44net

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3201 discussions

Directly connect 44nets
by Steve Wright 21 Apr '14

21 Apr '14

Wow a big flow of good information, and instant updates to the wiki! Well this is the problem isn't - noobs causing problems broadcasting the wrong information on the Internet and getting blocked by their ISP. We seriously need a properly written checklist, so that ordinary ham radio 'engineers' can actually build this stuff themselves. Approaching my ISP with some half-baked idea would be a quick way to get permanently ignored. -- Meshnetworks - Rangitaiki Plains Rural Broadband Internet Providers +64 21 040 5067

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Re: [44net] 44Net Digest, Vol 3, Issue 78
by Steve Wright 21 Apr '14

21 Apr '14

> my thought is we need > more people working on finishing the portal first. What exactly is that going to DO? Here I am sitting on my hands trying to figure out how to get my (already allocated MONTHS AGO) /24 connected to the flamin internet. No one seems focussed on making a wiki entry about THAT. Rather, they'd be happier tunneling their little private network to someone elses'. It seems that many other groups have been waiting YEARS for this assistance or documentation, and MANY other groups who have just given up in disgust. Would the people who ACTUALLY HAVE a properly connected (live to the internet) 44 subnet that they openly brag about, kindly document the bloody thing in the wiki so I can do it as well? This isn't a dick measuring group, its a networking group. You know what you're doing, so write it up so mere mortals can achieve a positive result as well. There needs to be a sample equipment list with DIY workarounds for those with time but not money, and there needs to be a VERY well written document-set to hand to my ISP so I don't scare them into just plain refusing my request, or unduly taxing their tech team. Thank you.

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Re: [44net] how to announce directly (Was 44Net Digest, Vol 3, Issue 78)
by Bryan Fields 21 Apr '14

21 Apr '14

On 4/20/14, 7:27 PM, Neil Johnson wrote: > I've summarized Eric's explanation and added an entry to the wiki. > > http://wiki.ampr.org/index.php/Announcing_your_allocation_directly +1. I think the point is if you have to ask how to connect (announce) your /24 to the internet you probably shouldn't be doing it on your own, your ISP needs to do it for you. Perhaps a overview of internet routing process is needed, as I want the 44/net to be a place to learn, but we need to ensure people understand what they are doing before messing with the global table. This is quite simple, but the LoA (letter of authority) and required information can be daunting to those who've never done it before. Also, if you're on the digest version, can you change the subject of your reply? I've been ignoring this thread since I didn't feel like reading it all at once. 73's -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice 727-214-2508 - Fax http://bryanfields.net

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Re: [44net] how to announce directly (Was 44Net Digest, Vol 3, Issue 78)
by Bryan Fields 21 Apr '14

21 Apr '14

On 4/20/14, 9:24 PM, Neil Johnson wrote: > and do my part > for keeping the global BGP routing table from expanding faster I disagree, I work for a company that sells routers. :D -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice 727-214-2508 - Fax http://bryanfields.net

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Re: [44net] 44Net Digest, Vol 3, Issue 78
by Tim Osburn 20 Apr '14

