21 Apr
2022
21 Apr
'22
9:06 a.m.
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came
back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so
Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However,
the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list
software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list
often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time
the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1
to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new
server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we
migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated
over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send
emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we
had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has
provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by
acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
21 Apr
21 Apr
10:50 a.m.
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email
reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that
quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end
up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an
ARDC.NET DKIM key rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot.
The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing
list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had
corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the
list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days
and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were
of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now
unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken
to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3
server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should
continue to send emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the
mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server,
with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community.
John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net
mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
10:55 a.m.
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the
web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my
password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with
regard to email
reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that
quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end
up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key
rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected
reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the
mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor
our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had
corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the
list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few
days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups
were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now
unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken
to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3
server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should
continue to send emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the
mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server,
with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community.
John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net
mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
11:02 a.m.
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The
password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail
address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am
unable to login via
the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to
reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do,
with regard to email
reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that
quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end
up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key
rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected
reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the
mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor
our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had
corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the
list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few
days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups
were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now
unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken
to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3
server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should
continue to send emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the
mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server,
with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community.
John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net
mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
11:17 a.m.
New subject: Mailman login (was Mailman migration)
On 4/21/22 11:02 AM, Mike Tindor via 44net wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to
mailman. The
password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail
address is not assigned to any user account ")
You need to make an account first, then confirm your email. I did this and
can see my subscription.
mm3 is different in that you have one account for the server and it can see
all your subscriptions on the lists of that server.
--
Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net
11:22 a.m.
New subject: Mailman login (was Mailman migration)
Thanks, Bryan. That worked for me.
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:17 AM Bryan Fields via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/22 11:02 AM, Mike Tindor via 44net wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging
in to mailman. The
password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail
address is not assigned to any user account ")
You need to make an account first, then confirm your email. I did this and
can see my subscription.
mm3 is different in that you have one account for the server and it can see
all your subscriptions on the lists of that server.
--
Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
11:25 a.m.
New subject: Mailman login (was Mailman migration)
That worked.
I suspect many others were set to receive a digest and are now
receiving every email...
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:17 AM Bryan Fields via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/22 11:02 AM, Mike Tindor via 44net wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging
in to mailman. The
password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail
address is not assigned to any user account ")
You need to make an account first, then confirm your email. I did this and
can see my subscription.
mm3 is different in that you have one account for the server and it can see
all your subscriptions on the lists of that server.
--
Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
12 May
12 May
11:38 a.m.
New subject: Mailman login (was Mailman migration)
On 4/21/2022 11:17 AM, Bryan Fields via 44net wrote:
mm3 is different
Yes, it's very definitely different: overwhelmingly so, in my case. If
anyone on here can do so, please tell me where to find documentation
about the differences between Mailman, Mailman 2, and Mailman 3. I'm
especially interested in finding out what advantages the later releases
offer compared to the former, and sources of HOWTO info for hams like me
whom are not yet acquainted with the latest open-source environments.
Thank you for your help.
73,
Bill, W4EWH
12:11 p.m.
New subject: Mailman login (was Mailman migration)
Bill,
You can check out the Mailman website, I'm not sure that they give a very
clear breakdown of features gained over the lifecycle of development.
However, https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Home does have something similar, just
not sure if it will give you a net gain of all new features.
Hope this helps!
Stay well!
_________________________
Ronnie Montgomery (WØrdm)
Missouri AMPRnet Coordinator <https://mo.ampr.org>
𝜋.666.4.999 <//3146664999> | rdm(a)rdm.io
https://mo.ampr.org
On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 10:39 AM E. William Horne via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/2022 11:17 AM, Bryan Fields via 44net wrote:
mm3 is different
Yes, it's very definitely different: overwhelmingly so, in my case. If
anyone on here can do so, please tell me where to find documentation
about the differences between Mailman, Mailman 2, and Mailman 3. I'm
especially interested in finding out what advantages the later releases
offer compared to the former, and sources of HOWTO info for hams like me
whom are not yet acquainted with the latest open-source environments.
