Dont worry I read manuals, laws and many more things. What you dont seem to understand is the fact that you are not entitled to anything beside what ARDC board/staff decide. What ever the RFC or whatever else you think might mean something. ARDC have the right to decide to change any information they think should apply to all of the IP space they own.
The only rights you have is to ask politely if they are ok with letting you use a part of it. They have no other obligation to you than to answer yes or no. And even when they say yes, they have no obligation to give you the control over rDNS, or BGP , geolocalisation, or anything else.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 12:24 À : pete M Objet : Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
This is where we (and others, i.e. those who can read manuals) disagree.
No fact of the matter or the infrastructure of the Internet dictates the point of view you've seem to have blindly espoised about ARDC. Read the RFCs.
Further, please don't add specifics of IP space to an already convoluted subject.
Given these discussions seem to go off topic as you have attempted purposely twice - I'll simply refrain from engaging in chat with you.
If this was genuine, Thanks. If not, I'm confused why you would do it.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M petem001@hotmail.com Date: 6/13/24 11:08 (GMT-05:00) To: lleachii@aol.com Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
You are responsible of YOUR station, ARDC grants you the right to TEMPORARY USE some IP address to use for hamradio, those are NOT YOURS same for the setting linked to them.
If you have no clue of the contract you have entered when asking for those IP address, better read them and understand, than thinking you own something and clame what you have no rights to.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 10:31 À : pete M via 44net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
There is no such thing. Maybe you misunderstand what I'm referring to. We are responsible for our own stations during an emergency in the US (hence why ARDC shouldn't mess with MY settings since I may be disconnected from them when discovering it). I assumed this was international at any given moment.
If you have no clue or understanding, you should remain silent in that case. It's easier to be quiet and learn tan to be loud and wrong.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 6/13/24 09:53 (GMT-05:00) To: Amprnet 44 Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Since when is it OK to use 44net for any other use than ham experimentation on that IP address space?
If you use a network for experimentation as a primary link for emergency you miss understood the use of the 44net.
Yes it is appealing to do so. But be aware that this network can and will change over the time. Some stuff will break. Some will cease to exist. And new stuff will appear.
ARDC is not a ISP nor a commercial entity that provide professional services for commercial grade networking. If the network infrastructure you use is primary for life safety, better go the commercial route. If you are a BACKUP in case everything else is gone. That is not the same thing, and the authority dealing with ham should better know about it.
This is my opinion of the situation and note ARDC view. I am not talking for them.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 06:47 À : lleachii@aol.com Cc : Amprnet 44 Net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hello Lynwood,
For the record, I have never made any derogatory remarks to you publicly or in private, you completely misconstrued an offer of help I made for reasons I still do not understand. If you wish to discuss this then I am more than happy to, as I would like to clear up any misunderstandings. Please feel free to contact me off-list as this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.
With regards to the rest of your email, I refer you to Rosy’s email to this list which explains the current situation. I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Kind Regards, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
On 13 Jun 2024, at 11:10, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Chris,
I have logged in and understand that the portal system says "with user".
What I do not understand is this -
* Is there a policy in place? * Will you then proceed to delete these "non callsign" entries once one it is implemented?
You all may not have noticed, but I'm being very particular NOT to agree to new DNS terms, IP record changes, etc. (i.e. stuff that preexisted your control of this domain and space). Before I post the text (since it's quite similar to what I read posted by an ARDC employee), I will not quote it at this time. Please offer clarity (publicly, because you have said some derogatory things to me before in private which you seem uncourageous to say publicly - so I'm uncomfortable) before I proceed.
I also need ARDC to understand that there will be concerns if you then proceed to delete entries I've made very clear I wish to continue use of (as well as my GOVERNMENTAL RACES SPONSOR). I've explained the nature of your inheritance, but somehow - I need to clarify this seemingly contrary policy before I agree.
Please note, my records also show and indicate this "policy" is not because of the numerous amount of DNS records - I will not discuss this further here. Anyone seeing the updates on portal ticket clearing statistics can see that. And if your answer is YES to the latter question above - common sense also provides that you can just as well identify and handle them, as you would need to do so to accomplish that task. Yet, a hassle for records I'm in fact attempting to claim (over and over - obviously I'm making records that I'm clamming them)?
Since I pray common scene now prevails - I simply ask you not hold my records "hostage" in this commercialization game.
Thanks and 73,
Lynwood
KB3VWG
(reviewed by a Sensitivity Expert, please be courageous and secretly report the entire text as a Code of Conduct violation if you desire, including this disclaimer to show your ignorance - yes this portion was reviewed as well)
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 03:17:04 PM EDT, Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
Please check your tickets, I replied 2 day ago, just waiting on your reply.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 12 Jun 2024, at 18:43, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I have not been allowed to make those edits.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 01:36:45 PM EDT, Steve L via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
In my opinion for the purposes of tracking ownership, nonstandard subdomains should only exist via a cname record.
Example of Lynwood (doing it correctly in my opinion)
speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN CNAME kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10
In theory speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/ could have a direct A record.. such as speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10 But that is problematic.
Just my 2 cents.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 12:11 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: Dear 44Net community,
It’s been just over two months since we launched the new Portal. It came with, as you have seen, some major bumps. Today, ARDC is resolving, at least temporarily, one of those hurdles: administrative access to subdomains.
As of today, anyone who had a subdomain with ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ before the launch of the new Portal on April 3, 2024, will, for now, have full access to their DNS records. This includes subdomains that fall outside of our preferred format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/.
This administrative access still depends on call sign verification, which requires confirming given name, family name, email, and valid amateur radio license. This step helps us ensure that the network is being used by valid amateur radio operators. During our recent work, we’ve found several bad actors, which is both unfair to the community and a security risk.
We’ve also made a functional change to the portal: once a call sign is verified, you are now automatically able to create a subdomain with the format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/. All other new requests for subdomains that fall outside of that format (e.g., foo.ampr.orghttp://foo.ampr.org/, which I’ll refer to as nonstandard subdomains for brevity) will require review and approval.
Please note that we will be limiting the number of nonstandard subdomains going forward. Thus, if you have one (or, in some cases, many more), please consider it temporary. You can currently create as many second-level subdomains as you want—e.g., foo.callsign.ampr.orghttp://foo.callsign.ampr.org/, bar.callsign.ampr.orghttp://bar.callsign.ampr.org/, etc.
We are working on a more official policy around subdomains using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/. As promised at the recent regional coordinators' meeting, we will ensure you can see this policy before officially implementing it. We will also provide a transition period, likely many months, for users to edit their entries before official deprecation. This is, ultimately, what we should have done initially, and we take responsibility for not following a better process and, instead, rolling out this change without taking proper preparatory steps.
Some of you may be wondering why we are making this change in the first place. It is because, without doing so, we end up in our current and very unwieldy situation: a database of over 51,000 DNS entries, most without knowledge of who they belong to, accumulated over at least a decade, with very few entries currently in use. If we aim to increase the usage of 44Net, then we need a system where we understand ownership and are able to provide an efficient service where we can address problems as they arise.
For now, we hope that this helps to unblock anyone that currently feels blocked, while also providing an ample notice for changes that are coming down the pipeline at a later, though likely not-so-distant date.
If you have questions, please ask.
Many thanks, Rosy
-- Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.nethttp://ardc.net/ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Pete,
As all can see I had noting to hide; but I think it's in extremely poor taste to proceed to share a private email you decided to write to me, in addition my private email address (PII), etc. I now understand more of your character. Again, please stop polluting the thread on another topic - now trying to make it seem as if I am the cause.
- KB3VWG
Lynwood,
On 6/13/24 14:16, lleachii--- via 44net wrote:
Pete,
As all can see I had noting to hide; but I think it's in extremely poor taste to proceed to share a private email you decided to write to me, in addition my private email address (PII), etc.
Your personal email address is contained within the Reply-To header of all of your emails to this list.
I now understand more of your character. Again, please stop polluting the thread on another topic - now trying to make it seem as if I am the cause.
As far as I have seen over the course of the past few months of being on this list, the majority of the toxicity on this list seems to stem from conversations you're involved in.
73, Cara KC1KZT
Cara, How is this related to the topic? I'm trying really hard not to construe your response as harassment.
73,
KB3VWG On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 03:33:04 PM EDT, Cara Salter via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
On 6/13/24 14:16, lleachii--- via 44net wrote:
Pete,
As all can see I had noting to hide; but I think it's in extremely poor taste to proceed to share a private email you decided to write to me, in addition my private email address (PII), etc.
Your personal email address is contained within the Reply-To header of all of your emails to this list.
I now understand more of your character. Again, please stop polluting the thread on another topic - now trying to make it seem as if I am the cause.
As far as I have seen over the course of the past few months of being on this list, the majority of the toxicity on this list seems to stem from conversations you're involved in.
73, Cara KC1KZT _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Not only that, but anything can change with no notice, including your complete allocation. If you need something more solid than that, Perhaps you should not be using ampr.org http://ampr.org/ for anything.
