You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

...

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0 needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1 ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64 kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70 pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71 pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72 pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73 k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80 n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82 ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84 n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

Charles, Ludovic, please read the reply again.

The issue is that the allocation 44.18.0.0/16 managed by Geoff can not be added to the portal because they are older than the portal and thus are invisible to you. That does not mean that the allocation is nonexistent, nor that the DNS entries are not used and should be deleted.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 06:57, Charles Hargrove via 44net wrote:

You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

...

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

...

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0    needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1    ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64    kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70    pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71    pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72    pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73    k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80    n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82    ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84    n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

---

44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org

Ludovic,

You don’t like to waste time but yet you waste others’ time by deleting entries that should not have been deleted? The original question was to delete if not in use anymore, but no one said they were not used anymore? Geoff ke6qh is the coordinator for the block and is on the list and clearly responding to this thread. It was his responsibility to delete the dns entries if not in use anymore and he would have done so if they were not in use anymore.

Maybe it’s the language barrier, but I think you misread/misinterpreted the replies by Marius and Geoff.

73

Ruben ON3RVH

From: f5pbg--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 10:16 To: Charles Hargrove ch9179910356@gmail.com; Doug via 44Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Allocations vs DNS Records

Hello,

please read my reply again... you didn't understand anything. I don't like wasting time so...

all the entries was deleted. it will take effect in less than an hour (check with the command nslookup on windows/cmd)

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 08:16, Marius Petrescu via 44net a écrit : Charles, Ludovic, please read the reply again.

The issue is that the allocation 44.18.0.0/16 managed by Geoff can not be added to the portal because they are older than the portal and thus are invisible to you. That does not mean that the allocation is nonexistent, nor that the DNS entries are not used and should be deleted.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 06:57, Charles Hargrove via 44net wrote:

You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0 needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1 ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64 kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70 pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71 pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72 pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73 k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80 n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82 ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84 n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.orgmailto:n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noammailto:n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

An IP owner asks to delete his IP. We can all help. We are all in the same boat.

An co-administrator indicated that he could not delete the IPs because it was before the creation of the portal. It's wrong, that's all.

I just showed that it was possible.The dns have been recreated of course in less than 1 minute...

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 10:58, Geoff Joy -KE6QH- a écrit :

All, I am so angry my chest hurts.

WHO the hell is F5PBG that he PREUMES to interfere with the domain assignments of another coordinator?

When I made those assignments the ONLY mechanism for registering them was via the DNS assignments.

I demand those entries be restored immediately! If there was a problem with those entries they were my responsibility to amend them and NO ONE ELSE!

F6PBG: NOBODY ASKED YOU TO DO ANTHING AND YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO TAKE ANY ACTION WHATSOEVER!

This is blatant deliberate corruption of the DNS database.

Why are those entries even of concern? Why would anyone in France or New York have any business questioning the coordinations in California?

This demonstrates a HUGE FLAW in the DNS and portal systems. They cannot be trusted to be authoritative if a coordinator can meddle in the regions administered by another coordinator.

F5PBG needs to be fired and his access revoked for this intrusion.

What the ever loving F!

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 10:15:46 +0100, f5pbg--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

...

Hello,

please read my reply again... you didn't understand anything. I don't like wasting time so...

all the entries was deleted. it will take effect in less than an hour (check with the command nslookup on windows/cmd)

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 08:16, Marius Petrescu via 44net a écrit :

...

Charles, Ludovic, please read the reply again.

The issue is that the allocation 44.18.0.0/16 managed by Geoff can not be added to the portal because they are older than the portal and thus are invisible to you. That does not mean that the allocation is nonexistent, nor that the DNS entries are not used and should be deleted.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 06:57, Charles Hargrove via 44net wrote:

...

You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

...

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

...

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

?To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0    needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1    ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64    kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70    pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71    pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72    pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73    k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80    n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82    ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84    n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

-- Geoff Joy - ke6qh - AmprNet IP Address Coordinator for San Bernardino & Riverside Counties. (44.18/16)

No he did not.

He told you that the allocation is valid, managed by him, but not visible in the portal because it was allocated before the portal creation. He never said he didn't use those IPs and DNS entries, and never stated he wants to delete them.

