20 Aug
2013
20 Aug
'13
3:32 a.m.
I am interested in something simple. I am not interested in creating a
Linux box to do my routing, as I see no need for it. It's almost worse than
having a network that is vendor specific!! I don't tell you how to run your
internet.. you don't tell me what router I have to use.
I use Mikrotik for my edge technology, just because it's what I am familiar
with. For me it's easy enough. I am interested in creating some links with
others, hopefully in the NW towards the Seattle area. I have my own system
design that I am planning on implementing starting early this fall. I have
no interest however in trying to use some script (nice work on it though..)
to make it work, but would rather have some common assembly of networks
that can connect to each other. Unfortunatley, until this is done in a
large enough fashion, it looks like i am talking static routes to and from
some other networks.
My intention is not to rock the boat of what has been done here, but it
seem like there is little direction of how the network is assembled and
coming to a common point of presence. until one person or gorup comes up
and offers some stability of how to route the network accordingly, I fear
my use of AMPR is only for some of it's tunneling ability with the use of
our 44/8 addressing. I had no intentions of it before, so if I end up not
using them later, now loss on my end.
Let me know if anyone is interested in creating some more static links, and
/ or trying to do some sort of edge router that can have an open
communications standard, and not a customized (could otherwise spelled
proprietary) protocol in the middle.
Thanks to you all and have a great day!
--
Rod Ekholm
KC7AAD
kc7aad(a)gmail.com
Spokane, WA
(509) 435-3400
20 Aug
20 Aug
4:09 p.m.
On 20.08.13. 04:32, Rod Ekholm wrote:
Let me know if anyone is interested in creating some
more static links, and
/ or trying to do some sort of edge router that can have an open
communications standard, and not a customized (could otherwise spelled
proprietary) protocol in the middle.
Count me in. I am in the same boat as you are :)
I am also waiting to see if there would some easy-for-human-to-implement
solution to activate my subnet.
Although I did not manage to connect my network to AMPR due to unusual
routing I think I do understand what is the problem.
Thing is 44/8 is maintained as one verz large PRIVATE network. It is
router to public, or better, some portions are routed but not all.
This leads to a problem: we cannot simply route to other 44/8 subnets as
they are not reachable through Internet. We have to establish VPNs to
them to be able to route. As there are not some aggregating routing
points, we have to make VPN for (almost) each subnet.
I guess that is the reason for odd routing procedure: you do not have to
crate just a route but VPN too...
I guess that is a problem which is not easy to resolve.
I agree with you that pinning service on something like customized RIP
protocol unknown to any router in wide use. I already suggested that
ampr.org should offer not just encap.txt file bit also pre-generated
scripts for routers which are commonly in use, like Mikrotik, you
mentioned, and which, I also use.
I agree it is not the nicest approach we can have, but it is at least
easy to implement and most important, it would allow humans to be able
to get at least involved.
Pedja
YT9TP
7:46 p.m.
I'm running Mikrotik RouterOS on a machine directly connected to the
Internet (it has a public IP, no NAT, no Firewall except it's own). I
runs smoothly so far. I'm using a Python script from
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/tree/master/amprupdate (I
made a few customisations to address a issues with my specific setup)
to create the IPIP interfaces, add routes and some routing policy
rules (customisation).
The AMPR fullmesh works almost as well on Mikrotik as on Linux. I
haven't had any issues with the IPIP fullmesh so far (on Linux and
Mikrotik RouterOS).
We are using this Mikrotik machine in LX to connect some sites to the
AMPR which are behind NAT and which cannot run their own IPIP
interfaces. The NATted sites use OpenVPN (may we'll add SSTP) to
connect to the Mikrotik machine. Within AMPR all the subnets are
routed to the Mikrotik machine which routes them via the OpenVPN links
to the remote sites.
I have installed a reference site at my home, connected via OpenVPN to
the Mikrotik machine. To demonstrate the performance I'm accessing
several major video streaming sites without any connection issues.
Packet flow is steady with acceptable jitter for HAM usage. The
runtime is around 200ms (RTT ~400ms), which is higher than normal but
remains unnoticed for HAM usage. I'm even running some VoIP and IM
systems on 44net addresses, latency depends on the uplinks and
distance between the sites. Within the nodes connected to my Mikrotik
machines I have a latency of 30 to 200ms (30ms is DSL on both ends and
200ms is GPRS on both ends) which remains completely unnoticed even
with VoIP services (unless you're calling the person standing next to
you).
So I have to disagree with your opinion. I can reach around 400 AMPR
subnets of different size directly via the IPIP fullmesh (respectively
with the help of my Mikrotik machine used as a tunnel server). My AMPR
subnets can also access the Internet and they are fully accessible
from the Internet. Access to the Internet and from the Internet is not
activated by default and you have to create a DNS entry for each AMPR
IP address which should be able to access the Internet respectively be
accessed from the Internet.
I intend to "open" my Mikrotik machine to other HAMs around the world
having issues with NAT or ISP/University Firewall and hence cannot
connect to the IPIP Fullmesh directly but I need to do some upgrades
first (RAM, CPU, bandwidth).
73 de Marc, LX1DUC
Quoting YT9TP - Pedja <yt9tp(a)uzice.net>et>:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 20.08.13. 04:32, Rod Ekholm wrote:
Let me know if anyone is interested in creating
some more static links, and
/ or trying to do some sort of edge router that can have an open
communications standard, and not a customized (could otherwise spelled
proprietary) protocol in the middle.
Count me in. I am in the same boat as you are :)
I am also waiting to see if there would some
easy-for-human-to-implement solution to activate my subnet.
Although I did not manage to connect my network to AMPR due to
unusual routing I think I do understand what is the problem.