20 Apr '14

Steve, Part of the request for 44-IP space from Brian for the intent to advertise it on the Internet is a ISP who is already willing and offered to do this. If this hasn't already been done the IP space you have may not have Brian's approval for that type of use. (But rather used for just IP-in-IP tunnel service) So before you go down that path you may want to check with him first. Once that is completed and you have a LoA (Letter of Authority) from Brian stating you have his approval to advertise this space on the Internet you should be able to do the following. (Some ISP's ask for a LoA, and most should ask). Also note the other requirements that one agrees too: http://www.ampr.org/tos.txt 1) Once you've already discussed this with yoru ISP and they are willing to do this, let the ISP know the IP space and send them the LoA. They will need this so that they can setup the required configs, notify their upstreams, and setup routing of that block to your router. This could take a couple of days, and unless they are HAM friendly (this really helps) or you also purchase a lot of services form them, I would have to guess they may charge for this service. 2) Have your ISP advertise the 44 space assigned to you using their existing BGP ASN and then have them route you your 44 block to your router. 3) This is probably why no one has written this because each person setup will be different depending on how you will use the space. But for yours (with not having any details at all) I will assume you have a router that connects to your ISP with three interfaces. One interface will connect to your ISP and that interface will have a external public routable IP, one interface will point to your internal network with perhaps a 192.168.0.1/24 IP running NAT on that interface. The 3rd interface will be a DMZ network where the 44-net addresses will live. Perhaps a switch plugs into this interface and a different switch plugs into your Internet NAT interface. (don't mix the two within the same logical network/switch/vlan). NOTE: This is only one very simplified example. https://www.osburn.com/ampr_network-140420-1.0.0-example_network.jpg Tim Osburn www.osburn.com W7RSZ On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Steve Wright wrote: > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 09:22:02 +1200 > From: Steve Wright <stevewrightnz(a)gmail.com> > Reply-To: AMPRNet working group <44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu> > To: 44net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu > Subject: Re: [44net] 44Net Digest, Vol 3, Issue 78 > > (Please trim inclusions from previous messages) > _______________________________________________ >> my thought is we need >> more people working on finishing the portal first. > > What exactly is that going to DO? > > Here I am sitting on my hands trying to figure out how to get my (already > allocated MONTHS AGO) /24 connected to the flamin internet. No one seems > focussed on making a wiki entry about THAT. Rather, they'd be happier > tunneling their little private network to someone elses'. It seems that > many other groups have been waiting YEARS for this assistance or > documentation, and MANY other groups who have just given up in disgust. > > Would the people who ACTUALLY HAVE a properly connected (live to the > internet) 44 subnet that they openly brag about, kindly document the bloody > thing in the wiki so I can do it as well? This isn't a dick measuring > group, its a networking group. You know what you're doing, so write it up > so mere mortals can achieve a positive result as well. > > There needs to be a sample equipment list with DIY workarounds for those > with time but not money, and there needs to be a VERY well written > document-set to hand to my ISP so I don't scare them into just plain > refusing my request, or unduly taxing their tech team. > > Thank you. >

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Re: [44net] Test New Tool - APRS Code Recovery
by kb9mwr＠gmail.com 20 Apr '14

20 Apr '14

It appears to work. You mentioned you weren't intending to provide access to the code, but how about the code that looks at the source IP / password requirement part? I'm one of those guys who still hasn't fully wrapped their head around PHP yet, so I'd like to see how you did that part. On that topic, maybe we should have a place/repository on the amprnet to put ham specific software. A while back I posted a link to a web based rig control application I was running. It uses hamlib for backend and php for a front end. Here is more info: http://kb9mwr.blogspot.com/2013/04/raspberry-pi-web-based-rig-control.html As for the ARDC director position discussions, my thought is we need more people working on finishing the portal first. I am sure Chris would appreciate that.

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Re: [44net] 44Net Digest, Vol 3, Issue 77
by Steve Wright 19 Apr '14

19 Apr '14

> > The IP space is owned by > > > > Amateur Radio Digital Communications > > > > per the whois. > > > > ARIN requires a legal entity to exist in order to receive the IP space. > Actually it doesn't sound like it's "owned" by ardc at all. Why do you state this to be so? Your mention of your lawyers smacks of stand over tactics. > 1. Minor: That everyone include his/her callsign as part of the > message, either in the "From" line (my preference) or in the signature. > 2. Major: That messages with a subject line that includes the name of a > digest, be blocked/rejected. This is not to be cruel or mean, but > to insure that others (like me) actually read the message. I doubt > that I'm the only one that refuses to read messages with a subject > line that is a digest name. No. No one is interested in your extra rules. Think up something actually useful and interesting, and contribute that.