We are NOT in the same boat. We are many boats in a fleet and every coordinator needs to rock only his own.

On 21/12/2022 12:23, f5pbg--- via 44net wrote:

An IP owner asks to delete his IP. We can all help. We are all in the same boat.

An co-administrator indicated that he could not delete the IPs because it was before the creation of the portal. It's wrong, that's all.

I just showed that it was possible.The dns have been recreated of course in less than 1 minute...

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 10:58, Geoff Joy -KE6QH- a écrit :

...

All, I am so angry my chest hurts.

WHO the hell is F5PBG that he PREUMES to interfere with the domain assignments of another coordinator?

When I made those assignments the ONLY mechanism for registering them was via the DNS assignments.

I demand those entries be restored immediately! If there was a problem with those entries they were my responsibility to amend them and NO ONE ELSE!

F6PBG: NOBODY ASKED YOU TO DO ANTHING AND YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO TAKE ANY ACTION WHATSOEVER!

This is blatant deliberate corruption of the DNS database.

Why are those entries even of concern? Why would anyone in France or New York have any business questioning the coordinations in California?

This demonstrates a HUGE FLAW in the DNS and portal systems. They cannot be trusted to be authoritative if a coordinator can meddle in the regions administered by another coordinator.

F5PBG needs to be fired and his access revoked for this intrusion.

What the ever loving F!

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 10:15:46 +0100, f5pbg--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

...

Hello,

please read my reply again... you didn't understand anything. I don't like wasting time so...

all the entries was deleted. it will take effect in less than an hour (check with the command nslookup on windows/cmd)

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 08:16, Marius Petrescu via 44net a écrit :

...

Charles, Ludovic, please read the reply again.

The issue is that the allocation 44.18.0.0/16 managed by Geoff can not be added to the portal because they are older than the portal and thus are invisible to you. That does not mean that the allocation is nonexistent, nor that the DNS entries are not used and should be deleted.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 06:57, Charles Hargrove via 44net wrote:

...

You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

...

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

> On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net > 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote: > > ?To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean > out the > DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists? > > There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. > I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed. > > 44.18.48.0    needles.ampr.org needles > 44.18.48.1    ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs > 44.18.48.64    kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk > 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.70    pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.71    pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.72    pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk > 44.18.48.73    k6krz.ampr.org k6krz > 44.18.48.80    n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz > 44.18.48.82    ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt > 44.18.48.84    n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm > 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles > > -- > 73 de N2NOV > n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org > n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam >

-- Geoff Joy - ke6qh - AmprNet IP Address Coordinator for San Bernardino & Riverside Counties. (44.18/16)

---

44net mailing list --44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org

All,

When you corrupt the DNS as you did here, you create the potential for severe damage or loss of life. I have assigned several subnets to San Bernardino RACES and other emergency response groups who potentially rely on DNS to function and you can take those networks down in one ignorant action.

This concerns me greatly.

ARDC licence their IP address space "exclusively for the purpose of Amateur Radio communications and experimentation”. If anyone (coordinator or otherwise) chooses to allow the address space to be used for any other purpose, they cannot provide any SLA, or other assurances of any sort on behalf of ARDC.

The ARDC address space is not designed for use in any circumstances where a person’s life is in any way reliant upon it (or any ancillary services, such as DNS) being available at any time.

The terms of use specify: "All address(es) licensed to You remain the sole and exclusive property of ARDC. You do not obtain any rights, title, or interest in the address(es) nor in the AMPRNet.”

and also: “Licenses may be rescinded or suspended by ARDC at any time and for any reason.”

It is imperative that everyone using ARDC address space bears all of this in mind, and if you allow anyone else to use the address space they must also be made aware of the terms.

Thank you.

73, Chris - G1FEF

On 21 Dec 2022, at 20:09, Dan Cross via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 2:48 PM Chris Smith via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

...

...

When you corrupt the DNS as you did here, you create the potential for severe damage or loss of life. I have assigned several subnets to San Bernardino RACES and other emergency response groups who potentially rely on DNS to function and you can take those networks down in one ignorant action.

