ardc.net for me).
--
John D. Hays
Kingston, WA
K7VE / WRJT-215
23 Apr
23 Apr
1:05 a.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
Groups.io is the best solution
A sexta, 22/04/2022, 17:58, John D. Hays via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
escreveu:
As mentioned earlier, groups.io provides some
additional features which
we could consolidate, eg. Wiki, File Repository, Polls, Light Database,
Chat, etc. With one place to go to connect to them. For those who want
everything in email, including limiting your received email to plain text.
A couple of features I like are sub-groups (we can have multiple
sub-groups for things like VPN, 44-Net, Grants, HAMNET, Hamwan, etc. or
regional/language specific) so people can focus their discussions and you
can setup both social login (Google/Facebook) and a list of email addresses
that you can send from (e.g. k7ve(a)k7ve.org and john.hays(a)ardc.net for
me).
--
John D. Hays
Kingston, WA
K7VE / WRJT-215
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27 Apr
27 Apr
4:11 a.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
Hi folks,
Thanks so much for the discussion on this last week. It was really
helpful to see your thoughts and feedback. We also got to have some
discussion about this internally this morning – or, well, evening for
Chris.
Aside from server stability and backup issues (which have been solved)
the other problems we were looking at were:
* Searching the archives (previously unavailable)
* Providing a space for discussion between grantees / for topics that
are outside the scope of the 44net mailing list
* Within that discussion, allowing for participants to find threads by topic
* Creating cross-pollination between grantees and 44net mailing list
members.
Given that the cross-pollination is a nice-to-have rather than a
need-to-have, that the new mailman interface does allow for searching
the archives, and that migrating this mailing list to any new system
will likely come with pain and user drop-off, it makes sense for this
mailing list to remain on its existing and updated mailman instance. We
can always create a forum (e.g. Groups.io or Discourse) for other topics.
If / when we create such a forum space, obviously everyone here will be
invited. In the meantime, please continue to enjoy this updated Mailman.
And thank you, Chris, for all the work you've done to make it happen.
73,
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/22/22 12:48 PM, Paul Sladen via 44net wrote:
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Jorge Santos via 44net wrote:
[XYZ] is the best solution
Depends what something is being measured against.
What we have not yet seen documented is what "the problem" is.
-Paul
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4:52 a.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
On Tue, 26 Apr 2022, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
... migrating this mailing list to any new system will
likely come
with pain and user drop-off, it makes sense for this mailing list
to remain
Thank you; this seems a wise conclusion,
-Paul
6:37 a.m.
New subject: Mailman migration
On 27/4/22 7:11 am, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Given that the cross-pollination is a nice-to-have rather than a
need-to-have, that the new mailman interface does allow for searching
the archives, and that migrating this mailing list to any new system
will likely come with pain and user drop-off, it makes sense for this
mailing list to remain on its existing and updated mailman instance.
We can always create a forum (e.g. Groups.io or Discourse) for other
topics.
Mailman does the job pretty well, and I think we're now at an "if
it
ain't broke..." stage. :) However, I will still mention that any future
discussions on web only forums (Discourse, etc) will be effectively
inaccessible to me for day to day use. Groups.io for these new services
would be fine, as I'd simply subscribe to any of interest via email,
like I do with this list.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
973
days inactive
977
days old
12 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Chris KE2A -
Chris Smith -
John D. Hays -
Jorge Santos -
Mark Stevenson -
Paul Sladen -
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV -
Steve L -
Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association -
Tony Langdon