Hello!
I just took a look at my verifications, and I noticed that they all have an expiration date. What happens when the verifications expire? What happens if my level of trust drops to 0 when all verifications expire?
73, Cara
What is your call sign please? That is the only way we can look something up.
— Dave K9DC, K9IP
On May 15, 2024, at 09:40, Cara Salter via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Hello!
I just took a look at my verifications, and I noticed that they all have an expiration date. What happens when the verifications expire? What happens if my level of trust drops to 0 when all verifications expire?
73, Cara
On 2024-05-15 17:05, Cara Salter via 44net wrote:
On 5/15/24 10:03, Dave Gingrich via 44net wrote:
What is your call sign please? That is the only way we can look something up.
Callsign is KC1KZT, but isn't this a general question about how levels of trust expire and what happens after?
73, Cara KC1KZT _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
That's what I wanted to ask me too.
I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and I'm totaling 45 points.
From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they were initially verified.
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote:
I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and I'm totaling 45 points.
From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they were initially verified.
Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
(Prior to this, it was officially under an apparatus-license scheme, but was effectively policed like a class-license.)
This means that over time, call-signs will disappear from the ACMA database. They also haven't issued paper licenses in some 8 years or so. I managed to fish out what will possibly be my last ACMA-issued license prior to the class license taking effect earlier this year.
There's debate as to whether the ACMA should continue to keep that information, or whether another body (e.g. the WIA) manage that.
So procedures in this space will likely need to be amended over the coming months.
Regards,
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote:
I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and I'm totaling 45 points.
From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they were initially verified.
Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
(Prior to this, it was officially under an apparatus-license scheme, but was effectively policed like a class-license.)
This means that over time, call-signs will disappear from the ACMA database. They also haven't issued paper licenses in some 8 years or so. I managed to fish out what will possibly be my last ACMA-issued license prior to the class license taking effect earlier this year.
There's debate as to whether the ACMA should continue to keep that information, or whether another body (e.g. the WIA) manage that.
So procedures in this space will likely need to be amended over the coming months.
Regards,
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)
I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Here in the Netherlands, the official authority still manages the callsigns, although we do not have a "license" anymore, only a "registration". The amateur bands have been put in the license-free category with the exception that you need to register a callsign to use those bands, and with the note that to register a callsign you first need to pass an exam. Sounds similar in result, but judicially it is completely different. The exams have already been outsourced, it could happen with the registrations as well.
Also, under the European privacy rulings, access to registered callsign information is very limited. There is no way at all to obtain holder information for a callsign, the only thing you can verify is if a given callsign is currently "in use", or has been used in the past and is thus not available for allocation. This is done via a webpage that has a low limit on usage. There is no way anymore to download a list of all issued callsigns and their status. I used that to compare the list of callsigns with the IP address registrations I managed, and remove addresses for callsigns that are no longer valid. Cannot do that anymore. Before, someone ran a weekly job to try all possible callsigns on that webpage and compiled a list, but this was detected and now it cannot be done anymore due to the rate limiting.
Anyway, it is quite easy to fake the status of one's license holdings. I think that it is even more difficult for a random outsider (someone handling tickets) than it was for me personally, as of course when I got a request that seemed a bit fishy I had lots of ways to see what was going on. E.g. I have seen two cases where people claimed to have a license and requested a BGP-routed /24, but from some research it turned out they or their son was running a small webhosting company. I think that will be more difficult do find that kind of problems because local coordinators are not involved anymore.
Rob
On 2024-05-16 06:38, Peter Hannay via 44net wrote:
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote: > I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and > I'm totaling 45 points. > > From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they > were initially verified. Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
Hi, in the UK, licences and callsigns are still issued by Ofcom. It is predominantly an online process with a PDF "validation document". It is a shared system with maritime and other similar licences.
Other callsigns, including beacons, repeaters and data stations over 5W ERP are issued by the RSGB ETCC and are listed on uprepeater.net. There are a few MB9xxx callsigns managed by Raynet (Radio Amateur's emergency Network) for temporary repeaters. That may end up also covering >5W ERP temporary data stations.
One potential issue is that in the next year or so it will be possible to change one's callsign once every 5 years and vacated callsigns will, after a 5 year 'cooling off period', be returned to the pool.