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44/8 allocation
by lleachii.aol.com 19 Apr '14

19 Apr '14

Regarding the 44/8 and IANA: Please don't "shake the hornets' nest," by asking IANA or ARIN. While IANA issued the /8 when it ran "Internet Registry," it is actually referenced in RFCs. It is a technical fixture of the "DARPA Internet" that the 44/8 addresses are AMPRNET. The legal question of: "is an IP address property, and if so, do legacy IP holders have different property rights than those allocated from RIRs" is a DANGEROUS question to venture into having solved before IPv4 "goes the way" of thrift store dialup modems. Why? Because of all those who still hold legacy allocations: AMPRNet is the only one that is: - non-commercial - nonprofit - not part of military-industrial complex - not part of the big-pharmaceutical industry - not governmental - not part of big-telecom - not part of the financial industry - not part one the major corporations, nations or firms that help rebuild/establish/maintain the infrastructure of the globe during/after World War II What /8 do you think they'll try to take first when the world's number resources approach 0.01 /8's remaining to allocate??? -KB3VWG

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Running for ARDC director position
by Bart Kus 18 Apr '14

18 Apr '14

Hello, I'd like to join the board of ARDC. Having studied the situation a bit, it looks to me like ARDC is in a bad situation right now. Should Brian get hit by a bus, the corporation will no longer have any directors or officers. Its assets would then be disseminated by a court during the dismantling of the corporation. This means the address space would be given away to whoever the court decides, which could include ARIN for re-purposing as commercial space. I'm not 100% on this, since there is scant documentation on the heritage of 44/8 and its present legal ownership status. I believe it's "legacy space", but ARIN doesn't seem to agree: the netblock suffix does not end with -Z. As "legacy space" there should be some chain of ownership documented somewhere, and I'm just not finding it. Having read the bylaws, I also haven't managed to find how I might go about becoming elected. The processes for replacement and removal of directors are defined (majority vote of board members), but I don't see how elections to vacant positions are supposed to take place. I'd also like to say that a board electing itself is not the best model of governance for a non-profit corporation. Non-profits are supposed to serve some need: in this case the needs of amateurs who wish to make use of 44/8 space. I'd like to see a governance model where the users elect the directors who best represent their needs. This is one crucial governance change that I think absolutely needs to happen. Aside from governance, there are several technical issues that I'd like to see brought up to speed with modern standards, and published as part of official interface specifications for AMPRnet. I don't want to get too detailed in this email, but a top-level list of technical things I'd push for as director includes: 1) Support for BGP 2) Support for IPsec(AH) 3) Support for anycasting 4) An improved gateway registration process with IP ownership verification 5) Support for DNS delegation 6) Support for DNSSEC signing 7) Deployment of multiple regional Internet gateways to remove the UCSD single point of failure 8) Adoption of the Extensible Provisioning Protocol 9) Publication of official multi-platform software which simplifies the AMPRnet user experience I've experienced opposition on implementing points 3 and 5 so far, and I'm reluctant to attempt any more of these agenda items without some changes to how the organization makes decisions. There are no technical blockers here, as all of these technologies I mentioned are widely used on the Internet today. However, it's nearly impossible to achieve technical leadership when decisions require universal consensus, and/or the decision making process is undefined. AMPR needs more board members who can push such technologies forward, and participate in the official decision making process while relying on their deep technical expertise to ensure their votes are sound. In terms of my qualifications for board duty, I founded the HamWAN organization in Washington which has deployed a regional microwave network, uses AMPRnet IP space, and has based its standard designs on the latest & greatest hardware and software has to offer. Professionally, I'd been running Internet services since 1996. Presently I work on routing for a major cloud provider. I'd like to bring the same kind of innovation to AMPRnet as I did with HamWAN. On the governance standpoint, I drafted the HamWAN bylaws in very intentional ways. Ways that empower the volunteers who are doing the active work that contributes to progress. Governance overhead is minimal so everyone can just mostly focus on the problems at hand. So, what are the next steps here? --Bart

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Mailing list suggestions
by Dean Gibson AE7Q 18 Apr '14

18 Apr '14

1. Minor: That everyone include his/her callsign as part of the message, either in the "From" line (my preference) or in the signature. 2. Major: That messages with a subject line that includes the name of a digest, be blocked/rejected. This is not to be cruel or mean, but to insure that others (like me) actually read the message. I doubt that I'm the only one that refuses to read messages with a subject line that is a digest name.

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