Thing is 44/8 is maintained as one verz large PRIVATE network. It is
router to public, or better, some portions are routed but not all.
This leads to a problem: we cannot simply route to other 44/8
subnets as they are not reachable through Internet. We have to
establish VPNs to them to be able to route. As there are not some
aggregating routing points, we have to make VPN for (almost) each
subnet.
I guess that is the reason for odd routing procedure: you do not
have to crate just a route but VPN too...
I guess that is a problem which is not easy to resolve.
I agree with you that pinning service on something like customized
RIP protocol unknown to any router in wide use. I already suggested
that ampr.org should offer not just encap.txt file bit also
pre-generated scripts for routers which are commonly in use, like
Mikrotik, you mentioned, and which, I also use.
I agree it is not the nicest approach we can have, but it is at
least easy to implement and most important, it would allow humans to
be able to get at least involved.
Pedja
YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
21 Aug
21 Aug
12:10 p.m.
On 20.8.2013 20:46, Marc, LX1DUC wrote:
I'm running Mikrotik RouterOS on a machine
directly connected to the
Internet (it has a public IP, no NAT, no Firewall except it's own). I
runs smoothly so far. I'm using a Python script from
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/tree/master/amprupdate (I made
a few customisations to address a issues with my specific setup) to
create the IPIP interfaces, add routes and some routing policy rules
(customisation).
The AMPR fullmesh works almost as well on Mikrotik as on Linux. I
haven't had any issues with the IPIP fullmesh so far (on Linux and
Mikrotik RouterOS).
We are using this Mikrotik machine in LX to connect some sites to the
AMPR which are behind NAT and which cannot run their own IPIP
interfaces. The NATted sites use OpenVPN (may we'll add SSTP) to connect
to the Mikrotik machine. Within AMPR all the subnets are routed to the
Mikrotik machine which routes them via the OpenVPN links to the remote
sites.
One correction. You are not using just Mikrotik, but Mikrotik + Linux
machine that fills it in with settings.
Appropriate solution I was talking about is using Mikrotik alone. If I
have to set up Linux machine just to fill in Mikrotik settings that is
something basically wrong with that requirement from my point of view.
That is why I suggested that, as that Python script runs fine and
produces fine results, it could be good idea to run it on ampr.org site
to create script file that sets up IPIP interfaces and routing, so we
can download that script using Mikrotik device and run it within
Mikrotik device to set up all things properly without need to set up
external Linux machine to do the job.
I asked few times if anyone is using Mikrotik and is willing to export
IPIP interface and routing settings to sent it to me to examine and see
how this can be used in general. Noone responded.
So I have to disagree with your opinion. I can reach
around 400 AMPR
subnets of different size directly via the IPIP fullmesh (respectively
with the help of my Mikrotik machine used as a tunnel server).
Networking is not an issue when routing works. We have hard time setting
up routing for 44/8.
I intend to "open" my Mikrotik machine to
other HAMs around the world
having issues with NAT or ISP/University Firewall and hence cannot
connect to the IPIP Fullmesh directly but I need to do some upgrades
first (RAM, CPU, bandwidth).
That is very kind and generous but that means you would have to deal
with additional traffic as routes for others will go through your router
and internet connection.
By making us able to easily route 44/8 by ourselves then there is no
need that we have to use other's resources.
Again, networking is not an issue. Problem is that we are actually
forced to use special setup and additional hardware for 44/8 network.
Pedja
YT9TP
1:15 p.m.
Please explain by providing further details:
1) We have hard time setting up routing for 44/8.
2) By making us able to easily route 44/8 by ourselves then there is
no need that we have to use other's resources.
73 de Marc, LX1DUC
Quoting YT9TP Pedja <yt9tp(a)uzice.net>et>:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 20.8.2013 20:46, Marc, LX1DUC wrote:
I'm running Mikrotik RouterOS on a machine
directly connected to the
Internet (it has a public IP, no NAT, no Firewall except it's own). I
runs smoothly so far. I'm using a Python script from
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/tree/master/amprupdate (I made
a few customisations to address a issues with my specific setup) to
create the IPIP interfaces, add routes and some routing policy rules
(customisation).
The AMPR fullmesh works almost as well on Mikrotik as on Linux. I
haven't had any issues with the IPIP fullmesh so far (on Linux and
Mikrotik RouterOS).
We are using this Mikrotik machine in LX to connect some sites to the
AMPR which are behind NAT and which cannot run their own IPIP
interfaces. The NATted sites use OpenVPN (may we'll add SSTP) to connect
to the Mikrotik machine. Within AMPR all the subnets are routed to the
Mikrotik machine which routes them via the OpenVPN links to the remote
sites.
One correction. You are not using just Mikrotik, but Mikrotik +
Linux machine that fills it in with settings.
Appropriate solution I was talking about is using Mikrotik alone. If
I have to set up Linux machine just to fill in Mikrotik settings
that is something basically wrong with that requirement from my
point of view.
That is why I suggested that, as that Python script runs fine and
produces fine results, it could be good idea to run it on ampr.org
site to create script file that sets up IPIP interfaces and routing,
so we can download that script using Mikrotik device and run it
within Mikrotik device to set up all things properly without need to
set up external Linux machine to do the job.
I asked few times if anyone is using Mikrotik and is willing to
export IPIP interface and routing settings to sent it to me to
examine and see how this can be used in general. Noone responded.
So I have to disagree with your opinion. I can
reach around 400 AMPR
subnets of different size directly via the IPIP fullmesh (respectively
with the help of my Mikrotik machine used as a tunnel server).