Callsigns beginning with a 2 are to be phased out in favour of M8 and M9 callsigns. Holders of the '2' series callsigns will be able to change to their equivalent M callsign e.g. 2E0ABC will become M8ABC and 2E1ABC will become M9ABC. This will be voluntary and eventually the M8 and M9 callsign reservations will expire.
Just to muddy the waters there are the (now optional) regional secondary locators so I can be GE7SAI in England, GW7SAI in Wales and GM7SAI in Scotland (there are others).
HTH
73 de Ellis G7SAI
On Thu, 16 May 2024 at 08:33, Rob PE1CHL via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Here in the Netherlands, the official authority still manages the callsigns, although we do not have a "license" anymore, only a "registration". The amateur bands have been put in the license-free category with the exception that you need to register a callsign to use those bands, and with the note that to register a callsign you first need to pass an exam. Sounds similar in result, but judicially it is completely different. The exams have already been outsourced, it could happen with the registrations as well.
Also, under the European privacy rulings, access to registered callsign information is very limited. There is no way at all to obtain holder information for a callsign, the only thing you can verify is if a given callsign is currently "in use", or has been used in the past and is thus not available for allocation. This is done via a webpage that has a low limit on usage. There is no way anymore to download a list of all issued callsigns and their status. I used that to compare the list of callsigns with the IP address registrations I managed, and remove addresses for callsigns that are no longer valid. Cannot do that anymore. Before, someone ran a weekly job to try all possible callsigns on that webpage and compiled a list, but this was detected and now it cannot be done anymore due to the rate limiting.
Anyway, it is quite easy to fake the status of one's license holdings. I think that it is even more difficult for a random outsider (someone handling tickets) than it was for me personally, as of course when I got a request that seemed a bit fishy I had lots of ways to see what was going on. E.g. I have seen two cases where people claimed to have a license and requested a BGP-routed /24, but from some research it turned out they or their son was running a small webhosting company. I think that will be more difficult do find that kind of problems because local coordinators are not involved anymore.
Rob
On 2024-05-16 06:38, Peter Hannay via 44net wrote:
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call
signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs <
https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs%3E
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign
anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have
a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, <
44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote: > I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile,Address) and
> I'm totaling 45 points. > > From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year afterthey
> were initially verified. Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get moredifficult
for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radiorecently
moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein theACMA
no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Just to elaborate on an important point:
In the UK, due to data protection laws, there is absolutely no way a third party can validate that a given person holds a given callsign.
In suspect this will also be the case across large parts of Europe.
Tom
On Thu, 16 May 2024 at 09:32, Ellis Birt via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Hi, in the UK, licences and callsigns are still issued by Ofcom. It is predominantly an online process with a PDF "validation document". It is a shared system with maritime and other similar licences.
Other callsigns, including beacons, repeaters and data stations over 5W ERP are issued by the RSGB ETCC and are listed on uprepeater.net. There are a few MB9xxx callsigns managed by Raynet (Radio Amateur's emergency Network) for temporary repeaters. That may end up also covering >5W ERP temporary data stations.
One potential issue is that in the next year or so it will be possible to change one's callsign once every 5 years and vacated callsigns will, after a 5 year 'cooling off period', be returned to the pool.
Callsigns beginning with a 2 are to be phased out in favour of M8 and M9 callsigns. Holders of the '2' series callsigns will be able to change to their equivalent M callsign e.g. 2E0ABC will become M8ABC and 2E1ABC will become M9ABC. This will be voluntary and eventually the M8 and M9 callsign reservations will expire.
Just to muddy the waters there are the (now optional) regional secondary locators so I can be GE7SAI in England, GW7SAI in Wales and GM7SAI in Scotland (there are others).
HTH
73 de Ellis G7SAI
On Thu, 16 May 2024 at 08:33, Rob PE1CHL via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Here in the Netherlands, the official authority still manages the callsigns, although we do not have a "license" anymore, only a "registration". The amateur bands have been put in the license-free category with the exception that you need to register a callsign to use those bands, and with the note that to register a callsign you first need to pass an exam. Sounds similar in result, but judicially it is completely different. The exams have already been outsourced, it could happen with the registrations as well.