Thank you for your help.
73,
Bill, W4EWH
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
1:03 p.m.
New subject: Mailman login (was Mailman migration)
On Thu, 2022-05-12 at 11:38 -0400, E. William Horne via 44net wrote:
On 4/21/2022 11:17 AM, Bryan Fields via 44net wrote:
Here's my $.02
I worked very diligently on providing updates and code that made MM2
better, and you can find my name in the MM2 NEWS release file. I've
operated MM2 lists for over 20 years now so I feel that I have a good
idea on the state of MM. MM3 actually started development 12+ years ago
when Barry Warsaw was hired by Canonical (Ubuntu) to make MM3 work for a
large organization with multiple levels of mailinglists. Barry's work
eventually turned into what we know as MM3 today, even though Barry is
no longer involved. Bits of MM2 backend configuration made it's way
into MM3 via work done by Mark Sapiro. However the MM3 frontend(s) is
wholly new.
The problem(s) that I have with the way MM3 works is that it's great and
scalable for very large organizations where there are many users who are
on many different lists. That said, MM3 sucks (imho) for single lists
like this one and the ones I operate. Even today, I feel that MM3 is
still evolving and having growing pains whereas MM2 still just works
well (yes, even with fully supported python2 from Ubuntu, Debian,
Redhat, etc). Python2 is fully supported on Ubuntu Focal (20.04) until
2025.
You can find the complete MM3 docs here:
https://readthedocs.org/projects/mailman/
I don't know which version of MM3 AMPR runs, so I can't point you do the
specific version of docs.
I'm happy to help with any MM2 questions.
73,
-Jim P.
mm3 is different
Yes, it's very definitely different: overwhelmingly so, in my case. If
anyone on here can do so, please tell me where to find documentation
about the differences between Mailman, Mailman 2, and Mailman 3. I'm
especially interested in finding out what advantages the later releases
offer compared to the former, and sources of HOWTO info for hams like me
whom are not yet acquainted with the latest open-source environments. 
21 Apr
21 Apr
8:44 p.m.
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups or
Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to
mailman. The
password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail
address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I
am unable to login via
the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to
reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
44net mailing list --
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
Looks like there might be a little more to do,
with regard to email
reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that
quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end
up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key
rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected
reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the
mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor
our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had
corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the
list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few
days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups
were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now
unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken
to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3
server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you
should continue to send emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org to post to
the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the
mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server,
with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community.
John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net
mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
8:53 p.m.
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred
over, but not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> emails
are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all
the services associated with the mailing list continued
to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden
reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often
goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only
set to a few days and by the time the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman
3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it
has provided excellent service to the community. John is
going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the
44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
9:03 p.m.
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email.
So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our
inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home
mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred
over, but not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> emails
are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all
the services associated with the mailing list continued
to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden
reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often
goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only
set to a few days and by the time the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman
3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it
has provided excellent service to the community. John is
going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the
44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
9:08 p.m.
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email,
and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web
message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it
really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and
leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body
for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not
email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just
having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an
inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if
anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all
failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <
http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>
emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key
rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last
week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all
the services associated with the mailing list continued
to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden
reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often
goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only
set to a few days and by the time the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman
3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/&g…
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it
has provided excellent service to the community. John is
going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the
44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
9:12 p.m.
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do
NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like
email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a
web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email,
it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the
shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a
peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>>
Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but
not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate
and, even if I try to
perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google
Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a
Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>
<mailto:jon@anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with
regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they
ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC
all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET
<http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server
last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on
experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server
came back up ok and all
the services associated with the mailing list
continued
to run, so Nagios (the
application we use to
monitor our
systems) did not report any
issues. However, the
sudden
reboot had corrupted several open
files
associated with
the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list
often
goes through quiet periods this
was not noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server
was only
set to a few days and by the time
the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate
from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman
2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a
Mailman
3 server for some internal
mailing lists, so we
migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can
be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John -
KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we
had the last
big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with
John looking
after it
has provided excellent service to
the community.