This concerns me greatly.

ARDC licence their IP address space "exclusively for the purpose of Amateur Radio communications and experimentation”. If anyone (coordinator or otherwise) chooses to allow the address space to be used for any other purpose, they cannot provide any SLA, or other assurances of any sort on behalf of ARDC.

Chris,

For what it's worth, I interpreted the original statement to mean other amateur-radio emergency response groups. Indeed, as emcomm is one of the major use cases for amateur radio, this seems entirely consistent with use of the ARDC IP space.

...

The ARDC address space is not designed for use in any circumstances where a person’s life is in any way reliant upon it (or any ancillary services, such as DNS) being available at any time.

It could be argued that supporting emergency communications is a major part of the amateur radio endeavor; this interpretation seems inconsistent with the "purpose of Amateur Radio communications" part of the ARDC agreement. If this is indeed the case, it may make sense to call it out explicitly, in writing, in the licensing information.

Actually it does: "ARDC cannot be held responsible for interruptions in service or failures of any network infrastructure, nor for the content of communications received or sent. You acknowledge the experimental nature of the AMPRNet and of ham radio in general. As a consequence, You agree that ARDC owes You no duty to ensure the dependability of the AMPRNet for life, safety, or other important communications.”

The entire terms can be read here: https://www.ampr.org/about/legal/terms-of-service/

...

The terms of use specify: "All address(es) licensed to You remain the sole and exclusive property of ARDC. You do not obtain any rights, title, or interest in the address(es) nor in the AMPRNet.”

and also: “Licenses may be rescinded or suspended by ARDC at any time and for any reason.”

That's fair, but it's also qualitatively different than someone doing so due to a miscommunication; in that respect, this seems a bit tangential. It would be very odd indeed of ARDC revoked a block of address space used by an amateur radio emergency support organization for no reason other than that it could.

I’m not saying that it WOULD happen intentionally, only that is COULD happen, and therefore ARDC addresses cannot be guaranteed. My point is that, together with the context of the first extract above, nobody should be using ARDC address space in such a manner that anyone’s life is dependant upon them. This point is particularly relevant where address space that isn’t even registered in the portal is being used for emergency communications.

73, Chris - G1FEF

   - Dan C. (KZ2X)

---

44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org

Chris is totally right in saying that 44net is NOT intended for life supporting situation as ham radio cannot also be the sole method to support a life threatening situation.

Yes 44net CAN be use for emcom, but it should not be considered as the only mean of communication support for it.

It is the exact same limitation that any ISP will give you if you use a residential internet connection to support a 911 call center.

The device used in a 911 call center may look as the one you have at home. But it is not and there is redundancy and such other technical mean to make sure no life threatening situation is affected by the ISP drop and the cost is a lot different.

So don't expect ARDC to support life support use of the 44net ip space as it is NOT the level of use it is designed to uphold

Pierre VE2PF

________________________________ De : Dan Cross via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : mercredi 21 décembre 2022, 5 h 30 p.m. À : Chris Smith chris@ardc.net Cc : AMPRNet working group 44net@mailman.ampr.org Objet : [44net] Re: Allocations vs DNS Records

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 5:13 PM Chris Smith via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

[snip] I’m not saying that it WOULD happen intentionally, only that is COULD happen, and therefore ARDC addresses cannot be guaranteed. My point is that, together with the context of the first extract above, nobody should be using ARDC address space in such a manner that anyone’s life is dependant upon them. This point is particularly relevant where address space that isn’t even registered in the portal is being used for emergency communications.

I see. So just to clarify, you are saying that it is ARDC's official position that emcomm is not an appropriate use of the 44net address space?

- Dan C. (KZ2X) _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org

Dan Cross wrote:

I see. So just to clarify, you are saying that it is ARDC's official position that emcomm is not an appropriate use of the 44net address space?