Also, under the European privacy rulings, access to registered callsign information is very limited. There is no way at all to obtain holder information for a callsign, the only thing you can verify is if a given callsign is currently "in use", or has been used in the past and is thus not available for allocation. This is done via a webpage that has a low limit on usage. There is no way anymore to download a list of all issued callsigns and their status. I used that to compare the list of callsigns with the IP address registrations I managed, and remove addresses for callsigns that are no longer valid. Cannot do that anymore. Before, someone ran a weekly job to try all possible callsigns on that webpage and compiled a list, but this was detected and now it cannot be done anymore due to the rate limiting.
Anyway, it is quite easy to fake the status of one's license holdings. I think that it is even more difficult for a random outsider (someone handling tickets) than it was for me personally, as of course when I got a request that seemed a bit fishy I had lots of ways to see what was going on. E.g. I have seen two cases where people claimed to have a license and requested a BGP-routed /24, but from some research it turned out they or their son was running a small webhosting company. I think that will be more difficult do find that kind of problems because local coordinators are not involved anymore.
Rob
On 2024-05-16 06:38, Peter Hannay via 44net wrote:
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage
call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs <
https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs%3E
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign
anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have
a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, <
44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote: > I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile,Address) and
> I'm totaling 45 points. > > From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year afterthey
> were initially verified. Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get moredifficult
for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radiorecently
moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein theACMA
no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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It's the same sittuation in Romania too.
Our national authority (ANCOM) has on it's official website a Callbook wich is pretty updated, but in most cases, you will be able to only verify if the Callsign matches with the Name and Surname, due to the GDPR.
On 16 mai 2024 at 20:53, Tom M0LTE via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Just to elaborate on an important point:
In the UK, due to data protection laws, there is absolutely no way a third party can validate that a given person holds a given callsign.
In suspect this will also be the case across large parts of Europe.
Tom
On Thu, 16 May 2024 at 09:32, Ellis Birt via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Hi, in the UK, licences and callsigns are still issued by Ofcom. It is predominantly an online process with a PDF "validation document". It is a shared system with maritime and other similar licences.
Other callsigns, including beacons, repeaters and data stations over 5W ERP are issued by the RSGB ETCC and are listed on uprepeater.net. There are a few MB9xxx callsigns managed by Raynet (Radio Amateur's emergency Network) for temporary repeaters. That may end up also covering >5W ERP temporary data stations.
One potential issue is that in the next year or so it will be possible to change one's callsign once every 5 years and vacated callsigns will, after a 5 year 'cooling off period', be returned to the pool.
Callsigns beginning with a 2 are to be phased out in favour of M8 and M9 callsigns. Holders of the '2' series callsigns will be able to change to their equivalent M callsign e.g. 2E0ABC will become M8ABC and 2E1ABC will become M9ABC. This will be voluntary and eventually the M8 and M9 callsign reservations will expire.
Just to muddy the waters there are the (now optional) regional secondary locators so I can be GE7SAI in England, GW7SAI in Wales and GM7SAI in Scotland (there are others).
HTH
73 de Ellis G7SAI
On Thu, 16 May 2024 at 08:33, Rob PE1CHL via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Here in the Netherlands, the official authority still manages the callsigns, although we do not have a "license" anymore, only a "registration". The amateur bands have been put in the license-free category with the exception that you need to register a callsign to use those bands, and with the note that to register a callsign you first need to pass an exam. Sounds similar in result, but judicially it is completely different. The exams have already been outsourced, it could happen with the registrations as well.
Also, under the European privacy rulings, access to registered callsign information is very limited. There is no way at all to obtain holder information for a callsign, the only thing you can verify is if a given callsign is currently "in use", or has been used in the past and is thus not available for allocation. This is done via a webpage that has a low limit on usage. There is no way anymore to download a list of all issued callsigns and their status. I used that to compare the list of callsigns with the IP address registrations I managed, and remove addresses for callsigns that are no longer valid. Cannot do that anymore. Before, someone ran a weekly job to try all possible callsigns on that webpage and compiled a list, but this was detected and now it cannot be done anymore due to the rate limiting.
Anyway, it is quite easy to fake the status of one's license holdings. I think that it is even more difficult for a random outsider (someone handling tickets) than it was for me personally, as of course when I got a request that seemed a bit fishy I had lots of ways to see what was going on. E.g. I have seen two cases where people claimed to have a license and requested a BGP-routed /24, but from some research it turned out they or their son was running a small webhosting company. I think that will be more difficult do find that kind of problems because local coordinators are not involved anymore.