For my allocation, I am advertising from Vultr.com http://vultr.com/. My own infrastructure that I pay for. Plus I am operating my own DNS and rDNS. I didn’t really need my machines in ampr.org http://ampr.org/ anyway. Try looking up 44.127.63.1 (in Australia).
— Dave K9DC, K9IP
On Jun 13, 2024, at 13:24, pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Dont worry I read manuals, laws and many more things. What you dont seem to understand is the fact that you are not entitled to anything beside what ARDC board/staff decide. What ever the RFC or whatever else you think might mean something. ARDC have the right to decide to change any information they think should apply to all of the IP space they own.
The only rights you have is to ask politely if they are ok with letting you use a part of it. They have no other obligation to you than to answer yes or no. And even when they say yes, they have no obligation to give you the control over rDNS, or BGP , geolocalisation, or anything else.
Pierre
VE2PF
De : lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 12:24 À : pete M Objet : Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
This is where we (and others, i.e. those who can read manuals) disagree.
No fact of the matter or the infrastructure of the Internet dictates the point of view you've seem to have blindly espoised about ARDC. Read the RFCs.
Further, please don't add specifics of IP space to an already convoluted subject.
Given these discussions seem to go off topic as you have attempted purposely twice - I'll simply refrain from engaging in chat with you.
If this was genuine, Thanks. If not, I'm confused why you would do it.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M petem001@hotmail.com Date: 6/13/24 11:08 (GMT-05:00) To: lleachii@aol.com Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
You are responsible of YOUR station, ARDC grants you the right to TEMPORARY USE some IP address to use for hamradio, those are NOT YOURS same for the setting linked to them.
If you have no clue of the contract you have entered when asking for those IP address, better read them and understand, than thinking you own something and clame what you have no rights to.
Pierre
VE2PF
De : lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 10:31 À : pete M via 44net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
There is no such thing. Maybe you misunderstand what I'm referring to. We are responsible for our own stations during an emergency in the US (hence why ARDC shouldn't mess with MY settings since I may be disconnected from them when discovering it). I assumed this was international at any given moment.
If you have no clue or understanding, you should remain silent in that case. It's easier to be quiet and learn tan to be loud and wrong.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 6/13/24 09:53 (GMT-05:00) To: Amprnet 44 Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Since when is it OK to use 44net for any other use than ham experimentation on that IP address space?
If you use a network for experimentation as a primary link for emergency you miss understood the use of the 44net.
Yes it is appealing to do so. But be aware that this network can and will change over the time. Some stuff will break. Some will cease to exist. And new stuff will appear.
ARDC is not a ISP nor a commercial entity that provide professional services for commercial grade networking. If the network infrastructure you use is primary for life safety, better go the commercial route. If you are a BACKUP in case everything else is gone. That is not the same thing, and the authority dealing with ham should better know about it.
This is my opinion of the situation and note ARDC view. I am not talking for them.
Pierre
VE2PF
De : Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 06:47 À : lleachii@aol.com Cc : Amprnet 44 Net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hello Lynwood,
For the record, I have never made any derogatory remarks to you publicly or in private, you completely misconstrued an offer of help I made for reasons I still do not understand. If you wish to discuss this then I am more than happy to, as I would like to clear up any misunderstandings. Please feel free to contact me off-list as this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.
With regards to the rest of your email, I refer you to Rosy’s email to this list which explains the current situation. I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Kind Regards, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
On 13 Jun 2024, at 11:10, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Chris,
I have logged in and understand that the portal system says "with user".
What I do not understand is this -
- Is there a policy in place?
- Will you then proceed to delete these "non callsign" entries once one it is implemented?
You all may not have noticed, but I'm being very particular NOT to agree to new DNS terms, IP record changes, etc. (i.e. stuff that preexisted your control of this domain and space). Before I post the text (since it's quite similar to what I read posted by an ARDC employee), I will not quote it at this time. Please offer clarity (publicly, because you have said some derogatory things to me before in private which you seem uncourageous to say publicly - so I'm uncomfortable) before I proceed.
I also need ARDC to understand that there will be concerns if you then proceed to delete entries I've made very clear I wish to continue use of (as well as my GOVERNMENTAL RACES SPONSOR). I've explained the nature of your inheritance, but somehow - I need to clarify this seemingly contrary policy before I agree.
Please note, my records also show and indicate this "policy" is not because of the numerous amount of DNS records - I will not discuss this further here. Anyone seeing the updates on portal ticket clearing statistics can see that. And if your answer is YES to the latter question above - common sense also provides that you can just as well identify and handle them, as you would need to do so to accomplish that task. Yet, a hassle for records I'm in fact attempting to claim (over and over - obviously I'm making records that I'm clamming them)?
Since I pray common scene now prevails - I simply ask you not hold my records "hostage" in this commercialization game.
Thanks and 73,
Lynwood
KB3VWG
(reviewed by a Sensitivity Expert, please be courageous and secretly report the entire text as a Code of Conduct violation if you desire, including this disclaimer to show your ignorance - yes this portion was reviewed as well)
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 03:17:04 PM EDT, Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
Please check your tickets, I replied 2 day ago, just waiting on your reply.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 12 Jun 2024, at 18:43, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I have not been allowed to make those edits.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 01:36:45 PM EDT, Steve L via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
In my opinion for the purposes of tracking ownership, nonstandard subdomains should only exist via a cname record.
Example of Lynwood (doing it correctly in my opinion)
speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN CNAME kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10
In theory speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/ could have a direct A record.. such as speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10 But that is problematic.
Just my 2 cents.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 12:11 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: Dear 44Net community,
It’s been just over two months since we launched the new Portal. It came with, as you have seen, some major bumps. Today, ARDC is resolving, at least temporarily, one of those hurdles: administrative access to subdomains.
As of today, anyone who had a subdomain with ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ before the launch of the new Portal on April 3, 2024, will, for now, have full access to their DNS records. This includes subdomains that fall outside of our preferred format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/.
This administrative access still depends on call sign verification, which requires confirming given name, family name, email, and valid amateur radio license. This step helps us ensure that the network is being used by valid amateur radio operators. During our recent work, we’ve found several bad actors, which is both unfair to the community and a security risk.
We’ve also made a functional change to the portal: once a call sign is verified, you are now automatically able to create a subdomain with the format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/. All other new requests for subdomains that fall outside of that format (e.g., foo.ampr.orghttp://foo.ampr.org/, which I’ll refer to as nonstandard subdomains for brevity) will require review and approval.
Please note that we will be limiting the number of nonstandard subdomains going forward. Thus, if you have one (or, in some cases, many more), please consider it temporary. You can currently create as many second-level subdomains as you want—e.g., foo.callsign.ampr.orghttp://foo.callsign.ampr.org/, bar.callsign.ampr.orghttp://bar.callsign.ampr.org/, etc.
We are working on a more official policy around subdomains using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/. As promised at the recent regional coordinators' meeting, we will ensure you can see this policy before officially implementing it. We will also provide a transition period, likely many months, for users to edit their entries before official deprecation. This is, ultimately, what we should have done initially, and we take responsibility for not following a better process and, instead, rolling out this change without taking proper preparatory steps.
Some of you may be wondering why we are making this change in the first place. It is because, without doing so, we end up in our current and very unwieldy situation: a database of over 51,000 DNS entries, most without knowledge of who they belong to, accumulated over at least a decade, with very few entries currently in use. If we aim to increase the usage of 44Net, then we need a system where we understand ownership and are able to provide an efficient service where we can address problems as they arise.
For now, we hope that this helps to unblock anyone that currently feels blocked, while also providing an ample notice for changes that are coming down the pipeline at a later, though likely not-so-distant date.
If you have questions, please ask.
Many thanks, Rosy
-- Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.nethttp://ardc.net/ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Dave,
I appreciate your response. But again, I still choose not to change the topic.
I think you also forgot about my infrastructure and that of my sponsor (i.e. radio towers I mentioned for actual amateur use and access). It does indeed seem ARDC doesn't welcome amateur use, aside from these different fanciful descriptions everyone seems to have, just different from mine and others. Nonetheless, just know in our region, regardless of DNS or IP, we'll welcome all those who have a a licence (in the US Technician Class would cover it and the bands used) and have the equipment. Just seems there's another way to connect to 44net (maybe Wireguard). Just recall, that will be blocked here - you cannot obscure the meaning of a packet on licensed bands (I hope this is starting to make sense to some).
- Lynwood
On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 02:24:10 PM EDT, Dave Gingrich via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Not only that, but anything can change with no notice, including your complete allocation. If you need something more solid than that, Perhaps you should not be using ampr.org for anything. For my allocation, I am advertising from Vultr.com. My own infrastructure that I pay for. Plus I am operating my own DNS and rDNS. I didn’t really need my machines in ampr.org anyway. Try looking up 44.127.63.1 (in Australia).
— Dave K9DC, K9IP
On Jun 13, 2024, at 13:24, pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote: Dont worry I read manuals, laws and many more things. What you dont seem to understand is the fact that you are not entitled to anything beside what ARDC board/staff decide. What ever the RFC or whatever else you think might mean something. ARDC have the right to decide to change any information they think should apply to all of the IP space they own.