ARDC has not created an official policy with respect to use of 44net address space for emergency communications, either for or against. But let's take a few sanity checks here:

1. ARDC's offices are closed until 3 January, and any discussion here is separate from 'official' pronouncements. Official positions will be documented on ARDC's official website(s). 2. Nobody has been granted a service level agreement (SLA) for 44net address space. In part, because the network is not provisioned by ARDC (e.g. ARDC is not building the physical network, which is largely constructed by individuals and groups.) Unless an entity (ARDC) is provisioning the physical network from end to end (to end) it is impossible to provide a SLA. ARDC manages the allocation of address space, and users implement the network. 3. ARDC recently took a survey concerning 44net, which will be published after the first of the year. One of the topics was the level of service people expect, from purely experimental to mission critical, and the report will outline the responses. 4. ARDC has funded millions of dollars in grants, some of those grants were to groups who participate in emergency communications. 5. ARDC has recently hired a Technical Director, who along with the Technical Advisory Committee, is responsible for understanding what needs to be done to support 44net and at what level. 6. 44net address space is a resource. Emergency Communications groups can obtain address space for non-commercial and amateur radio use free of charge. However, since ARDC is responsible for 44net address space usage, under several legal requirements, and for technical cohesion certain procedures must be implemented and enforced to assure proper use.

Suggestions and recommendations from users are welcome, but setting policy takes studied review and time to implement. Please don't expect those policies to be an immediate response. Also, please do not put words into others' mouths.

-- John K7VE

I second this. DNS records should only be possible to be changed by the coordinator responsible for the block, or the general coordinator, which would be Chris. Feature request for the new portal ? :)

73

Ruben ON3RVH

-----Original Message----- From: Marius Petrescu via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 11:36 To: Geoff Joy -KE6QH- ke6qh.2021@gmail.com; AMPRNet working group 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Allocations vs DNS Records

Anyone else feels the need to bring this up to the TAC?

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 11:58, Geoff Joy -KE6QH- via 44net wrote:

All, I am so angry my chest hurts.

WHO the hell is F5PBG that he PREUMES to interfere with the domain assignments of another coordinator?

When I made those assignments the ONLY mechanism for registering them was via the DNS assignments.

I demand those entries be restored immediately! If there was a problem with those entries they were my responsibility to amend them and NO ONE ELSE!

F6PBG: NOBODY ASKED YOU TO DO ANTHING AND YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO TAKE ANY ACTION WHATSOEVER!

This is blatant deliberate corruption of the DNS database.

Why are those entries even of concern? Why would anyone in France or New York have any business questioning the coordinations in California?

This demonstrates a HUGE FLAW in the DNS and portal systems. They cannot be trusted to be authoritative if a coordinator can meddle in the regions administered by another coordinator.

F5PBG needs to be fired and his access revoked for this intrusion.

What the ever loving F!

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 10:15:46 +0100, f5pbg--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

...

Hello,

please read my reply again... you didn't understand anything. I don't like wasting time so...

all the entries was deleted. it will take effect in less than an hour (check with the command nslookup on windows/cmd)

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 08:16, Marius Petrescu via 44net a écrit :

...

Charles, Ludovic, please read the reply again.

The issue is that the allocation 44.18.0.0/16 managed by Geoff can not be added to the portal because they are older than the portal and thus are invisible to you. That does not mean that the allocation is nonexistent, nor that the DNS entries are not used and should be deleted.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 06:57, Charles Hargrove via 44net wrote:

...

You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

...

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

...

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

?To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0    needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1    ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64    kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70    pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71    pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72    pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73    k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80    n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82    ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84    n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

-- Geoff Joy - ke6qh - AmprNet IP Address Coordinator for San Bernardino & Riverside Counties. (44.18/16) _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org

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Oh, but I do understand exactly. You just deleted entries that are out of your "jurisdiction" and belonging to an coordinator that is active and available via this list because you did not understand his reply, assuming "he don't know how".

I think you should really stick to your own allocations when doing this and ask the proper coordinators to do it to prevent any misunderstanding.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 11:15, f5pbg--- via 44net wrote:

Hello,

please read my reply again... you didn't understand anything. I don't like wasting time so...

all the entries was deleted. it will take effect in less than an hour (check with the command nslookup on windows/cmd)

Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG

Le 21/12/2022 à 08:16, Marius Petrescu via 44net a écrit :

...