Networking is not an issue when routing works. We have hard time
setting up routing for 44/8.
I intend to "open" my Mikrotik machine
to other HAMs around the world
having issues with NAT or ISP/University Firewall and hence cannot
connect to the IPIP Fullmesh directly but I need to do some upgrades
first (RAM, CPU, bandwidth).
That is very kind and generous but that means you would have to deal
with additional traffic as routes for others will go through your
router and internet connection.
By making us able to easily route 44/8 by ourselves then there is no
need that we have to use other's resources.
Again, networking is not an issue. Problem is that we are actually
forced to use special setup and additional hardware for 44/8 network.
Pedja
YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
22 Aug
22 Aug
4:19 p.m.
On 21.08.13. 14:15, Marc, LX1DUC wrote:
Please explain by providing further details:
1) We have hard time setting up routing for 44/8.
There is no detailed explanation how it works and what actually has to
be set up.
There are instructions how to set things blindly, as recipe what to
install and set in predefined environment and hope it wil work.
If one uses different environment (different os, router or else) he is
left blank. No info how routing system within 44/8 works and what
actually has to be done so that one may try to set his routing up on his
own.
For example, the best I got is recommended python script that is suppose
d to connect to my Mikrotik router and set it up. In my case it di not
work (produced just syntax errors) so I was unable to see some example
configuration at least.
During the time, by following this list I guessed out what actually has
to be done and I tried to set up routing manually without success. It
might be I did not understand something well, or I tried to set up
routes to some networks that actually do not work, or something else.
Anyways, all is just guessing.
2) By making us able to easily route 44/8 by ourselves
then there is no
need that we have to use other's resources.
If I use offer to route my traffic though some other 44/8 subnet via
dedicated VPN then all my 44/8 traffic goes through that subnet router
and Internet link using their resources.
If I can route by myself, then traffic goes just through my connections
and directly to targeted 44/8 subnets.
I'm not sure how you could reliably export (at
least) your interface
list and route list, upload to some service and finally download a
personalised update script for your Mikrotik.
I am pretty sure it is very easy and nothing more complicated and
nothing more reliable than producing encap.txt
I am also sure, if I just could set up my Mikrotik to route 44/8 I would
already have that done so anyone with Mikrotik would be able to set it
up simply and efficiently.
But this still requires an additional machine,
although it
won't be yours.
Shure, the very same machine that generates encap.txt. It's the same
thing, just other format of text within a file.
My point is that there would not be requirement for anyone else to set
up whole Linux system just to be able to download encap.txt and convert
it to Mikrotik (or some other) format as it could be done just once at
the same time encap.txt is created.
Pedja
7:22 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 05:19:09PM +0200, YT9TP - Pedja wrote:
There is no detailed explanation how it works and what
actually has
to be set up.
You're right, of course. I can only explain that we did have some
documents explaining the network architecture and what the requirements
for connection are, but they were lost when the former ampr-gateways
wiki went down and was not recoverable.
I and others are in the process of writing documents and/or attempting
to recover the lost documents from web caches and other places and
getting them into the new ampr wiki. It's slow work and we've not
made the progress I'd hoped for.
I'd like to put out a call to all the subscribers to this mailing list
(really, to all AMPR experimenters) to write up your experiences and
add your comments to the wiki so that others may benefit from what
you've learned.
- Brian
7:52 p.m.
Hello Brian,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
Is this the place you're talking about, please?
Best regards.
Tom - sp2lob
8:19 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 08:52:40PM +0200, sp2lob(a)tlen.pl wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
Is this the place you're talking about, please?
No,please see
<http://wiki.ampr.org>
- Brian
23 Aug
23 Aug
8:04 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
There is no detailed explanation how it works and what
actually has
to be set up.
There are instructions how to set things blindly, as recipe what
to install and set in predefined environment and hope it wil work.
Sometimes learning within experimental environments is different.
There are no books, no lessons and no exercises you can follow. But in
this case you can use the work of others, use it and try to understand
it, start tweaking it to your needs etc etc. Some may call this
reverse-engineering or another kind of learning.
If one uses different environment (different os,
router or else) he
is left blank. No info how routing system within 44/8 works and
what actually has to be done so that one may try to set his routing
up on his own.
Start with howtos for known environments to learn, then adapt the
learned stuff to whatever environment you're using.
For example, the best I got is recommended python
script that is
suppose d to connect to my Mikrotik router and set it up. In my
case it di not work (produced just syntax errors) so I was unable
to see some example configuration at least.
Well a god starting point would have been to ask the author or the
list over here for some assistance, providing the error messages, your
config etc.
During the time, by following this list I guessed out
what actually
has to be done and I tried to set up routing manually without
success. It might be I did not understand something well, or I
tried to set up routes to some networks that actually do not work,
or something else. Anyways, all is just guessing.
Again, a god starting point would have been to for help here,
providing your results and error messages so far.
> 2) By making us able to easily route 44/8 by
ourselves then there
> is no need that we have to use other's resources.
My point is that there would not be requirement for
anyone else to
set up whole Linux system just to be able to download encap.txt and
convert it to Mikrotik (or some other) format as it could be done
just once at the same time encap.txt is created.
You have a serious design flaw here! The encap file is a generic list,
but Mikrotik needs something very very (platform) specific, the AMPR
portal can only provide generic lists.
73 de Marc
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21 Aug
21 Aug
1:22 p.m.
The mikrotik scripting support is quite limited as far I remember,
please correct me if I remember incorrectly.
I'm not sure how you could reliably export (at least) your interface
list and route list, upload to some service and finally download a
personalised update script for your Mikrotik. But this still requires
an additional machine, although it won't be yours. But IMHO it's
unfair to blame the community for a limitation introduced by choice
(first Mikrotik's choice to not implement and second your choice to
use Mikrotik).