The only rights you have is to ask politely if they are ok with letting you use a part of it. They have no other obligation to you than to answer yes or no. And even when they say yes, they have no obligation to give you the control over rDNS, or BGP , geolocalisation, or anything else.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 12:24 À : pete M Objet : Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
This is where we (and others, i.e. those who can read manuals) disagree.
No fact of the matter or the infrastructure of the Internet dictates the point of view you've seem to have blindly espoised about ARDC. Read the RFCs.
Further, please don't add specifics of IP space to an already convoluted subject.
Given these discussions seem to go off topic as you have attempted purposely twice - I'll simply refrain from engaging in chat with you.
If this was genuine, Thanks. If not, I'm confused why you would do it.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M petem001@hotmail.com Date: 6/13/24 11:08 (GMT-05:00) To: lleachii@aol.com Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
You are responsible of YOUR station, ARDC grants you the right to TEMPORARY USE some IP address to use for hamradio, those are NOT YOURS same for the setting linked to them.
If you have no clue of the contract you have entered when asking for those IP address, better read them and understand, than thinking you own something and clame what you have no rights to.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 10:31 À : pete M via 44net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
There is no such thing. Maybe you misunderstand what I'm referring to. We are responsible for our own stations during an emergency in the US (hence why ARDC shouldn't mess with MY settings since I may be disconnected from them when discovering it). I assumed this was international at any given moment.
If you have no clue or understanding, you should remain silent in that case. It's easier to be quiet and learn tan to be loud and wrong.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 6/13/24 09:53 (GMT-05:00) To: Amprnet 44 Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Since when is it OK to use 44net for any other use than ham experimentation on that IP address space?
If you use a network for experimentation as a primary link for emergency you miss understood the use of the 44net.
Yes it is appealing to do so. But be aware that this network can and will change over the time. Some stuff will break. Some will cease to exist. And new stuff will appear.
ARDC is not a ISP nor a commercial entity that provide professional services for commercial grade networking. If the network infrastructure you use is primary for life safety, better go the commercial route. If you are a BACKUP in case everything else is gone. That is not the same thing, and the authority dealing with ham should better know about it.
This is my opinion of the situation and note ARDC view. I am not talking for them.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 06:47 À : lleachii@aol.com Cc : Amprnet 44 Net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hello Lynwood,
For the record, I have never made any derogatory remarks to you publicly or in private, you completely misconstrued an offer of help I made for reasons I still do not understand. If you wish to discuss this then I am more than happy to, as I would like to clear up any misunderstandings. Please feel free to contact me off-list as this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.
With regards to the rest of your email, I refer you to Rosy’s email to this list which explains the current situation. I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Kind Regards, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
On 13 Jun 2024, at 11:10, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Chris,
I have logged in and understand that the portal system says "with user".
What I do not understand is this -
* Is there a policy in place? * Will you then proceed to delete these "non callsign" entries once one it is implemented?
You all may not have noticed, but I'm being very particular NOT to agree to new DNS terms, IP record changes, etc. (i.e. stuff that preexisted your control of this domain and space). Before I post the text (since it's quite similar to what I read posted by an ARDC employee), I will not quote it at this time. Please offer clarity (publicly, because you have said some derogatory things to me before in private which you seem uncourageous to say publicly - so I'm uncomfortable) before I proceed.
I also need ARDC to understand that there will be concerns if you then proceed to delete entries I've made very clear I wish to continue use of (as well as my GOVERNMENTAL RACES SPONSOR). I've explained the nature of your inheritance, but somehow - I need to clarify this seemingly contrary policy before I agree.
Please note, my records also show and indicate this "policy" is not because of the numerous amount of DNS records - I will not discuss this further here. Anyone seeing the updates on portal ticket clearing statistics can see that. And if your answer is YES to the latter question above - common sense also provides that you can just as well identify and handle them, as you would need to do so to accomplish that task. Yet, a hassle for records I'm in fact attempting to claim (over and over - obviously I'm making records that I'm clamming them)?
Since I pray common scene now prevails - I simply ask you not hold my records "hostage" in this commercialization game.
Thanks and 73,
Lynwood
KB3VWG
(reviewed by a Sensitivity Expert, please be courageous and secretly report the entire text as a Code of Conduct violation if you desire, including this disclaimer to show your ignorance - yes this portion was reviewed as well)
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 03:17:04 PM EDT, Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
Please check your tickets, I replied 2 day ago, just waiting on your reply.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 12 Jun 2024, at 18:43, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I have not been allowed to make those edits.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 01:36:45 PM EDT, Steve L via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
In my opinion for the purposes of tracking ownership, nonstandard subdomains should only exist via a cname record.
Example of Lynwood (doing it correctly in my opinion)
speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN CNAME kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10
In theory speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/ could have a direct A record.. such as speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10 But that is problematic.
Just my 2 cents.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 12:11 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: Dear 44Net community,
It’s been just over two months since we launched the new Portal. It came with, as you have seen, some major bumps. Today, ARDC is resolving, at least temporarily, one of those hurdles: administrative access to subdomains.
As of today, anyone who had a subdomain with ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ before the launch of the new Portal on April 3, 2024, will, for now, have full access to their DNS records. This includes subdomains that fall outside of our preferred format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/.
This administrative access still depends on call sign verification, which requires confirming given name, family name, email, and valid amateur radio license. This step helps us ensure that the network is being used by valid amateur radio operators. During our recent work, we’ve found several bad actors, which is both unfair to the community and a security risk.
We’ve also made a functional change to the portal: once a call sign is verified, you are now automatically able to create a subdomain with the format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/. All other new requests for subdomains that fall outside of that format (e.g., foo.ampr.orghttp://foo.ampr.org/, which I’ll refer to as nonstandard subdomains for brevity) will require review and approval.
Please note that we will be limiting the number of nonstandard subdomains going forward. Thus, if you have one (or, in some cases, many more), please consider it temporary. You can currently create as many second-level subdomains as you want—e.g., foo.callsign.ampr.orghttp://foo.callsign.ampr.org/, bar.callsign.ampr.orghttp://bar.callsign.ampr.org/, etc.
We are working on a more official policy around subdomains using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/. As promised at the recent regional coordinators' meeting, we will ensure you can see this policy before officially implementing it. We will also provide a transition period, likely many months, for users to edit their entries before official deprecation. This is, ultimately, what we should have done initially, and we take responsibility for not following a better process and, instead, rolling out this change without taking proper preparatory steps.
Some of you may be wondering why we are making this change in the first place. It is because, without doing so, we end up in our current and very unwieldy situation: a database of over 51,000 DNS entries, most without knowledge of who they belong to, accumulated over at least a decade, with very few entries currently in use. If we aim to increase the usage of 44Net, then we need a system where we understand ownership and are able to provide an efficient service where we can address problems as they arise.
For now, we hope that this helps to unblock anyone that currently feels blocked, while also providing an ample notice for changes that are coming down the pipeline at a later, though likely not-so-distant date.
If you have questions, please ask.
Many thanks, Rosy
-- Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.nethttp://ardc.net/ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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On 6/13/24 14:49, lleachii--- via 44net wrote:
Dave,
I appreciate your response. But again, I still choose not to change the topic.
I think you also forgot about my infrastructure and that of my sponsor (i.e. radio towers I mentioned for actual amateur use and access).
It does indeed seem ARDC doesn't welcome amateur use, aside from these different fanciful descriptions everyone seems to have, just different from mine and others.
Nonetheless, just know in our region, regardless of DNS or IP, we'll welcome all those who have a a licence (in the US Technician Class would cover it and the bands used) and have the equipment. Just seems there's another way to connect to 44net (maybe Wireguard).
Just recall, that will be blocked here - you cannot obscure the meaning of a packet on licensed bands (I hope this is starting to make sense to some).
I think the idea behind the Wireguard VPN is to allow people to connect to AMPRGW or other gateways using a modern protocol on the non-RF links of the internet. From what I've understood and heard, the Wireguard connection would be terminated before entering 44net space.
73, Cara KC1KZT
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 3:55 PM Cara Salter via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
On 6/13/24 14:49, lleachii--- via 44net wrote:
Dave,
I appreciate your response. But again, I still choose not to change the topic.
I think you also forgot about my infrastructure and that of my sponsor (i.e. radio towers I mentioned for actual amateur use and access).
It does indeed seem ARDC doesn't welcome amateur use, aside from these different fanciful descriptions everyone seems to have, just different from mine and others.
Nonetheless, just know in our region, regardless of DNS or IP, we'll welcome all those who have a a licence (in the US Technician Class would cover it and the bands used) and have the equipment. Just seems there's another way to connect to 44net (maybe Wireguard).
Just recall, that will be blocked here - you cannot obscure the meaning of a packet on licensed bands (I hope this is starting to make sense to some).