John is
going to continue to help out by
acting as admin
for the
44net mailing list on it’s new
home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
9:17 p.m.
I manage 3x groups on Groups.io. It's solid and the vast majority of the
ham radio-related groups that I'm a member of are all on Groups.io or
Google Groups.
Discourse is a good platform - but it's effectively yet another site,
another set of credentials, etc.
Any time I set up a group, I try to think of what's the least impact on
users...not just what I want. Since most hams are members of groups on
Groups.io, it seemed logical to start my groups there.
There is a downside to Groups.io...they max out at 100 members on their
free plan. Then you have to start paying an annual fee. My groups were
grandfathered in from before they started charging for 101+ members.
If Groups.io does start to mandate fees on my groups, I'll be switching
over to Google Groups without thinking twice about it.
Just my $0.02...
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:12 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
unable to
wrote:
DMARC
all
44net
for
old
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
< https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god,
do NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like
email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a
web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email,
it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the
shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a
peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but
not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate
and, even if I try to
perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google
Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a
Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> >
> I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to
mailman.
> The password reset claims my Gmail
address is not a valid
user ("
The
e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>
> <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote:
>
> Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am > login via the web interface to
change it - it says I am
not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with
regard
> to email reputation.
>
> SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published > record that quarantines
100% of DMARC failures. So
the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they
ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC
all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET
<http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server
last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on
experienced an
> unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and
the services associated with the mailing list
continued
to run, so Nagios (the
application we use to
monitor our
systems) did not report any
issues. However, the
sudden
reboot had corrupted several open
files
associated with
> the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list
often
> goes through quiet periods this was not noticed
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server
was only
set to a few days and by the time
the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate
from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman
2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a
Mailman
3 server for some internal
mailing lists, so we
migrated
> the 44net list there.
>
> I am pleased to report that the archives from the > server were
successfully migrated over, so no
loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can
be found
here:
<
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/&g…
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John -
KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we
had the last
big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with
John looking
after it
has provided excellent service to
the community.
John is
going to continue to help out by
acting as admin
for the
44net mailing list on it’s new
home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
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<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
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<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
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<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
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22 Apr
22 Apr
9:08 p.m.
On 22/4/22 11:17 am, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
I manage 3x groups on Groups.io. It's solid and
the vast majority of
the ham radio-related groups that I'm a member of are all on Groups.io
or Google Groups.
Google Groups is another platform worth considering too. That
will mean
a bigger change, because I will be using a different email address, but
no biggie.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
21 Apr
21 Apr
9:17 p.m.
It seems most of my mailing lists have migrated to groups.io, and it seems to work well.
The free service may be limited to 100 or so members.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra
5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> Date: 4/21/22 9:13 PM (GMT-05:00) To:
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Thanks for the discussion,
folks.Have people enjoyed groups.io better?Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYVExecutive
DirectorAmateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)ampr.orgOn 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien
Gardner via 44net wrote:> Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move
to discourse. > SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
> organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like > email, and
had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a > web message board. As
much as discourse likes to say it supports email, > it really doesn't do a good job
of it, and with members cracking the > shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year,
and now we don't have a > peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.> >
--DG> > On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net >
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:> >
Hi,> Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion>
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new> rather than
just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I> find it like having an
inconvenient PO Box that you have to> intentionally go visit to see if anything is
there vs. mail being> delivered to my home mailbox.> > 73 Jim KY2D>
> > -----Original Message-----> From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> Sent:
Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53> To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration>
> Hey Jeff,> > Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to
switch to> Discourse.> > https://www.discourse.org/
<https://www.discourse.org/>> > Curious if folks haved used it and like
it.> > Rosy> > Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV> Executive