OTOH Amateur Radio is about experimenting and do-it-yourself and
learning and studying, I'm not sure that there should be an
off-the-shelf product/service/script for everything. I personally
enjoy learning new things, as an example I didn't really know much
about Python before I started customising the python script available.
IMHO the way AMPR and the IPIP fullmesh is implemented right now
allows the largest possible freedom to the implementer, we can use
almost any tool, machine, etc etc to implement the IPIP fullmesh. I
think that's the way Amateur Radio is meant to be.
73 de Marc
Quoting YT9TP Pedja <yt9tp(a)uzice.net>et>:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 20.8.2013 20:46, Marc, LX1DUC wrote:
I'm running Mikrotik RouterOS on a machine
directly connected to the
Internet (it has a public IP, no NAT, no Firewall except it's own). I
runs smoothly so far. I'm using a Python script from
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/tree/master/amprupdate (I made
a few customisations to address a issues with my specific setup) to
create the IPIP interfaces, add routes and some routing policy rules
(customisation).
The AMPR fullmesh works almost as well on Mikrotik as on Linux. I
haven't had any issues with the IPIP fullmesh so far (on Linux and
Mikrotik RouterOS).
We are using this Mikrotik machine in LX to connect some sites to the
AMPR which are behind NAT and which cannot run their own IPIP
interfaces. The NATted sites use OpenVPN (may we'll add SSTP) to connect
to the Mikrotik machine. Within AMPR all the subnets are routed to the
Mikrotik machine which routes them via the OpenVPN links to the remote
sites.
One correction. You are not using just Mikrotik, but Mikrotik +
Linux machine that fills it in with settings.
Appropriate solution I was talking about is using Mikrotik alone. If
I have to set up Linux machine just to fill in Mikrotik settings
that is something basically wrong with that requirement from my
point of view.
That is why I suggested that, as that Python script runs fine and
produces fine results, it could be good idea to run it on ampr.org
site to create script file that sets up IPIP interfaces and routing,
so we can download that script using Mikrotik device and run it
within Mikrotik device to set up all things properly without need to
set up external Linux machine to do the job.
I asked few times if anyone is using Mikrotik and is willing to
export IPIP interface and routing settings to sent it to me to
examine and see how this can be used in general. Noone responded.
So I have to disagree with your opinion. I can
reach around 400 AMPR
subnets of different size directly via the IPIP fullmesh (respectively
with the help of my Mikrotik machine used as a tunnel server).
Networking is not an issue when routing works. We have hard time
setting up routing for 44/8.
I intend to "open" my Mikrotik machine
to other HAMs around the world
having issues with NAT or ISP/University Firewall and hence cannot
connect to the IPIP Fullmesh directly but I need to do some upgrades
first (RAM, CPU, bandwidth).
That is very kind and generous but that means you would have to deal
with additional traffic as routes for others will go through your
router and internet connection.
By making us able to easily route 44/8 by ourselves then there is no
need that we have to use other's resources.
Again, networking is not an issue. Problem is that we are actually
forced to use special setup and additional hardware for 44/8 network.
Pedja
YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html 
5:23 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:10 AM, YT9TP Pedja <yt9tp(a)uzice.net> wrote:
One correction. You are not using just Mikrotik, but Mikrotik + Linux
machine that fills it in with settings.
Appropriate solution I was talking about is using Mikrotik alone. If I have
to set up Linux machine just to fill in Mikrotik settings that is something
basically wrong with that requirement from my point of view.
That is why I suggested that, as that Python script runs fine and produces
fine results, it could be good idea to run it on ampr.org site to create
script file that sets up IPIP interfaces and routing, so we can download
that script using Mikrotik device and run it within Mikrotik device to set
up all things properly without need to set up external Linux machine to do
the job.
I asked few times if anyone is using Mikrotik and is willing to export IPIP
interface and routing settings to sent it to me to examine and see how this
can be used in general. Noone responded.
The script relies on reading your router's configuration to determine
what needs to be updated. If someone provided a static script, every
time you ran the script it would create 300+ IPIP interfaces, and
there would be no mechanism for deleting orphaned interfaces and
routes. One of the parameters to create the IPIP interface is your
local IP, so simply exporting someone else's configuration isn't going
to work either. It is critical that the script interacts with your
router.
You could implement this in something other than Python if you want,
like Mikrotik's native scripting language. I'm not very familiar with
Mikrotik's scripting language so I was not able to implement this
myself. I chose Python because I knew I could get it working quickly
and move on to something else.
I don't see occasional reliance on an external Linux server to be a
problem. AMPR routes do not change very often. If the Linux server
goes down for a few days the worst that is going to happen is you
might have a few routes go stale. To improve reliability, you could
run the Linux server on the same network as the Mikrotik router. You
could even run the Python script from Openwrt in a MetaROUTER running
on your primary Mikrotik router.
There are so many options here that simply asking someone else to do
it for you is not appropriate. Go forth and experiment!
Tom KD7LXL
22 Aug
22 Aug
10:44 a.m.
On 21.8.2013 18:23, Tom Hayward wrote:
The script relies on reading your router's
configuration to determine
what needs to be updated. If someone provided a static script, every
time you ran the script it would create 300+ IPIP interfaces, and
there would be no mechanism for deleting orphaned interfaces and
routes. One of the parameters to create the IPIP interface is your
local IP, so simply exporting someone else's configuration isn't going
to work either. It is critical that the script interacts with your
router.
I need export from working Mikrotik router set to route 44/8 subnet as
an example, so I can learn how it works and hopefully create Mikrotik
script that does what is necessary to make it applicable to any Mikrotik
router.