Charles, Ludovic, please read the reply again.

The issue is that the allocation 44.18.0.0/16 managed by Geoff can not be added to the portal because they are older than the portal and thus are invisible to you. That does not mean that the allocation is nonexistent, nor that the DNS entries are not used and should be deleted.

Marius, YO2LOJ

On 21/12/2022 06:57, Charles Hargrove via 44net wrote:

...

You could submit delete entries to the Gateways robot to clean up the DNS.

On 12/20/2022 11:10 PM, Geoff Joy via 44net wrote:

...

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

...

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0    needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1    ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64    kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70    pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71    pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72    pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73    k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80    n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82    ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84    n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

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Hey Chris,

I would urge you to get in touch and work with me to correct this. The bottom line is - if it’s not in the portal database, it’s free for assignment elsewhere.

This is not the case. I also have examples in my 44.4.0.0/16 subnet of active user allocations that existed before the portal was created. I have been reaching out to those users who have DNS entries but don't have portal entries to clarify the situation and try to get them to request to make a portal request for their previous allocation. This can be very difficult at time as people don't have email addresses in qrz.com or finding an email address via the Internet.

Putting it another way, I consider an IP/subnet to be either "in use" or "under review" if there is a DNS entry but nothing in the AMPR portal.

--David KI6ZHD

I was not aware of this omission, please do get in touch to discuss - there may not be an easy way to import your assignments directly on the portal, but I’m sure we can work out a way to import them into the database behind the scenes, even if all you have is a spreadsheet.

73, Chris - G1FEF

...

On 21 Dec 2022, at 04:10, Geoff Joy via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

Charles, I am coordinating the 44.18.0.0/16 area. There are no assignments evident in that area because they pre-date the AMPR portal and the database. There is no way to insert them into the database in the present implementation. It takes another complete cycle of request and reassignment to make that happen.

Regards, Geoff Joy -ke6qh-

...

On Dec 20, 2022, at 19:48, Charles Hargrove via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:

To the AMPRnet database chief admins, is there a way to clean out the DNS database of entries if the allocation no longer exists?

There is no allocation for 44.18.48.0/24 yet there are DNS records. I am sure there are many others if the database is scrubbed.

44.18.48.0 needles.ampr.org needles 44.18.48.1 ke6bbs.ampr.org ke6bbs 44.18.48.64 kd6hpk.ampr.org kd6hpk 44.18.48.65 budge.kd6hpk.ampr.org budge.kd6hpk 44.18.48.66 xerox.kd6hpk.ampr.org xerox.kd6hpk 44.18.48.67 ralph.kd6hpk.ampr.org ralph.kd6hpk 44.18.48.68 jean.kd6hpk.ampr.org jean.kd6hpk 44.18.48.69 ibmxt.kd6hpk.ampr.org ibmxt.kd6hpk 44.18.48.70 pc6.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc6.kd6hpk 44.18.48.71 pc7.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc7.kd6hpk 44.18.48.72 pc8.kd6hpk.ampr.org pc8.kd6hpk 44.18.48.73 k6krz.ampr.org k6krz 44.18.48.80 n6nxz.ampr.org n6nxz 44.18.48.82 ke6amt.ampr.org ke6amt 44.18.48.84 n6vbm.ampr.org n6vbm 44.18.48.255 bc.needles.ampr.org bc.needles

-- 73 de N2NOV n2nov@n2nov.ampr.org n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam

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The new portal sounds good.  I know any DNS entries in my 44.136/24 allocation are out of date, and carry over from the previous holder of that allocation.  Having control of my DNS would allow me to make appropriate updates.

On 22/12/22 6:34 am, Chris Smith via 44net wrote:

Hi David,

...

Hey Chris,

...

I would urge you to get in touch and work with me to correct this. The bottom line is - if it’s not in the portal database, it’s free for assignment elsewhere.

This is not the case.  I also have examples in my 44.4.0.0/16 subnet of active user allocations that existed before the portal was created.  I have been reaching out to those users who have DNS entries but don't have portal entries to clarify the situation and try to get them to request to make a portal request for their previous allocation.  This can be very difficult at time as people don't have email addresses in qrz.com http://qrz.com/ or finding an email address via the Internet.