I think the idea behind the Wireguard VPN is to allow people to connect to AMPRGW or other gateways using a modern protocol on the non-RF links of the internet. From what I've understood and heard, the Wireguard connection would be terminated before entering 44net space.
Correct. As I understand it, the intent is for a bunch of wireguard VPNs to replace the existing IPENCAP tunnel mesh. So instead of having bidirectional tunnels between sites carrying 44net traffic, sites would instead establish VPN connections to a (hopefully?) nearby POP that then route traffic normally across the broader Internet. So for example, if one is in the northeastern US one might VPN into a NE-US POP and route through it. But the VPN infrastructure would not be used over the air (again, as I understand it).
In some respects this will be an improvement over the existing tunnel mesh: sites won't have to maintain all the routes themselves, and programs like ampr-ripd or my own 44ripd can slowly fade into obscurity. On the other hand, it will, on average, make connecting between sites marginally slower: the existing point-to-point tunnels are, in some way, optimal between sites as presumably the routing of encapsulated datagrams flows directly between endpoints (or as directly as anything routed over the Internet ever is, anyway).
A lot of the tension in this conversation seems to come, as far as I can tell, from miscommunication, and could probably be resolved with a (probably even relatively short!) video conference.
To a just slightly lesser extent, I suspect some of the issues stem from a perceived lack of transparency around the "fishbowl" style of changes implemented on AMPRNet recently. Communication around _what_ is happening is important, but equally -- if not more important -- is involving the community and communication both the _how_ and the _why_. This latter could be improved.
- Dan C.
Dan,
Our original intent is to use HSMM Best Practices, this would require OLSR. A 44net users would have such ease of "roaming" with the new portal.
The policies and restrictions and nay-sayers now end that vision. You woulda simply needed to change your gateway to the government's sponsor for your travel and have connection on-RF throughout (at least by coverage estimates in my county) and revert it back afterwards. I only hear peoples contrary ideas of what 44net should become hindering that RF idea. I just proposed another idea. I actually thought this was HSMM - and realized you all have other thoughts.
- KB3VWG
On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 04:18:39 PM EDT, Dan Cross via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 3:55 PM Cara Salter via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
On 6/13/24 14:49, lleachii--- via 44net wrote:
Dave,
I appreciate your response. But again, I still choose not to change the topic.
I think you also forgot about my infrastructure and that of my sponsor (i.e. radio towers I mentioned for actual amateur use and access).
It does indeed seem ARDC doesn't welcome amateur use, aside from these different fanciful descriptions everyone seems to have, just different from mine and others.
Nonetheless, just know in our region, regardless of DNS or IP, we'll welcome all those who have a a licence (in the US Technician Class would cover it and the bands used) and have the equipment. Just seems there's another way to connect to 44net (maybe Wireguard).
Just recall, that will be blocked here - you cannot obscure the meaning of a packet on licensed bands (I hope this is starting to make sense to some).
I think the idea behind the Wireguard VPN is to allow people to connect to AMPRGW or other gateways using a modern protocol on the non-RF links of the internet. From what I've understood and heard, the Wireguard connection would be terminated before entering 44net space.
Correct. As I understand it, the intent is for a bunch of wireguard VPNs to replace the existing IPENCAP tunnel mesh. So instead of having bidirectional tunnels between sites carrying 44net traffic, sites would instead establish VPN connections to a (hopefully?) nearby POP that then route traffic normally across the broader Internet. So for example, if one is in the northeastern US one might VPN into a NE-US POP and route through it. But the VPN infrastructure would not be used over the air (again, as I understand it).
In some respects this will be an improvement over the existing tunnel mesh: sites won't have to maintain all the routes themselves, and programs like ampr-ripd or my own 44ripd can slowly fade into obscurity. On the other hand, it will, on average, make connecting between sites marginally slower: the existing point-to-point tunnels are, in some way, optimal between sites as presumably the routing of encapsulated datagrams flows directly between endpoints (or as directly as anything routed over the Internet ever is, anyway).
A lot of the tension in this conversation seems to come, as far as I can tell, from miscommunication, and could probably be resolved with a (probably even relatively short!) video conference.
To a just slightly lesser extent, I suspect some of the issues stem from a perceived lack of transparency around the "fishbowl" style of changes implemented on AMPRNet recently. Communication around _what_ is happening is important, but equally -- if not more important -- is involving the community and communication both the _how_ and the _why_. This latter could be improved.
- Dan C. _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On 14/6/24 6:17 am, Dan Cross via 44net wrote:
Correct. As I understand it, the intent is for a bunch of wireguard VPNs to replace the existing IPENCAP tunnel mesh. So instead of having bidirectional tunnels between sites carrying 44net traffic, sites would instead establish VPN connections to a (hopefully?) nearby POP that then route traffic normally across the broader Internet. So for example, if one is in the northeastern US one might VPN into a NE-US POP and route through it. But the VPN infrastructure would not be used over the air (again, as I understand it).
That was my understanding as well, to make it easier for the average end user to connect to the IPIP (or its replacement) infrastructure. I did similar for myself, putting my IPIP endpoint in the cloud and then using a ZeroTier bridge to make my subnet accessible here, allowing ZeroTier to do the work of getting through local NAT. The VPS where the IPIP terminates is relatively close to me, so performance is good.
When ARDC replace the IPIP mesh, I'd like to put my VPS on the backbone, so I can use my existing link without the overhead of an additional VPN tunnel, since I already have equivalent functionality in place.
In some respects this will be an improvement over the existing tunnel mesh: sites won't have to maintain all the routes themselves, and programs like ampr-ripd or my own 44ripd can slowly fade into obscurity. On the other hand, it will, on average, make connecting between sites marginally slower: the existing point-to-point tunnels are, in some way, optimal between sites as presumably the routing of encapsulated datagrams flows directly between endpoints (or as directly as anything routed over the Internet ever is, anyway).
The way the routing works is one thing I like about the IPIP mesh that VPNs by themselves can't easily reproduce, but I believe there's more modern methods out there to replace the IPIP functionality with, with the last hop to the end user being done using Wireguard, unless they choose to participate in the backbone.
Your licence and right to use some frequency is not at play here.
Obtenir Outlook pour Androidhttps://aka.ms/AAb9ysg ________________________________ From: lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 2:49:51 PM To: pete M petem001@hotmail.com; Dave Gingrich dave@dcg.us Cc: 44net@mailman.ampr.org 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Dave,
I appreciate your response. But again, I still choose not to change the topic.
I think you also forgot about my infrastructure and that of my sponsor (i.e. radio towers I mentioned for actual amateur use and access).
It does indeed seem ARDC doesn't welcome amateur use, aside from these different fanciful descriptions everyone seems to have, just different from mine and others.
Nonetheless, just know in our region, regardless of DNS or IP, we'll welcome all those who have a a licence (in the US Technician Class would cover it and the bands used) and have the equipment. Just seems there's another way to connect to 44net (maybe Wireguard).
Just recall, that will be blocked here - you cannot obscure the meaning of a packet on licensed bands (I hope this is starting to make sense to some).
- Lynwood
On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 02:24:10 PM EDT, Dave Gingrich via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Not only that, but anything can change with no notice, including your complete allocation. If you need something more solid than that, Perhaps you should not be using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ for anything.
For my allocation, I am advertising from Vultr.comhttp://vultr.com/. My own infrastructure that I pay for. Plus I am operating my own DNS and rDNS. I didn’t really need my machines in ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ anyway. Try looking up 44.127.63.1 (in Australia).
— Dave K9DC, K9IP
On Jun 13, 2024, at 13:24, pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Dont worry I read manuals, laws and many more things. What you dont seem to understand is the fact that you are not entitled to anything beside what ARDC board/staff decide. What ever the RFC or whatever else you think might mean something. ARDC have the right to decide to change any information they think should apply to all of the IP space they own.
The only rights you have is to ask politely if they are ok with letting you use a part of it. They have no other obligation to you than to answer yes or no. And even when they say yes, they have no obligation to give you the control over rDNS, or BGP , geolocalisation, or anything else.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 12:24 À : pete M Objet : Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
This is where we (and others, i.e. those who can read manuals) disagree.
No fact of the matter or the infrastructure of the Internet dictates the point of view you've seem to have blindly espoised about ARDC. Read the RFCs.
Further, please don't add specifics of IP space to an already convoluted subject.
Given these discussions seem to go off topic as you have attempted purposely twice - I'll simply refrain from engaging in chat with you.
If this was genuine, Thanks. If not, I'm confused why you would do it.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M petem001@hotmail.com Date: 6/13/24 11:08 (GMT-05:00) To: lleachii@aol.com Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
You are responsible of YOUR station, ARDC grants you the right to TEMPORARY USE some IP address to use for hamradio, those are NOT YOURS same for the setting linked to them.
If you have no clue of the contract you have entered when asking for those IP address, better read them and understand, than thinking you own something and clame what you have no rights to.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 10:31 À : pete M via 44net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
There is no such thing. Maybe you misunderstand what I'm referring to. We are responsible for our own stations during an emergency in the US (hence why ARDC shouldn't mess with MY settings since I may be disconnected from them when discovering it). I assumed this was international at any given moment.