Can you provide me that example? It is just an export of IPIP settings
and routing table.
I do not expect problems with handling replacements or orphan settings.
You could implement this in something other than
Python if you want,
like Mikrotik's native scripting language. I'm not very familiar with
Mikrotik's scripting language so I was not able to implement this
myself. I chose Python because I knew I could get it working quickly
and move on to something else.
I have some experience with Mikrotik scripting and I can try, but I need
something to start from as I was unsuccessful to create such example
myself. Python script that is offered does not work here and I have not
enough Python and Linux knowledge to be able to make it work.
I don't see occasional reliance on an external
Linux server to be a
problem.
I do. First, I dislike my routers to depend on third parties, and
second, I do not have Linux server that can run that script.
You could even run the Python script from Openwrt in a
MetaROUTER
running on your primary Mikrotik router.
This is not available on all Mikrotik based routers. My guess is that,
at least in my area, most Mikrotik routers used would not have this as
an option.
There are so many options here that simply asking
someone else to do
it for you is not appropriate. Go forth and experiment!
This is rude and unnecessary approach. I did not ask anyone to do work
for me. All I asked was export from already set Mikrotik router so I can
have example I can work on to create necessary tools.
I already have several offers to simply establish VPN to other AMPR
subnets and they will do all the routing for me. I decided to first try
to make it on my own.
It seems that you do not understand that I do not need 44/8 subnet
addresses as they are just like any other private IP network. All I want
to do I can do fine using any other private IP subnet.
I want to use 44/8 to spread the word and help others to get involved.
And I am not alone.
When people see how things are complicated they simply turn in the other
way. Do you want me to do the same or to try to reach my goal to make it
simpler, and easier to implement, at least in the area where I have some
experience - Mikrotik routers.
Ok, message received, and it does explain a bit why there is not so much
people involved in AMPRNet.
Best wishes,
Pedja YT9TP
11:58 a.m.
There ara alot of clues in the amprupdate python script.
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/blob/master/amprupdate/amprupdate.…
Especially on line 159 and 160.
commands.append("/interface ipip add local-address=%s name=ampr-%s
remote-address=%s" % (wan_router_ip, interface, interface))
commands.append("/ip route add dst-address=%s gateway=ampr-%s" %
(dstaddress, interface))
In this case "wan_router_ip" is the IP of the WAN interface of your
Mikrotik router (the interface which gives access to the internet.)
"interface" is the remote gateway's public IP address.
"dstaddress" is the remote AMPR subnet.
Assuming that your "wan_router_ip" (see definition above) is 192.0.2.2.
Assuming that encap.txt only contains the following 2 entries:
route addprivate 44.128/19 encap 198.51.100.1
route addprivate 44.128.210/24 encap 203.0.113.1
this is what your script needs to produce:
/interface ipip add local-address=192.0.2.2 name=ampr-198.51.100.1
remote-address=198.51.100.1
/interface ipip add local-address=192.0.2.2 name=ampr-203.0.113.1
remote-address=203.0.113.1
/ip route add dst-address=44.128.0.0/19 gateway=ampr-198.51.100.1
/ip route add dst-address=44.128.210.0/24 gateway=ampr-203.0.113.1
As you see you will need to expand 44.128/19 to 44.128.0.0/19.
Depending on your setup, you may want to use routing-marks and routing
tables and routing rules etc.
73 de Marc, LX1DUC
Quoting YT9TP Pedja <yt9tp(a)uzice.net>et>:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 21.8.2013 18:23, Tom Hayward wrote:
The script relies on reading your router's
configuration to determine
what needs to be updated. If someone provided a static script, every
time you ran the script it would create 300+ IPIP interfaces, and
there would be no mechanism for deleting orphaned interfaces and
routes. One of the parameters to create the IPIP interface is your
local IP, so simply exporting someone else's configuration isn't going
to work either. It is critical that the script interacts with your
router.
I need export from working Mikrotik router set to route 44/8 subnet
as an example, so I can learn how it works and hopefully create
Mikrotik script that does what is necessary to make it applicable to
any Mikrotik router.
Can you provide me that example? It is just an export of IPIP
settings and routing table.
I do not expect problems with handling replacements or orphan settings.
You could implement this in something other than
Python if you want,
like Mikrotik's native scripting language. I'm not very familiar with
Mikrotik's scripting language so I was not able to implement this
myself. I chose Python because I knew I could get it working quickly
and move on to something else.
I have some experience with Mikrotik scripting and I can try, but I
need something to start from as I was unsuccessful to create such
example myself. Python script that is offered does not work here and
I have not enough Python and Linux knowledge to be able to make it
work.
I don't see occasional reliance on an
external Linux server to be a
problem.
I do. First, I dislike my routers to depend on third parties, and
second, I do not have Linux server that can run that script.
You could even run the Python script from Openwrt
in a MetaROUTER
running on your primary Mikrotik router.
This is not available on all Mikrotik based routers. My guess is
that, at least in my area, most Mikrotik routers used would not have
this as an option.
There are so many options here that simply asking
someone else to do
it for you is not appropriate. Go forth and experiment!
This is rude and unnecessary approach. I did not ask anyone to do
work for me. All I asked was export from already set Mikrotik router
so I can have example I can work on to create necessary tools.
I already have several offers to simply establish VPN to other AMPR
subnets and they will do all the routing for me. I decided to first
try to make it on my own.
It seems that you do not understand that I do not need 44/8 subnet
addresses as they are just like any other private IP network. All I
want to do I can do fine using any other private IP subnet.
