Hello everyone,
I, along with the board and staff, have been reading these messages.
First of all, I want you all to know that YOU ARE HEARD. The point of
having the TAC put out a proposal was to get feedback before adoption.
It turns out that a significant part of the feedback is negative. I
think that this proposal needs more work and adjustment before we can
consider implementing it. The board and I want to see consensus on the
main points of a proposal among the major schools of thought on this
mailing list. That said, it’s important to remember that the people on
this list are not the only people using the AMRPnet. We have a complex
task on our hands to reach as many of those people as possible as we
evolve proposals toward consensus.
Several board members have suggested that it's hard to find consensus on
solutions until we have a consensus on what problem(s) the solutions are
trying to solve. We have a tangle of issues like the complexity of IPIP
tunnels, to BGP routing, to address space sparseness, to low performance.
With this in mind, what problems with the AMPRnet do you think we should
be trying to solve first?
One thing we haven't communicated well before, is that we are actively
discussing budget and infrastructure for a “backbone” network of PoPs
(Points of Presence) of the 44net on various continents, to make it
easier for hams to connect to the AMPRnet with minimal effort and higher
performance. If you have ideas about how you would like to see this
happen, feel free to share here on the mailing list. I know that there’s
at least one alternative proposal on the way.
There’s obviously more discussion to be had, but for now, please rest
assured that no changes are going to be made without more input from you
and others using the AMPRnet.
I also want to thank the TAC for their work up to this point. They have
dedicated hundreds of hours to come up with this proposal. Even if its
release has cause some heated discussion, it’s critical that these
discussions happen. They will help all of us come up with the best
solution for how to most effectively organize our network for the future.
73,
Rosy
--
Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
Wow.
I've been watching lots of message traffic that really only applies to what
I would consider to be "edge cases"...BGP especially, when I'm here in the
Adirondack State Park in upstate New York, Secretary of the local club
(W2WCR), hollering "Hey, we should look into rebuilding the packet network
north along the Hudson to Montreal and west to Buffalo along the St
Laurence like it used to be." for a few years now and getting "Well, we
have winlink, so it's ok."
I have my allocation, and can't even use it because my local packet nodes
are stuck using some archaic BS that can't route netrom needs either a DOS
box with real serial ports and UARTS and a real TNC-2 with 6pack eprom
(done, invested about $100 in a mfg-1270c and community-supported
eprom...only to find out a year after buying it and waiting that it doesn't
work) or an old 2.x Linux kernel to even have half a chance.
I'm an extra now, but to be honest, I was really looking forward to playing
with packet. The local packet folks have been great, tho similarly
frustrated, either with having to attempt to upgrade the existing
Eastnet/Flexnet history lesson on sites that aren't exactly accessable or
even upgradable, or trying to convince clubs and county-maintained systems
that it would be in their best interest to upgrade or replace equipment
that used to exist but there is actually no real upgrade/migration path.
So I have a node running as best as 24/7 as I can, with no real motivation
to do so, no mail feed, wondering what the point actually is. And all I
see is BGP BGP BGP BGP....BGP, and oh, BGP mentioned in this mailing list,
wondering if there is some relation to CRT, as old as the tech is around
here.
I thought there was some RF involved, but all I see is BGP. If I wasn't an
IT person, with a MikroTik Routerboard, I wouldn't have a clue. That, and
the fact that I'm practically in a broadband desert, literally makes me
sick and tired of any discussion of connecting anything anywhere that
doesn't involve RF.
Hm. Perhaps I need to say that again.
I AM PERSONALLY SICK AND TIRED OF CONVERSATIONS DEALING WITH PACKET
RADIO/AX.25 THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE RF. YOU CAN'T GET THERE FROM HERE!!!!!!
FSCK GBP. Some of us can only wish we weren't stuck with hoping someone
will connect with our PC3+s or hand-configured direwolf linux/uronode
systems who are interested in something called "packet radio". When is
someone going to start dealing with the fact that there are AMATEUR
__RADIO__ OPERATORS, WITH _AMATEUR RADIO LICENSES_ that may actually be
interested in sending digital, AX.25 via IP to other anateur radio
operators via RF? I can't possibly be the only one.
Geez.
Sorry. Just frustrated for a little too long, seeing lots of traffic I'd
consider "Much todo about nothing" and lots of money behind it.
WTF, over.
73 de Jeff AJ2A
Jeff Archambeault
Proprietor, Bark Eater Studios
Technology Frustration Resolution Solutions
jeff(a)barkeaterstudios.com
(518) 696-5675 (home)
(518) 595-9815 (cell)
On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 13:29:33 -0700, Rosy Wolfe <rosy(a)ardc.net> wrote:
> With this in mind, what problems with the AMPRnet do you think we should
> be trying to solve first?
I've been subscribed to the list for a while, but I'm not currently an
AMPRnet user. (I have been a ham for over 40 years, and I did run
TCP/IP over AX.25 back in the nineties.) My background is in software
development, not networking, so while I know about building
high-volume web services, and I'd guess I know quite a bit more about
networking than the average ham, much of the networking discussion
here is well over my head.
After trying to follow the discussion, I welcome the board and Rosy's
attempt to reset things a bit, but I wonder if instead of asking "What
problems with the AMPRnet do you think we should be trying to solve
first?," we should first ask and try to answer "What is AMPRnet for?"
The TAC document discusses reserving address space for
non-Internet-connected "amateur radio-based networks," along with
other uses. But as I understand it, some people here don't think that
AMPRnet addresses should be reserved for things that will never be
part of the Internet.
I'd like to see a clear definition of what hams are using AMPRnet
addresses for now and what they would like to be able to do in the
future. In software development we talk about "use cases." According
to Wikipedia: "A use case is a list of actions or event steps
typically defining the interactions between a role (known in the
Unified Modeling Language (UML) as an actor) and a system to achieve a
goal."[1] An actor might be an individual ham, a network
administrator, or someone else. I wonder if trying to describe how
AMPRnet is being used today, what is easy and what is too difficult
and what we would like to enable in the future would help to provide a
basis for discussion.
If there were consensus on which use cases are most valuable, which
are too hard to accomplish today and similar questions, then we would
have a better basis to evaluate proposals with respect to how well
they solve the important problems, how difficult or disruptive they
are to implement and so forth.
Jim N1ADJ
1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case
Hello,
just fyi: I was unsubscribed from the list since 2921-95-26 (where I received a last posting), without notice.
Over the past weeks I thought, it's so quiet - nice, everyone enjoys vacation ;)
Anyone else had this issue?
vy 73,
- Thomas dl9sau
Hello,
Apologies for the extra noise on the list (re. Contact requests). I get a few bounce messages each month when the portal reminders go out - these are just folk that the portal can't reach and are at risk of losing their account.
Secondly, please note my new ARDC email address: chris(a)ardc.net
Please use this for any ARDC/AMPRNet comms specifically for me, personally.
If you have any none personal comms, then you can use the following emails:
abuse(a)ardc.net - Please report here any suspicious activity: suspected unauthorised BGP announcements, spam, compromised hosts, etc.
We also support the following RFC2142 emails:
hostmaster(a)ardc.net
webmaster(a)ardc.net
postmaster(a)ardc.net
Currently the above four emails are forwarded to me, but it’s probably better to use these emails rather than emailing me direct in the first instance, e.g. in case I’m on holiday, we may redirect them to someone else.
Thanks,
Chris
Hello,
If VE6SLP is seeing this, or if anyone knows how to contact them, please can they email me privately: chris(a)ardc.net <mailto:chris@ardc.net>
Thanks,
Chris - G1FEF