If you have no clue or understanding, you should remain silent in that case. It's easier to be quiet and learn tan to be loud and wrong.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 6/13/24 09:53 (GMT-05:00) To: Amprnet 44 Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Since when is it OK to use 44net for any other use than ham experimentation on that IP address space?
If you use a network for experimentation as a primary link for emergency you miss understood the use of the 44net.
Yes it is appealing to do so. But be aware that this network can and will change over the time. Some stuff will break. Some will cease to exist. And new stuff will appear.
ARDC is not a ISP nor a commercial entity that provide professional services for commercial grade networking. If the network infrastructure you use is primary for life safety, better go the commercial route. If you are a BACKUP in case everything else is gone. That is not the same thing, and the authority dealing with ham should better know about it.
This is my opinion of the situation and note ARDC view. I am not talking for them.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 06:47 À : lleachii@aol.com Cc : Amprnet 44 Net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hello Lynwood,
For the record, I have never made any derogatory remarks to you publicly or in private, you completely misconstrued an offer of help I made for reasons I still do not understand. If you wish to discuss this then I am more than happy to, as I would like to clear up any misunderstandings. Please feel free to contact me off-list as this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.
With regards to the rest of your email, I refer you to Rosy’s email to this list which explains the current situation. I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Kind Regards, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
On 13 Jun 2024, at 11:10, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Chris,
I have logged in and understand that the portal system says "with user".
What I do not understand is this -
* Is there a policy in place? * Will you then proceed to delete these "non callsign" entries once one it is implemented?
You all may not have noticed, but I'm being very particular NOT to agree to new DNS terms, IP record changes, etc. (i.e. stuff that preexisted your control of this domain and space). Before I post the text (since it's quite similar to what I read posted by an ARDC employee), I will not quote it at this time. Please offer clarity (publicly, because you have said some derogatory things to me before in private which you seem uncourageous to say publicly - so I'm uncomfortable) before I proceed.
I also need ARDC to understand that there will be concerns if you then proceed to delete entries I've made very clear I wish to continue use of (as well as my GOVERNMENTAL RACES SPONSOR). I've explained the nature of your inheritance, but somehow - I need to clarify this seemingly contrary policy before I agree.
Please note, my records also show and indicate this "policy" is not because of the numerous amount of DNS records - I will not discuss this further here. Anyone seeing the updates on portal ticket clearing statistics can see that. And if your answer is YES to the latter question above - common sense also provides that you can just as well identify and handle them, as you would need to do so to accomplish that task. Yet, a hassle for records I'm in fact attempting to claim (over and over - obviously I'm making records that I'm clamming them)?
Since I pray common scene now prevails - I simply ask you not hold my records "hostage" in this commercialization game.
Thanks and 73,
Lynwood
KB3VWG
(reviewed by a Sensitivity Expert, please be courageous and secretly report the entire text as a Code of Conduct violation if you desire, including this disclaimer to show your ignorance - yes this portion was reviewed as well)
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 03:17:04 PM EDT, Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
Please check your tickets, I replied 2 day ago, just waiting on your reply.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 12 Jun 2024, at 18:43, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I have not been allowed to make those edits.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 01:36:45 PM EDT, Steve L via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
In my opinion for the purposes of tracking ownership, nonstandard subdomains should only exist via a cname record.
Example of Lynwood (doing it correctly in my opinion)
speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN CNAME kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10
In theory speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/ could have a direct A record.. such as speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10 But that is problematic.
Just my 2 cents.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 12:11 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: Dear 44Net community,
It’s been just over two months since we launched the new Portal. It came with, as you have seen, some major bumps. Today, ARDC is resolving, at least temporarily, one of those hurdles: administrative access to subdomains.
As of today, anyone who had a subdomain with ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ before the launch of the new Portal on April 3, 2024, will, for now, have full access to their DNS records. This includes subdomains that fall outside of our preferred format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/.
This administrative access still depends on call sign verification, which requires confirming given name, family name, email, and valid amateur radio license. This step helps us ensure that the network is being used by valid amateur radio operators. During our recent work, we’ve found several bad actors, which is both unfair to the community and a security risk.
We’ve also made a functional change to the portal: once a call sign is verified, you are now automatically able to create a subdomain with the format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/. All other new requests for subdomains that fall outside of that format (e.g., foo.ampr.orghttp://foo.ampr.org/, which I’ll refer to as nonstandard subdomains for brevity) will require review and approval.
Please note that we will be limiting the number of nonstandard subdomains going forward. Thus, if you have one (or, in some cases, many more), please consider it temporary. You can currently create as many second-level subdomains as you want—e.g., foo.callsign.ampr.orghttp://foo.callsign.ampr.org/, bar.callsign.ampr.orghttp://bar.callsign.ampr.org/, etc.
We are working on a more official policy around subdomains using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/. As promised at the recent regional coordinators' meeting, we will ensure you can see this policy before officially implementing it. We will also provide a transition period, likely many months, for users to edit their entries before official deprecation. This is, ultimately, what we should have done initially, and we take responsibility for not following a better process and, instead, rolling out this change without taking proper preparatory steps.
Some of you may be wondering why we are making this change in the first place. It is because, without doing so, we end up in our current and very unwieldy situation: a database of over 51,000 DNS entries, most without knowledge of who they belong to, accumulated over at least a decade, with very few entries currently in use. If we aim to increase the usage of 44Net, then we need a system where we understand ownership and are able to provide an efficient service where we can address problems as they arise.
For now, we hope that this helps to unblock anyone that currently feels blocked, while also providing an ample notice for changes that are coming down the pipeline at a later, though likely not-so-distant date.
If you have questions, please ask.
Many thanks, Rosy
-- Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.nethttp://ardc.net/ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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Pete,
It's 100% clear you're trying to be some agent provocateur, or you're just poor at reading. Someone else responded to another topic about something you may be confusing for this one. Nobody is talking about some "licence and right to use some frequency" being at play, nor did I. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt - but please stop polluting the " subdomains" topic.
- KB3VWG
On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 03:56:42 PM EDT, pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Your licence and right to use some frequency is not at play here.
Obtenir Outlook pour AndroidFrom: lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 2:49:51 PM To: pete M petem001@hotmail.com; Dave Gingrich dave@dcg.us Cc: 44net@mailman.ampr.org 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains Dave,
I appreciate your response. But again, I still choose not to change the topic.
I think you also forgot about my infrastructure and that of my sponsor (i.e. radio towers I mentioned for actual amateur use and access). It does indeed seem ARDC doesn't welcome amateur use, aside from these different fanciful descriptions everyone seems to have, just different from mine and others. Nonetheless, just know in our region, regardless of DNS or IP, we'll welcome all those who have a a licence (in the US Technician Class would cover it and the bands used) and have the equipment. Just seems there's another way to connect to 44net (maybe Wireguard). Just recall, that will be blocked here - you cannot obscure the meaning of a packet on licensed bands (I hope this is starting to make sense to some).
- Lynwood
On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 02:24:10 PM EDT, Dave Gingrich via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Not only that, but anything can change with no notice, including your complete allocation. If you need something more solid than that, Perhaps you should not be usingampr.org for anything. For my allocation, I am advertising from Vultr.com. My own infrastructure that I pay for. Plus I am operating my own DNS and rDNS. I didn’t really need my machines inampr.org anyway. Try looking up 44.127.63.1 (in Australia).
— Dave K9DC, K9IP
On Jun 13, 2024, at 13:24, pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote: Dont worry I read manuals, laws and many more things. What you dont seem to understand is the fact that you are not entitled to anything beside what ARDC board/staff decide. What ever the RFC or whatever else you think might mean something. ARDC have the right to decide to change any information they think should apply to all of the IP space they own.
The only rights you have is to ask politely if they are ok with letting you use a part of it. They have no other obligation to you than to answer yes or no. And even when they say yes, they have no obligation to give you the control over rDNS, or BGP , geolocalisation, or anything else.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 12:24 À : pete M Objet : Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
This is where we (and others, i.e. those who can read manuals) disagree.
No fact of the matter or the infrastructure of the Internet dictates the point of view you've seem to have blindly espoised about ARDC. Read the RFCs.
Further, please don't add specifics of IP space to an already convoluted subject.
Given these discussions seem to go off topic as you have attempted purposely twice - I'll simply refrain from engaging in chat with you.
If this was genuine, Thanks. If not, I'm confused why you would do it.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M petem001@hotmail.com Date: 6/13/24 11:08 (GMT-05:00) To: lleachii@aol.com Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
You are responsible of YOUR station, ARDC grants you the right to TEMPORARY USE some IP address to use for hamradio, those are NOT YOURS same for the setting linked to them.
If you have no clue of the contract you have entered when asking for those IP address, better read them and understand, than thinking you own something and clame what you have no rights to.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 10:31 À : pete M via 44net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
There is no such thing. Maybe you misunderstand what I'm referring to. We are responsible for our own stations during an emergency in the US (hence why ARDC shouldn't mess with MY settings since I may be disconnected from them when discovering it). I assumed this was international at any given moment.