Rob
On 2024-05-16 06:38, Peter Hannay via 44net wrote:
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote: > I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and > I'm totaling 45 points. > > From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they > were initially verified. Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
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I don’t believe we have had paper licences in the UK for 20 years now. I have an account on the OFCOM, so the “Quasi-Autonomous Government Body” (QUANGO) web site.
This allows me to download a PDF of my licence, which includes my call sign, licence class and both a station address and a postal address.
I checked and the PDF is not secured in any way. So is open to tampering.
I also hold a Spanish Licence, EA7KAE, and for this I have a word document, which again appears to be totally unsecured.
They also supply a printable ID card embedded in the word document.
In both cases the licences do not have an expiry date.
Dave
From: Peter Hannay via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2024 5:39 AM To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Level of Trust Expiration?
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote:
I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and I'm totaling 45 points.
From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they were initially verified.
Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
(Prior to this, it was officially under an apparatus-license scheme, but was effectively policed like a class-license.)
This means that over time, call-signs will disappear from the ACMA database. They also haven't issued paper licenses in some 8 years or so. I managed to fish out what will possibly be my last ACMA-issued license prior to the class license taking effect earlier this year.
There's debate as to whether the ACMA should continue to keep that information, or whether another body (e.g. the WIA) manage that.
So procedures in this space will likely need to be amended over the coming months.
Regards,
From the US, minor point: the PDF from the FCC is not signed, so is easily edited... Which I have done, for comedic effect, only sharing among friends. Ha ha.
the FCC ULS database is the hard reference. A copy is available via xml subscription on qrz.com. so that's what ARDC uses?
The California state department of motor vehicle license issue requires a hard copy, printed. They can not use the online FCC database access. Trying to get an amateur call sign license plate, I ran the issue all the way through the DMV state office, even with my legislator's attention, they are unwilling / unable to budge.
Tldr: it's a mess!
Cliff K6CLS CM87
On May 16, 2024 1:54:11 AM PDT, "dave.g4ugm--- via 44net" 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I don’t believe we have had paper licences in the UK for 20 years now. I have an account on the OFCOM, so the “Quasi-Autonomous Government Body” (QUANGO) web site.
This allows me to download a PDF of my licence, which includes my call sign, licence class and both a station address and a postal address.
I checked and the PDF is not secured in any way. So is open to tampering.
I also hold a Spanish Licence, EA7KAE, and for this I have a word document, which again appears to be totally unsecured.
They also supply a printable ID card embedded in the word document.
In both cases the licences do not have an expiry date.
Dave
From: Peter Hannay via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2024 5:39 AM To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Level of Trust Expiration?
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote:
I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and I'm totaling 45 points.
From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they were initially verified.
Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
(Prior to this, it was officially under an apparatus-license scheme, but was effectively policed like a class-license.)
This means that over time, call-signs will disappear from the ACMA database. They also haven't issued paper licenses in some 8 years or so. I managed to fish out what will possibly be my last ACMA-issued license prior to the class license taking effect earlier this year.
There's debate as to whether the ACMA should continue to keep that information, or whether another body (e.g. the WIA) manage that.
So procedures in this space will likely need to be amended over the coming months.
Regards,
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)
I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
The FCC / hard copy situation is a bit ironic as the FCC in the US also stopped issuing paper printouts. Instead, you get an official PDF from their website, but it is easily faked.
I have a stack of watermarked green security paper I've been using to print my licenses on. Happy to run some official-looking prints for local hams if anybody is interested.
The license validation process is indeed a bit broken these days. Ideally, the issuing authorities should also be minting a digital certificate with your license details, the private key to which you could keep private. This could then be used online for mutual TLS and automated validation of a license-holder's status. A cryptography geek can dream....
Cheers, jof
On Thu, 16 May 2024 at 10:07, Cliff Sojourner via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
From the US, minor point: the PDF from the FCC is not signed, so is easily edited... Which I have done, for comedic effect, only sharing among friends. Ha ha.
the FCC ULS database is the hard reference. A copy is available via xml subscription on qrz.com. so that's what ARDC uses?
The California state department of motor vehicle license issue requires a hard copy, printed. They can not use the online FCC database access. Trying to get an amateur call sign license plate, I ran the issue all the way through the DMV state office, even with my legislator's attention, they are unwilling / unable to budge.
Tldr: it's a mess!