I want to use 44/8 to spread the word and help others to get
involved. And I am not alone.
When people see how things are complicated they simply turn in the
other way. Do you want me to do the same or to try to reach my goal
to make it simpler, and easier to implement, at least in the area
where I have some experience - Mikrotik routers.
Ok, message received, and it does explain a bit why there is not so
much people involved in AMPRNet.
Best wishes,
Pedja YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
4:22 p.m.
On 22.08.13. 12:58, Marc, LX1DUC wrote:
There ara alot of clues in the amprupdate python
script.
https://github.com/kd7lxl/hamwan_scripts/blob/master/amprupdate/amprupdate.…
Especially on line 159 and 160.
commands.append("/interface ipip add local-address=%s name=ampr-%s
remote-address=%s" % (wan_router_ip, interface, interface))
commands.append("/ip route add dst-address=%s gateway=ampr-%s" %
(dstaddress, interface))
In this case "wan_router_ip" is the IP of the WAN interface of your
Mikrotik router (the interface which gives access to the internet.)
"interface" is the remote gateway's public IP address.
"dstaddress" is the remote AMPR subnet.
Assuming that your "wan_router_ip" (see definition above) is 192.0.2.2.
Assuming that encap.txt only contains the following 2 entries:
route addprivate 44.128/19 encap 198.51.100.1
route addprivate 44.128.210/24 encap 203.0.113.1
this is what your script needs to produce:
/interface ipip add local-address=192.0.2.2 name=ampr-198.51.100.1
remote-address=198.51.100.1
/interface ipip add local-address=192.0.2.2 name=ampr-203.0.113.1
remote-address=203.0.113.1
/ip route add dst-address=44.128.0.0/19 gateway=ampr-198.51.100.1
/ip route add dst-address=44.128.210.0/24 gateway=ampr-203.0.113.1
As you see you will need to expand 44.128/19 to 44.128.0.0/19.
Depending on your setup, you may want to use routing-marks and routing
tables and routing rules etc.
Something like this is the first thing I tried but was unable to set it
up to have routing work.
Thanks for an example. This is much more informative than digging
through that python script. Will let you know what I got.
Pedja
YT9TP
11:49 p.m.
Mark, using your example, I did some work.
Here in attachment is Mikrotik script that loads and parses encap.txt
file, and then creates IPIP interfaces and routes according to this file.
If attachment does not go through, source is available at
http://wireless.uzice.net/ampr/mikrotik-ampr-update.txt
This is work in progress. There are some stuff to add but basically it
works. It can:
- download encap.txt from remote site (i've put example encap.txt
available for download so script can be tested)
- parses encap.txt
- creates IPIP interfaces according to encap.txt
- sets static routes according to ecnap.txt
- it handles duplicate or obsolete interfaces and routes
- there are options for setting parameters to be applied to both
interfaces and routes on their creation so user can customize them fully.
I tested syntax of created interfaces and routes but not if routing
actually works as I still do not have working environment to do so. I
expect anyne who already has Mikrotik used for ampr routing can review
and see if all is done right, or maybe test on his router.
Pay attention: example enc.txt does not contain full 44/8 network info,
just few routes for testing puprose.
This is not exactly what I meant to accomplish but is good enough as an
example.
Pedja
YT9TP
11:55 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:49 PM, YT9TP - Pedja <yt9tp(a)uzice.net> wrote:
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
Mark, using your example, I did some work.
Here in attachment is Mikrotik script that loads and parses encap.txt file,
and then creates IPIP interfaces and routes according to this file.
If attachment does not go through, source is available at
http://wireless.uzice.net/ampr/mikrotik-ampr-update.txt
This is work in progress. There are some stuff to add but basically it
works. It can:
- download encap.txt from remote site (i've put example encap.txt available
for download so script can be tested)
What encap file did you test with? I thought Mikrotik had a 4KB limit
for reading text files.
Tom KD7LXL
23 Aug
23 Aug
9:20 a.m.
On 23.8.2013 0:55, Tom Hayward wrote:
What encap file did you test with? I thought Mikrotik
had a 4KB limit
for reading text files.
I used encap.txt trimmed to just few lines to easy debugging.
I did not realize there is such a limit. DOH! That makes my script unusable.
Well, at least I tried and I got proof of concept :)
Now, I will have to use another approach.
Pedja
YT9TP
9:31 a.m.
I have a simpler mikrotik script working. It isn't pretty but it updates the
router every day.
If your interested I can explain it.
My linux box downloads encap.txt from ftp site and processes it every night.
It then uploads a txt file with the commands in it to the router by ftp.
A simple script on the mickrotik the runs the commands within.
It works but isn't technical.
Best Regards,
Hugh Golding
TEQ Systems Limited
T +44 7841 749345
+ hugh(a)teqsys.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: 44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
[mailto:44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of YT9TP
Pedja
Sent: 23 August 2013 09:20
To: AMPRNet working group
Subject: Re: [44net] Something simple
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 23.8.2013 0:55, Tom Hayward wrote:
What encap file did you test with? I thought Mikrotik
had a 4KB limit
for reading text files.
I used encap.txt trimmed to just few lines to easy debugging.
I did not realize there is such a limit. DOH! That makes my script unusable.
Well, at least I tried and I got proof of concept :)
Now, I will have to use another approach.
Pedja
YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
9:51 a.m.