If you have no clue or understanding, you should remain silent in that case. It's easier to be quiet and learn tan to be loud and wrong.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 6/13/24 09:53 (GMT-05:00) To: Amprnet 44 Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Since when is it OK to use 44net for any other use than ham experimentation on that IP address space?
If you use a network for experimentation as a primary link for emergency you miss understood the use of the 44net.
Yes it is appealing to do so. But be aware that this network can and will change over the time. Some stuff will break. Some will cease to exist. And new stuff will appear.
ARDC is not a ISP nor a commercial entity that provide professional services for commercial grade networking. If the network infrastructure you use is primary for life safety, better go the commercial route. If you are a BACKUP in case everything else is gone. That is not the same thing, and the authority dealing with ham should better know about it.
This is my opinion of the situation and note ARDC view. I am not talking for them.
Pierre
VE2PF
________________________________________ De : Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 06:47 À : lleachii@aol.com Cc : Amprnet 44 Net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hello Lynwood,
For the record, I have never made any derogatory remarks to you publicly or in private, you completely misconstrued an offer of help I made for reasons I still do not understand. If you wish to discuss this then I am more than happy to, as I would like to clear up any misunderstandings. Please feel free to contact me off-list as this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.
With regards to the rest of your email, I refer you to Rosy’s email to this list which explains the current situation. I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Kind Regards, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
On 13 Jun 2024, at 11:10, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Chris,
I have logged in and understand that the portal system says "with user".
What I do not understand is this -
* Is there a policy in place? * Will you then proceed to delete these "non callsign" entries once one it is implemented?
You all may not have noticed, but I'm being very particular NOT to agree to new DNS terms, IP record changes, etc. (i.e. stuff that preexisted your control of this domain and space). Before I post the text (since it's quite similar to what I read posted by an ARDC employee), I will not quote it at this time. Please offer clarity (publicly, because you have said some derogatory things to me before in private which you seem uncourageous to say publicly - so I'm uncomfortable) before I proceed.
I also need ARDC to understand that there will be concerns if you then proceed to delete entries I've made very clear I wish to continue use of (as well as my GOVERNMENTAL RACES SPONSOR). I've explained the nature of your inheritance, but somehow - I need to clarify this seemingly contrary policy before I agree.
Please note, my records also show and indicate this "policy" is not because of the numerous amount of DNS records - I will not discuss this further here. Anyone seeing the updates on portal ticket clearing statistics can see that. And if your answer is YES to the latter question above - common sense also provides that you can just as well identify and handle them, as you would need to do so to accomplish that task. Yet, a hassle for records I'm in fact attempting to claim (over and over - obviously I'm making records that I'm clamming them)?
Since I pray common scene now prevails - I simply ask you not hold my records "hostage" in this commercialization game.
Thanks and 73,
Lynwood
KB3VWG
(reviewed by a Sensitivity Expert, please be courageous and secretly report the entire text as a Code of Conduct violation if you desire, including this disclaimer to show your ignorance - yes this portion was reviewed as well)
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 03:17:04 PM EDT, Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
Please check your tickets, I replied 2 day ago, just waiting on your reply.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 12 Jun 2024, at 18:43, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I have not been allowed to make those edits.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 01:36:45 PM EDT, Steve L via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
In my opinion for the purposes of tracking ownership, nonstandard subdomains should only exist via a cname record.
Example of Lynwood (doing it correctly in my opinion)
speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN CNAME kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10
In theory speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/ could have a direct A record.. such as speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10 But that is problematic.
Just my 2 cents.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 12:11 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: Dear 44Net community,
It’s been just over two months since we launched the new Portal. It came with, as you have seen, some major bumps. Today, ARDC is resolving, at least temporarily, one of those hurdles: administrative access to subdomains.
As of today, anyone who had a subdomain with ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ before the launch of the new Portal on April 3, 2024, will, for now, have full access to their DNS records. This includes subdomains that fall outside of our preferred format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/.
This administrative access still depends on call sign verification, which requires confirming given name, family name, email, and valid amateur radio license. This step helps us ensure that the network is being used by valid amateur radio operators. During our recent work, we’ve found several bad actors, which is both unfair to the community and a security risk.
We’ve also made a functional change to the portal: once a call sign is verified, you are now automatically able to create a subdomain with the format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/. All other new requests for subdomains that fall outside of that format (e.g., foo.ampr.orghttp://foo.ampr.org/, which I’ll refer to as nonstandard subdomains for brevity) will require review and approval.
Please note that we will be limiting the number of nonstandard subdomains going forward. Thus, if you have one (or, in some cases, many more), please consider it temporary. You can currently create as many second-level subdomains as you want—e.g., foo.callsign.ampr.orghttp://foo.callsign.ampr.org/, bar.callsign.ampr.orghttp://bar.callsign.ampr.org/, etc.
We are working on a more official policy around subdomains using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/. As promised at the recent regional coordinators' meeting, we will ensure you can see this policy before officially implementing it. We will also provide a transition period, likely many months, for users to edit their entries before official deprecation. This is, ultimately, what we should have done initially, and we take responsibility for not following a better process and, instead, rolling out this change without taking proper preparatory steps.
Some of you may be wondering why we are making this change in the first place. It is because, without doing so, we end up in our current and very unwieldy situation: a database of over 51,000 DNS entries, most without knowledge of who they belong to, accumulated over at least a decade, with very few entries currently in use. If we aim to increase the usage of 44Net, then we need a system where we understand ownership and are able to provide an efficient service where we can address problems as they arise.
For now, we hope that this helps to unblock anyone that currently feels blocked, while also providing an ample notice for changes that are coming down the pipeline at a later, though likely not-so-distant date.
If you have questions, please ask.
Many thanks, Rosy
-- Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.nethttp://ardc.net/ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Hey everyone,
Responding to some of the technical feedback and policy questions received on this thread, and also want to speak to some of the unproductive behavior that I'm seeing on this list.
re: technical feedback:
* Adding more information to the ticket emails is a great idea. Putting in a feature request on our end.
re: policies and related items:
* the 44Net address space is and has always been experimental, as stated in our terms of service. It was never, as far as I've known, designed for critical infrastructure, and it's not managed that way.
* We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
re: unproductive language and behavior on the mailing list.
* A reminder to please refrain from using derogatory phrasing (e.g. calling someone incompetent) as you communicate about your complaints regarding these changes, as well as behavior that could be considered trolling. I appreciate those of you who have spoken up and shared your questions in a respectful nature.
Many thanks, Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.net
On 6/13/24 1:24 PM, pete M via 44net wrote:
Dont worry I read manuals, laws and many more things. What you dont seem to understand is the fact that you are not entitled to anything beside what ARDC board/staff decide. What ever the RFC or whatever else you think might mean something. ARDC have the right to decide to change any information they think should apply to all of the IP space they own.
The only rights you have is to ask politely if they are ok with letting you use a part of it. They have no other obligation to you than to answer yes or no. And even when they say yes, they have no obligation to give you the control over rDNS, or BGP , geolocalisation, or anything else.
Pierre
VE2PF
De : lleachii@aol.com lleachii@aol.com Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 12:24 À : pete M Objet : Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
This is where we (and others, i.e. those who can read manuals) disagree.
No fact of the matter or the infrastructure of the Internet dictates the point of view you've seem to have blindly espoised about ARDC. Read the RFCs.
Further, please don't add specifics of IP space to an already convoluted subject.
Given these discussions seem to go off topic as you have attempted purposely twice - I'll simply refrain from engaging in chat with you.
If this was genuine, Thanks. If not, I'm confused why you would do it.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M petem001@hotmail.com Date: 6/13/24 11:08 (GMT-05:00) To: lleachii@aol.com Subject: Re: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
You are responsible of YOUR station, ARDC grants you the right to TEMPORARY USE some IP address to use for hamradio, those are NOT YOURS same for the setting linked to them.
If you have no clue of the contract you have entered when asking for those IP address, better read them and understand, than thinking you own something and clame what you have no rights to.
Pierre
VE2PF
De : lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 10:31 À : pete M via 44net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
There is no such thing. Maybe you misunderstand what I'm referring to. We are responsible for our own stations during an emergency in the US (hence why ARDC shouldn't mess with MY settings since I may be disconnected from them when discovering it). I assumed this was international at any given moment.
If you have no clue or understanding, you should remain silent in that case. It's easier to be quiet and learn tan to be loud and wrong.
-------- Original message -------- From: pete M via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 6/13/24 09:53 (GMT-05:00) To: Amprnet 44 Net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Since when is it OK to use 44net for any other use than ham experimentation on that IP address space?
If you use a network for experimentation as a primary link for emergency you miss understood the use of the 44net.
Yes it is appealing to do so. But be aware that this network can and will change over the time. Some stuff will break. Some will cease to exist. And new stuff will appear.