Putting it another way, I consider an IP/subnet to be either "in use" or "under review" if there is a DNS entry but nothing in the AMPR portal.

It is most certainly the case that there are many entries in DNS that do not have corresponding entries in the portal. However, the whole point of the portal was to have a way to manage the assignments. One of Brian Kantor’s main problems was not knowing when someone no longer required an assignment - if they lose interest, they tend not to bother letting anyone know and if the worst happens and they go SK then they clearly can’t let us know.

Brian’s decision was to have a cut off date of a year after the portal came online - if the end user hadn’t got in touch to claim their entry by then, the entry was considered not required. This 12 month period has long since expired (by over 8 years!) so if there is anyone that hasn’t claimed their assignment after over 8 years it is highly unlikely they will do so now, and if they do then they can always have it re-assigned.

Incidentally this is the reason behind the portal removing accounts (and assignments) after 12 months of not seeing the user logging in.

For anyone that is interested - the portal did originally have DNS management built in (actually it still does, it’s just disabled). Unfortunately there was no easy way of matching up DNS entries with accounts on the portal. Brian was still working on the best way to import and match the data when he left us.

The new portal will have DNS management live from the start (end users will be able to manage their own entries), building on Brian’s work we’ve figured out how to match up the majority of the wanted DNS entries, but when the new portal does eventually go live, there will be a window of opportunity (probably 12 months) during which folk will be able to claim their entries, after which they will be disabled (removed from the zonefile), at that point if anyone complains things have stopped working their entries can be re-enabled and assigned to their account. After a further period (probably another 12 months) the disabled entries will be removed.

We have literally thousands of DNS entries, my best guess is over 60% of them are redundant, it really does need cleaning up!

So I re-iterate my request to get in touch if anyone knows of any ARDC address space that is being used that is not registered on the portal. I am more than happy to work with anyone that needs to import assignments into the portal without having to go through the formal request/approve process.

73, Chris - G1FEF

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In 2014 and 2016 I tried to contact all the users that had previously requested addresses, and asked them if they wanted to keep them.  Most addresses in the list at that time were assigned in the days of IP over packet radio, from about 1987 to the early 2000's, and likely not many were still in use.  So I did a big cleanup at that time. You are right: it is a lot of work.  I retrieved mail addresses from the archived request mails as far as still available, mailed to call@amsat.org, call@veron.nl, call@vrza.nl and still I did not get reply from many of them.  Those were mostly deleted. In the past it was possible to download a list of valid callsigns from our radio authority, and I used to download it weekly and check which callsigns were de-registered and had IP assignments, which I then deleted.  But "for privacy reasons" this is no longer available and it has become more difficult again to keep the list clean.

Another frequent issue is that hams get help from someone else in setting up the station, they together perform tasks like requesting an address and configuring it in the equipment, but the main operator himself has no clue how it is working.  When they later receive a mail from me with a request to perform some change, even something like a new OpenVPN certificate because we switched to a new server, I get no reply or an indication that they have to ask someone else and that it may take some time.  A task like replace a .ovpn file by another may take several months to implement. That will probably be a hurdle too when cleanup operations via something like the new portal are being performed.

Rob

On 12/21/22 21:41, Neil Johnson via 44net wrote:

About seven years ago I wrote some python scripts for Brian that took the full ampr.org DNS zone file and:

• Pulled out all the call signs.
• Checked if the IP address related to the call signs had an entry in the portal database.
• For those call signs that weren't in the portal database, I attempted to see if the call sign was still active by checking QRZ.com or the latest (at that time) Radio Amateur Call book ("The flying horse") database.

The goal was to try to find an e-mail address and contact the amateur operator to see if they still needed the allocation.

At the time over 35% of the callsigns (~14K) were not found in either database.

There were many entries that did not have e-mail addresses (mostly ones from Europe that were redacted due to privacy laws).

Brian decided that with so many unknowns it wasn't worth proceeding.

-Neil N0SFH