Linux Script File 1 :-
wget -O encap.txt -N /root/encap
https://portal.ampr.org/getdata.php?t=encap
/root/encap/process-encap-router.sh > /root/encap/router.raw.txt
ftp -n -i YOUR_ROUTER_EXTERNAL_ADDRESS <<EOF
user USERNAME PASSWORD
put /root/encap/router.txt encap.rsc
quit
EOF
****************************************************************************
*************************
Linux Script file 2 (process-encap-router.sh) :-
cat /root/encap/encap.txt | grep "^route" | grep -v " XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX"
| \
awk '{
split($3, s, "/")
split(s[1], n,".")
if (n[1] == "") n[1]="0"
if (n[2] == "") n[2]="0"
if (n[3] == "") n[3]="0"
if (n[4] == "") n[4]="0"
if (s[2] == "1") mask="128.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "2") mask="192.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "3") mask="224.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "4") mask="240.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "5") mask="248.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "6") mask="252.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "7") mask="254.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "8") mask="255.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "9") mask="255.128.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "10") mask="255.192.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "11") mask="255.224.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "12") mask="255.240.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "13") mask="255.248.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "14") mask="255.252.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "15") mask="255.254.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "16") mask="255.255.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "17") mask="255.255.128.0"
else if (s[2] == "18") mask="255.255.192.0"
else if (s[2] == "19") mask="255.255.224.0"
else if (s[2] == "20") mask="255.255.240.0"
else if (s[2] == "21") mask="255.255.248.0"
else if (s[2] == "22") mask="255.255.252.0"
else if (s[2] == "23") mask="255.255.254.0"
else if (s[2] == "24") mask="255.255.255.0"
else if (s[2] == "25") mask="255.255.255.128"
else if (s[2] == "26") mask="255.255.255.192"
else if (s[2] == "27") mask="255.255.255.224"
else if (s[2] == "28") mask="255.255.255.240"
else if (s[2] == "29") mask="255.255.255.248"
else if (s[2] == "30") mask="255.255.255.252"
else if (s[2] == "31") mask="255.255.255.254"
else mask="255.255.255.255"
if ($5 == "YOUR_ROUTER_EXTERNAL_ADDRESS")
printf ""
else
printf "interface ipip add name=ipip-ampr-%s
local-address=YOUR_ROUTER_EXTERNAL_ADDRESS remote-address=%s
disabled=no\r\nip address add address=YOUR_ROUTER_44_IP
interface=ipip-ampr-%s\r\n",$5,$5,$5
}'
cat /root/encap/encap.txt | grep "^route" | grep -v " XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX"
| \
awk '{
split($3, s, "/")
split(s[1], n,".")
if (n[1] == "") n[1]="0"
if (n[2] == "") n[2]="0"
if (n[3] == "") n[3]="0"
if (n[4] == "") n[4]="0"
if (s[2] == "1") mask="128.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "2") mask="192.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "3") mask="224.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "4") mask="240.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "6") mask="252.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "7") mask="254.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "8") mask="255.0.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "9") mask="255.128.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "10") mask="255.192.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "11") mask="255.224.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "12") mask="255.240.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "13") mask="255.248.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "14") mask="255.252.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "15") mask="255.254.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "16") mask="255.255.0.0"
else if (s[2] == "17") mask="255.255.128.0"
else if (s[2] == "18") mask="255.255.192.0"
else if (s[2] == "19") mask="255.255.224.0"
else if (s[2] == "20") mask="255.255.240.0"
else if (s[2] == "21") mask="255.255.248.0"
else if (s[2] == "22") mask="255.255.252.0"
else if (s[2] == "23") mask="255.255.254.0"
else if (s[2] == "24") mask="255.255.255.0"
else if (s[2] == "25") mask="255.255.255.128"
else if (s[2] == "26") mask="255.255.255.192"
else if (s[2] == "27") mask="255.255.255.224"
else if (s[2] == "28") mask="255.255.255.240"
else if (s[2] == "29") mask="255.255.255.248"
else if (s[2] == "30") mask="255.255.255.252"
else if (s[2] == "31") mask="255.255.255.254"
else mask="255.255.255.255"
if ($5 == "YOUR_ROUTER_EXTERNAL_ADDRESS")
printf ""
else if (s[2] == "")
printf "ip route add dst-address=%s.%s.%s.%s
gateway=ipip-ampr-%s\r\n",n[1],n[2],n[3],n[4],$5
else
printf "ip route add dst-address=%s.%s.%s.%s/%s
gateway=ipip-ampr-%s\r\n",n[1],n[2],n[3],n[4],s[2],$5
}'
awk '!x[$0]++' /root/encap/router.raw.txt > /root/encap/router.txt
****************************************************************************
*************************
Router Script file :-
/ip address remove [/ip address find where interface~"ipip-ampr-"] ;
;delay 3s ;
/ip address remove [/ip address find where interface~"unknown"] ;
;delay 3s ;
/ip route remove [/ip route find where gateway~"ipip-ampr-"] ;
;delay 3s ;
/interface ipip remove [/interface ipip find where name~"ipip-ampr-"] ;
;delay 3s ;
/ip route remove [/ip route find where gateway~"unknown"] ;
;delay 3s ;
/import encap.rsc
Best Regards,
Hugh Golding
TEQ Systems Limited
T +44 7841 749345
+ hugh(a)teqsys.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: 44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
[mailto:44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Hugh
Golding
Sent: 23 August 2013 09:31
To: 'AMPRNet working group'
Subject: Re: [44net] Something simple
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
I have a simpler mikrotik script working. It isn't pretty but it updates the
router every day.
If your interested I can explain it.
My linux box downloads encap.txt from ftp site and processes it every night.
It then uploads a txt file with the commands in it to the router by ftp.
A simple script on the mickrotik the runs the commands within.
It works but isn't technical.