ARDC is not a ISP nor a commercial entity that provide professional services for commercial grade networking. If the network infrastructure you use is primary for life safety, better go the commercial route. If you are a BACKUP in case everything else is gone. That is not the same thing, and the authority dealing with ham should better know about it.
This is my opinion of the situation and note ARDC view. I am not talking for them.
Pierre
VE2PF
De : Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Envoyé : 13 juin 2024 06:47 À : lleachii@aol.com Cc : Amprnet 44 Net Objet : [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hello Lynwood,
For the record, I have never made any derogatory remarks to you publicly or in private, you completely misconstrued an offer of help I made for reasons I still do not understand. If you wish to discuss this then I am more than happy to, as I would like to clear up any misunderstandings. Please feel free to contact me off-list as this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.
With regards to the rest of your email, I refer you to Rosy’s email to this list which explains the current situation. I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Kind Regards, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
On 13 Jun 2024, at 11:10, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Chris,
I have logged in and understand that the portal system says "with user".
What I do not understand is this -
- Is there a policy in place?
- Will you then proceed to delete these "non callsign" entries once one it is implemented?
You all may not have noticed, but I'm being very particular NOT to agree to new DNS terms, IP record changes, etc. (i.e. stuff that preexisted your control of this domain and space). Before I post the text (since it's quite similar to what I read posted by an ARDC employee), I will not quote it at this time. Please offer clarity (publicly, because you have said some derogatory things to me before in private which you seem uncourageous to say publicly - so I'm uncomfortable) before I proceed.
I also need ARDC to understand that there will be concerns if you then proceed to delete entries I've made very clear I wish to continue use of (as well as my GOVERNMENTAL RACES SPONSOR). I've explained the nature of your inheritance, but somehow - I need to clarify this seemingly contrary policy before I agree.
Please note, my records also show and indicate this "policy" is not because of the numerous amount of DNS records - I will not discuss this further here. Anyone seeing the updates on portal ticket clearing statistics can see that. And if your answer is YES to the latter question above - common sense also provides that you can just as well identify and handle them, as you would need to do so to accomplish that task. Yet, a hassle for records I'm in fact attempting to claim (over and over - obviously I'm making records that I'm clamming them)?
Since I pray common scene now prevails - I simply ask you not hold my records "hostage" in this commercialization game.
Thanks and 73,
Lynwood
KB3VWG
(reviewed by a Sensitivity Expert, please be courageous and secretly report the entire text as a Code of Conduct violation if you desire, including this disclaimer to show your ignorance - yes this portion was reviewed as well)
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 03:17:04 PM EDT, Chris via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Lynwood,
Please check your tickets, I replied 2 day ago, just waiting on your reply.
73, Chris - G1FEF
On 12 Jun 2024, at 18:43, lleachii--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I have not been allowed to make those edits.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 01:36:45 PM EDT, Steve L via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
In my opinion for the purposes of tracking ownership, nonstandard subdomains should only exist via a cname record.
Example of Lynwood (doing it correctly in my opinion)
speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN CNAME kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. kb3vwg-010.ampr.orghttp://kb3vwg-010.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10
In theory speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/ could have a direct A record.. such as speedtest.ampr.orghttp://speedtest.ampr.org/. 300 IN A 44.60.44.10 But that is problematic.
Just my 2 cents.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 12:11 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote: Dear 44Net community,
It’s been just over two months since we launched the new Portal. It came with, as you have seen, some major bumps. Today, ARDC is resolving, at least temporarily, one of those hurdles: administrative access to subdomains.
As of today, anyone who had a subdomain with ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/ before the launch of the new Portal on April 3, 2024, will, for now, have full access to their DNS records. This includes subdomains that fall outside of our preferred format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/.
This administrative access still depends on call sign verification, which requires confirming given name, family name, email, and valid amateur radio license. This step helps us ensure that the network is being used by valid amateur radio operators. During our recent work, we’ve found several bad actors, which is both unfair to the community and a security risk.
We’ve also made a functional change to the portal: once a call sign is verified, you are now automatically able to create a subdomain with the format of callsign.ampr.orghttp://callsign.ampr.org/. All other new requests for subdomains that fall outside of that format (e.g., foo.ampr.orghttp://foo.ampr.org/, which I’ll refer to as nonstandard subdomains for brevity) will require review and approval.
Please note that we will be limiting the number of nonstandard subdomains going forward. Thus, if you have one (or, in some cases, many more), please consider it temporary. You can currently create as many second-level subdomains as you want—e.g., foo.callsign.ampr.orghttp://foo.callsign.ampr.org/, bar.callsign.ampr.orghttp://bar.callsign.ampr.org/, etc.
We are working on a more official policy around subdomains using ampr.orghttp://ampr.org/. As promised at the recent regional coordinators' meeting, we will ensure you can see this policy before officially implementing it. We will also provide a transition period, likely many months, for users to edit their entries before official deprecation. This is, ultimately, what we should have done initially, and we take responsibility for not following a better process and, instead, rolling out this change without taking proper preparatory steps.
Some of you may be wondering why we are making this change in the first place. It is because, without doing so, we end up in our current and very unwieldy situation: a database of over 51,000 DNS entries, most without knowledge of who they belong to, accumulated over at least a decade, with very few entries currently in use. If we aim to increase the usage of 44Net, then we need a system where we understand ownership and are able to provide an efficient service where we can address problems as they arise.
For now, we hope that this helps to unblock anyone that currently feels blocked, while also providing an ample notice for changes that are coming down the pipeline at a later, though likely not-so-distant date.
If you have questions, please ask.
Many thanks, Rosy
-- Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.nethttp://ardc.net/ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017). And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
Thanks Dan,
You've expressed my concern extremely well. I suspect there are many clubs, and will be many more that will desire a 44net allocation / callsign.ampr.org subdomain. Once suggestion, since club callsigns are managed by a club trustee, should that be the designated POC for these relationships?
73
Bill Buhler - AF7SJ
On 6/13/2024 2:40 PM, Dan Cross via 44net wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017). And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
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On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 6:03 PM Bill Buhler via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Thanks Dan,
You've expressed my concern extremely well.
Thanks, Bill. That's very kind of you to say.
I suspect there are many clubs, and will be many more that will desire a 44net allocation / callsign.ampr.org subdomain.
Indeed. I'm surprised this hasn't come up already, honestly. AMPRNet is a bit of an undiscovered jewel in that regard, and could probably use some advertising; I wonder if someone would consider writing an article for QST or RADCOM or a similar publication to get some exposure.
Once suggestion, since club callsigns are managed by a club trustee, should that be the designated POC for these relationships?
This is just my opinion, but I think the short answer is "yes, but with delegation authority."
In my club, for instance, I've been the one pushing the idea of getting an allocation; I pitched it at the last meeting and got told, "great; go off and do it!" I did confirm with the callsign trustee that he was ok with me acting on the club's behalf, under the club's callsign, for this purpose. Further, he's perfectly willing to give me documentation of some kind or another that would make it clear that the club has authorized me to act on its behalf. But I also kind of got the impression that, since I'm the one singing AMPRNet's praises, it would be much preferred if I were the person doing the actual legwork. That is, I don't think other folks in the club want to spend a lot of time creating accounts on the portal, etc; they'd just prefer that I do that on the club's behalf. So while everything I'm doing is on the up-and-up, the largesse of the club (and the other members' time) only extends so far.
I imagine that sort of situation is pretty common: someone gets excited about doing something cool with AMPRNet, and gets their club to give the go ahead, but with the caveat that they do the work. Forcing that onto the trustee may prove to be a limiting factor in that regard.
Again, this could all be helped with some support in the portal, but before that, we need a clear policy. And hopefully it will have some community input.
- Dan C.
On 6/13/2024 2:40 PM, Dan Cross via 44net wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017). And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
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Your explanation / desire for delegation sounds perfect to me. It ensures that the trustee has authorized usage of the call sign, but doesn't burden them with additional work if they can find someone else to do the work.
There was a separate comment from Eric AE0JE, commenting that a lot of trustees don't have the technical chops for this. I see his concern, but could it be mitigated with the following?
ARDC could provide a call sign authority delegation PDF file that can be filled out and signed by the club call sign trustee. This document would state that a particular person is the designated ARDC delegate for the club and is authorized to utilize the club call sign in the ARDC related systems. This would then be submitted back into the portal as a scan / upload by the ARDC delegate. Call it a Call Sign LOA, similar to the routing LOAs we use to delegate portions of BGP allocations and assure the appropriate parties that the usage is approved.
What do you think Eric?
I hope this is helpful.
73
Bill Buhler - AF7SJ
Of course this is also only necessary for a group.
On 6/13/2024 5:34 PM, Dan Cross via 44net wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 6:03 PM Bill Buhler via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Thanks Dan,
You've expressed my concern extremely well.
Thanks, Bill. That's very kind of you to say.
I suspect there are many clubs, and will be many more that will desire a 44net allocation / callsign.ampr.org subdomain.
Indeed. I'm surprised this hasn't come up already, honestly. AMPRNet is a bit of an undiscovered jewel in that regard, and could probably use some advertising; I wonder if someone would consider writing an article for QST or RADCOM or a similar publication to get some exposure.