Cliff K6CLS CM87
On May 16, 2024 1:54:11 AM PDT, "dave.g4ugm--- via 44net" 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I don’t believe we have had paper licences in the UK for 20 years now. I have an account on the OFCOM, so the “Quasi-Autonomous Government Body” (QUANGO) web site.
This allows me to download a PDF of my licence, which includes my call sign, licence class and both a station address and a postal address.
I checked and the PDF is not secured in any way. So is open to tampering.
I also hold a Spanish Licence, EA7KAE, and for this I have a word document, which again appears to be totally unsecured.
They also supply a printable ID card embedded in the word document.
In both cases the licences do not have an expiry date.
Dave
From: Peter Hannay via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2024 5:39 AM To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Level of Trust Expiration?
Just a quick correction to the below, ACMA does indeed still manage call signs, they don't manage licences for individual amateurs though.
The call sign register is here: https://www.acma.gov.au/call-signs
I'm not sure how we can prove ownership of a particular call sign anymore though.
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
Cheers
Peter VK6HAX
On Thu, 16 May 2024, 8:00 am Stuart Longland VK4MSL via 44net, 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
On 16/5/24 00:07, Razvan via 44net wrote:
I also have all the verifications (Callsign, Email, Mobile, Address) and I'm totaling 45 points.
From what I see on my end they are expiring exactly 1 year after they were initially verified.
Worth noting here… call-sign verification is going to get more difficult for some of us in the future. Here in Australia, amateur radio recently moved (for better or worse) to a class-licensing system wherein the ACMA no longer manages the assignment of call-signs.
(Prior to this, it was officially under an apparatus-license scheme, but was effectively policed like a class-license.)
This means that over time, call-signs will disappear from the ACMA database. They also haven't issued paper licenses in some 8 years or so. I managed to fish out what will possibly be my last ACMA-issued license prior to the class license taking effect earlier this year.
There's debate as to whether the ACMA should continue to keep that information, or whether another body (e.g. the WIA) manage that.
So procedures in this space will likely need to be amended over the coming months.
Regards,
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)
I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
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On 2024-05-16 12:38:59 (+0800), Peter Hannay via 44net wrote:
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
For what it's worth, since Rob PE1CHL has explained how it works in the Netherlands.
In Hong Kong, licensed amateurs get an "amateur station licence" and an "authority to operate". The ATO is a small typewritten paper card (roughly the size of a credit card) and only has a name and a callsign on it, and is valid for five years. The station licence is a 7-page A4 document setting out the conditions of the licence. It has the licensee's call sign, full name and address. It does not specify an expiry date, but must be renewed annually.
When you move, you send your station licence back to OFCA and they amend it with a typewriter, a chop and a signature.
I guess you could prove the licence is valid by presenting it together with the most recent renewal receipt. I'm not sure how much water it holds as a proof of address. :)
Philip
I'll share the Spanish situation:
After passing your exam and paying a fee, you obtain an Authorization with your call sign, this allows you to operate in the ham bands, and is all that is required for portable and mobile operation. It is nowadays (usually) a digitally signed PDF available in two versions: the "classic" one and the "card" format.
Then there is the amateur station licence, which is required to install and operate a fixed station, and is concerned with the legality of your antenna and transmission lines, intereference, and civil engineering concerns (such as wind loads and other stuff about which I know nothing).
If you move or change your personal details, you send an electronic request to the local Telecommunications authority and they send you a new PDF with the data amended. Since the PDFs are digitally signed, one can verify they're genuine by checking them in an official website or checking the validity of the signature in Adobe Reader.
73 de EA4FYQ
On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Philip Paeps via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 2024-05-16 12:38:59 (+0800), Peter Hannay via 44net wrote:
How is this currently handled in the UK? I believe they currently have a similar system to Australia.
For what it's worth, since Rob PE1CHL has explained how it works in the Netherlands.
In Hong Kong, licensed amateurs get an "amateur station licence" and an "authority to operate". The ATO is a small typewritten paper card (roughly the size of a credit card) and only has a name and a callsign on it, and is valid for five years. The station licence is a 7-page A4 document setting out the conditions of the licence. It has the licensee's call sign, full name and address. It does not specify an expiry date, but must be renewed annually.
When you move, you send your station licence back to OFCA and they amend it with a typewriter, a chop and a signature.
I guess you could prove the licence is valid by presenting it together with the most recent renewal receipt. I'm not sure how much water it holds as a proof of address. :)
Philip _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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