Best Regards,
Hugh Golding
TEQ Systems Limited
T +44 7841 749345
+ hugh(a)teqsys.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: 44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
[mailto:44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of YT9TP
Pedja
Sent: 23 August 2013 09:20
To: AMPRNet working group
Subject: Re: [44net] Something simple
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 23.8.2013 0:55, Tom Hayward wrote:
What encap file did you test with? I thought Mikrotik
had a 4KB limit
for reading text files.
I used encap.txt trimmed to just few lines to easy debugging.
I did not realize there is such a limit. DOH! That makes my script unusable.
Well, at least I tried and I got proof of concept :)
Now, I will have to use another approach.
Pedja
YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
9:52 a.m.
On 23.8.2013 10:31, Hugh Golding wrote:
I have a simpler mikrotik script working. It isn't
pretty but it updates the
router every day.
If your interested I can explain it.
My linux box downloads encap.txt from ftp site and processes it every night.
It then uploads a txt file with the commands in it to the router by ftp.
A simple script on the mickrotik the runs the commands within.
It works but isn't technical.
My idea is to use PHP script which can be easily put on any web server.
Script will just produce Mikrotik script which could be downloaded by
Mikrotik and then executed.
That way, specific set Linux box will not be needed at all, and
moreover, the same script will run on any Mikrotik so anyone who uses
Mikrotik and wants to get connected in AMPRnet will be able to do so easily.
Pedja
YT9TP
9:55 a.m.
If there is no linux server avail I can happily upload the command txt file
to anyones mikrotik if I have an ftp login.
You need only run the mikrotik script then.
Best Regards,
Hugh Golding
TEQ Systems Limited
T +44 7841 749345
+ hugh(a)teqsys.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: 44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
[mailto:44net-bounces+hugh=teqsys.net@hamradio.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of YT9TP
Pedja
Sent: 23 August 2013 09:53
To: AMPRNet working group
Subject: Re: [44net] Something simple
(Please trim inclusions from previous messages)
_______________________________________________
On 23.8.2013 10:31, Hugh Golding wrote:
I have a simpler mikrotik script working. It isn't
pretty but it
updates the router every day.
If your interested I can explain it.
My linux box downloads encap.txt from ftp site and processes it every
night.
It then uploads a txt file with the commands in it to
the router by ftp.
A simple script on the mickrotik the runs the commands within.
It works but isn't technical.
My idea is to use PHP script which can be easily put on any web server.
Script will just produce Mikrotik script which could be downloaded by
Mikrotik and then executed.
That way, specific set Linux box will not be needed at all, and moreover,
the same script will run on any Mikrotik so anyone who uses Mikrotik and
wants to get connected in AMPRnet will be able to do so easily.
Pedja
YT9TP
_________________________________________
44Net mailing list
44Net(a)hamradio.ucsd.edu
http://hamradio.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/44net
http://www.ampr.org/donate.html
3 Sep
3 Sep
6:40 p.m.
I've been busy so another attempt to solve a problem had to wait a bit.
But here it is.
I've set up PHP script that loads encap.txt, parses it and then can
generate encap data in various formats. For testing two formats are
available:
simple: contains coma delimited network and gateway. This reduces file
size significantly
Example: http://www.uzice.net/ampr/encap/?format=simple
mikrotik45: contains Mikrotik version 4.5 script that sets IPIP
interfaces and routes. Mikrotik version is specified as I developed
script on RouterBoard with that version and I am not sure if it will run
on newer versions.
http://www.uzice.net/ampr/encap/?format=mikrotik45
It is easy to add other formats as needed.
Idea is to have cashing for generated data, so it is not created on each
user call, but only when there are changes. As generated data is not
user specific (the same file works for all users), cashe should be
refreshed only if encap.txt changes. That would keep server resource
usage at minimum.
Users could be instructed to download generated files directly so they
would not even run script. Script should run via cron, then.
...
For Mikrotik, generated script is universal, meaning, the same script
can be run on any Mikrotik and it will set up what is needed.
As there is some customization needed, this script should not be
executed directly but via other Mikrotik script that is set up locally
on Mikrotik router. That script should set custom parameters and then
download and execute encap script.
Here is an example of local script:
{
#######################################
#
# AMPRNet Route Loader for Mikrotik 5.4
# version 0.0.2
#
#
# by YT9TP, Pedja, http://yt9tp.iz.rs
#
#######################################
# PARAMETERS
#######################################
# download url for enc.txt file
:local downloadURL "http://www.uzice.net/ampr/encap/index-mikrotik54.php";
# local public IP address of AMPR gateway
:global localAddr "192.168.1.1" ;
# custom contents fora a comment on created IPIP tunnel interface
:global ipipComment "";
# custom parameters to add to /interface add command
:global ipipCustomParams "";
# custom contents fora a comment on created route
:global routeComment "";
# custom parameters to add to /ip route add command
:global routeCustomParams "routing-mark=amprs";
# identificator to be added to comments or names which is used to
identify settings added by this script (to be auto deleted when needed)
:global scriptIdentificator "amprs-d";
########################################
########################################
# DO NOT EDIT BELOW THIS LINE !!!
########################################
:put ("\n\rAMPRNet route loader \n\r");
# download cmd file
:put ("\n\rDownloading file " . $downloadURL . "\n\r");
/tool fetch url=$downloadURL dst-path=amprnet.rsc mode=http
:delay 5 ;
/import file-name=amprnet.rsc
}
There are some limitations. As encap contains lot of information,
genereted script end up pretty large. Mikrotik router has to have enough
free space to save downloaded file before execution. I guess PC with
large hard disk or RouterBoard with additional memory card is required.
I have everything packed in one ZIP file for those who would like to
check it out or try on their own:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12258621/hamradio/amprnet/simplified-en…
Pedja
YT9TP
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