Once suggestion, since club callsigns are managed by a club trustee, should that be the designated POC for these relationships?
This is just my opinion, but I think the short answer is "yes, but with delegation authority."
In my club, for instance, I've been the one pushing the idea of getting an allocation; I pitched it at the last meeting and got told, "great; go off and do it!" I did confirm with the callsign trustee that he was ok with me acting on the club's behalf, under the club's callsign, for this purpose. Further, he's perfectly willing to give me documentation of some kind or another that would make it clear that the club has authorized me to act on its behalf. But I also kind of got the impression that, since I'm the one singing AMPRNet's praises, it would be much preferred if I were the person doing the actual legwork. That is, I don't think other folks in the club want to spend a lot of time creating accounts on the portal, etc; they'd just prefer that I do that on the club's behalf. So while everything I'm doing is on the up-and-up, the largesse of the club (and the other members' time) only extends so far.
I imagine that sort of situation is pretty common: someone gets excited about doing something cool with AMPRNet, and gets their club to give the go ahead, but with the caveat that they do the work. Forcing that onto the trustee may prove to be a limiting factor in that regard.
Again, this could all be helped with some support in the portal, but before that, we need a clear policy. And hopefully it will have some community input.
- Dan C.On 6/13/2024 2:40 PM, Dan Cross via 44net wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017). And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
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Very good point, and having that "something" be a document vetted by ARDC Legal would also likely be good.
-Jason / W6WUF
(trimmed quote)
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 18:36 Bill Buhler via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
ARDC could provide a call sign authority delegation PDF file that can be filled out and signed by the club call sign trustee. This document would state that a particular person is the designated ARDC delegate for the club and is authorized to utilize the club call sign in the ARDC related systems. This would then be submitted back into the portal as a scan / upload by the ARDC delegate. Call it a Call Sign LOA, similar to the routing LOAs we use to delegate portions of BGP allocations and assure the appropriate parties that the usage is approved.
Bill Buhler - AF7SJ
This thread seems to have got a bit off topic from “subdomains” but to respond to some of the points brought up:
1. Having call signs “owned” by an organisation on the portal is not a scenario we envisaged during the design phase. However, it is a very good point and has now been added to the feature request list as a high priority.
2. In relation to point 1. How do we vet the person requesting access to use an organisation’s call sign? This is really only an issue for US based clubs as the call sign has a trustee listed on the ULS database, but it would seem, that person is not always able/willing/interested in creating an account on the portal to have the call sign verified. This certainly needs more thought.
The ideal situation would be for the trustee to create an account on the portal, verify the call sign, then hand it off to another member in the organisation, i.e. once setup they do not have to be the POC for the call sign - is this really asking too much of someone who has already agreed to be the trustee, which arguably comes with such responsibilities?
3. The subdomain policy that is in progress currently will definitely include a workflow for non-standard subdomain formats. I expect (although bear in mind the policy has not been agreed upon yet, so is subject to change) that the policy will state that the preferred subdomain format will be callsign.ampr.org http://callsign.ampr.org/ and that anything else will be considered on a case by case basis.
The portal will currently automatically approve (and create) a subdomain based on the callsign.ampr.org http://callsign.ampr.org/ format, provided that “callsign” is one of your own call signs that has been verified. Any other subdomain request will create a ticket for manual processing.
If anyone wants to respond to any of the above points, please can they create a new thread with an appropriate subject as this one is getting very mixed up!
Thanks & 73, Chris - G1FEF — ARDC Administrator
Web: https://www.ardc.net
On 14 Jun 2024, at 07:09, Jason Mills via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Very good point, and having that "something" be a document vetted by ARDC Legal would also likely be good.
-Jason / W6WUF
(trimmed quote)
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 18:36 Bill Buhler via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
ARDC could provide a call sign authority delegation PDF file that can be filled out and signed by the club call sign trustee. This document would state that a particular person is the designated ARDC delegate for the club and is authorized to utilize the club call sign in the ARDC related systems. This would then be submitted back into the portal as a scan / upload by the ARDC delegate. Call it a Call Sign LOA, similar to the routing LOAs we use to delegate portions of BGP allocations and assure the appropriate parties that the usage is approved.
Bill Buhler - AF7SJ _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Bill,
I am strongly opposed to enforcing the License trustee as the POC for 44net matters. For example, in my club, our president is also our trustee, but does not have the interest or technical knowledge to handle 44net matters. In the past and present, I have been the POC for 44net matters, as I lead the development of our infrastructure and networks. Many other platforms enforce that our trustee must be the POC, which causes me tons of headaches and unnecessary delays, and inconveniences the trustee.
At the very most, using QRZ as an example since ARDC has a track record of using them for verification, I would suggest sending an email to the QRZ email address asking to verify that the named person is authorized to act on behalf of the club with respect to 44net. From that point on, the named person should become the POC for the club. In my case, our club email address is a shared mailbox between all of the officers, so handling such a verification measure would be easy.
I appreciate any other input.
Eric AE0JE
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 6:03 PM Bill Buhler via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Thanks Dan,
You've expressed my concern extremely well. I suspect there are many clubs, and will be many more that will desire a 44net allocation / callsign.ampr.org subdomain. Once suggestion, since club callsigns are managed by a club trustee, should that be the designated POC for these relationships?
73
Bill Buhler - AF7SJ
On 6/13/2024 2:40 PM, Dan Cross via 44net wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC:
https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017).
And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
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Le 14/06/2024 à 01:42, Eric Johnson via 44net a écrit :
I am strongly opposed to enforcing the License trustee as the POC for 44net matters. For example, in my club, our president is also our trustee, but does not have the interest or technical knowledge to handle 44net matters.
It seems obvious to me that the person requesting the IPs is a radio amateur. If the person doesn't have the skills, there's nothing to stop them from delegating...
Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG. http://f5pbg.free.fr
Hi Dan,
Yes, this is a use case that is definitely being taken into account. Thank you for bringing it up.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.net
On 6/13/24 4:40 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017). And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
We could just copy how ARIN does their POC records, works pretty good for those of us with allocations from them. ________________________________ From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 6:43:30 PM To: Dan Cross crossd@gmail.com Cc: 44net@mailman.ampr.org 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Update re: subdomains
Hi Dan,
Yes, this is a use case that is definitely being taken into account. Thank you for bringing it up.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.net
On 6/13/24 4:40 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017). And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Hi Rosy
Is the use case implementation still in the works or is it available now? Could you summarize how it will work?
-- Dave
Sent from my mobile...
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 5:43 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi Dan,
Yes, this is a use case that is definitely being taken into account. Thank you for bringing it up.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ardc.net
On 6/13/24 4:40 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 4:31 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
[snip]
- We are in fact coming out with a policy re: subdomains, and it will
likely be as described in the email sent out earlier this week.
In this case, I'd like to reiterate my request that this policy formally take into account non-individual organizations such as amateur radio clubs. These organizations can be, and often are, assigned call signs by various licensing authorities (for example, the Boston Amateur Radio Club, BARC, has been assigned W1BOS in the US by the FCC:
https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=781017).
And while certain individuals may be designated by those organizations to liaise with e.g. ARDC for requesting IP address allocations an so on, the organizations themselves are not individuals, and right now there's a gap in the policy and infrastructure spaces for how such things are handled. I know this was not an envisioned use case, but it _is_ something that is going to come up.
- Dan C.
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Le 13/06/2024 à 22:31, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net a écrit :
A reminder to please refrain from using derogatory phrasing (e.g. calling someone incompetent) as you communicate about your complaints regarding these changes, as well as behavior that could be considered trolling. I appreciate those of you who have spoken up and shared your questions in a respectful nature.
But the reverse is not true.
So thank you to all those who work for this network, even if at the moment I'm having a bit of trouble finding the IP 44.151 management...
Anyway, there's no hurry, it's an experimental network.
😉
Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG https://www.youtube.com/@F5PBG/streams (sorry in french...)
Indeed. Because I now realize in your quote - she's was referencing a private email she was not privileged to. Yet she emailed me to say she has been reluctant to contact me up until 13 JUN, because someone had shared information involving her. Wow - I trusted her communication with me and respected she wouldn't do the same. Please - feel free to address me personally on these matters.
- KB3VWG
On Friday, June 14, 2024 at 01:53:32 AM EDT, f5pbg--- via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Le 13/06/2024 à 22:31, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net a écrit :
A reminder to please refrain from using derogatory phrasing (e.g. calling someone incompetent) as you communicate about your complaints regarding these changes, as well as behavior that could be considered trolling. I appreciate those of you who have spoken up and shared your questions in a respectful nature.
But the reverse is not true.
So thank you to all those who work for this network, even if at the moment I'm having a bit of trouble finding the IP 44.151 management...
Anyway, there's no hurry, it's an experimental network.
😉
Best regards, Ludovic - F5PBG https://www.youtube.com/@F5PBG/streams (sorry in french...) _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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