Director> Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)> ampr.org
<http://ampr.org>> > On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net
wrote:> > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over,
but> not the> > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even
if I try to> perform> > password recovery, I get the following
message:> >> > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user
account"> >> > Not for anything but why not just switch to
something like Google> Groups> > or Groups.io instead of having someone
host a Mailman server?> >> > Jeff Hochberg> >
W4JEW> > Atlanta, GA> > jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>>> >>
>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net> >
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
wrote:> >> > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in
to mailman.> > The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid
user ("> > The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account
")> >> > Mike / AA8IA> >> > On
Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com>
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>> > <mailto:jon@anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote:> >> > Looks
like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to> > login via
the web interface to change it - it says I am not a> > user when I try
to reset my password.> >> > 73 de KM8V>
>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net>
> <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
wrote:> >> > Looks like there might be a little more to
do, with> regard> > to email reputation.>
>> > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published
DMARC> > record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So
the> > list emails are going to end up in spam folders
(they> ended> > up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC> all failed.> >> >
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org>
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record> >> >
and it appears themailman.ampr.org> <http://themailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being
signed with anARDC.NET > <http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key
rather than> amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org> >
<http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key>
>> > Mike / AA8IA> >> >> >
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net> >
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
wrote:> >> > Hello All,> >> >
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server> last
week:> >> > The server the mailing list is hosted
on> experienced an> > unexpected reboot. The server came
back up ok and all> > the services associated with the mailing
list> continued> > to run, so Nagios (the application we
use to> monitor our> > systems) did not report any
issues. However, the> sudden> > reboot had corrupted
several open files> associated with> > the mailing list
software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net> > mailing list was not
passing emails. As the list> often> > goes through quiet
periods this was not noticed for> > several days.>
>> > Unfortunately the backup period for the server >
was only> > set to a few days and by the time the issue
was> > investigated all the available backups were of
the> > corrupted files.> >> >
As the longer term plan was always to migrate> from the> >
older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest> >
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the> > mailing
list to a new server. ARDC already has a> Mailman> > 3
server for some internal mailing lists, so we> migrated> >
the 44net list there.> >> > I am pleased to
report that the archives from the old> > server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of> > data there
thankfully.> >> > The web interface for the new home
of 44net can> be found> > here:> >>
>>
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/&g…
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>>
> >
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>>>
>> > The MX record has been updated to point to the
new> > server, so you should continue to send emails
to> > 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> >
to post to the list.> >> > I want to
take this opportunity to thank John -> KI5D for> >
hosting the mailing list since we had the last> big crash> >
in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking> after it> >
has provided excellent service to the community.> John is> >
going to continue to help out by acting as admin> for the>
> 44net mailing list on it’s new home.> >> >
Best 73,> > Chris - G1FEF> >>
>> >
_______________________________________________> > 44net
mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> > To unsubscribe
send an email to> > 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> >
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>> >> >
_______________________________________________> > 44net mailing
list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> > To unsubscribe send an
email to> 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> >
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>> >> >
_______________________________________________> > 44net mailing list --
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> >
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>> >> >> >
_______________________________________________> > 44net mailing list --
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To
unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________> 44net mailing list --
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> To
unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org>
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unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > >
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44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org_______________________________________________44net mailing
list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.orgTo unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
9:35 p.m.
On 4/21/2022 6:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Many of the venerable Yahoo! lists I subscribe to moved to groups.io
when Yahoo! pulled the plug. I've found it works really well, way
better than Yahoo! groups, arguably better than Mailman. And the
additional features may be useful (database, photos, files, wiki, ...)
Alas, I believe it's not open source.
22 Apr
22 Apr
12:54 a.m.
I too left Yahoo for IO Groups, I got in under the lifetime free wire.
Depending on the size of the membership in the group, it can become very
expensive to use now. We have 30 odd lists and 3000 members in our DMR
groups, most of our DMR networks runs under 44net. It does mailing lists
with or without all the web GUI front end features. No looking back after
leaving Yahoo. We operate several dmr-l lists, somewhat like the old
Usenet Newsgroups.
If the principals of this group wish to explore something with favorable
terms, I'd be open to dialog. We operate under the
*https://dmr.groups.io/g/DMR/subgroups
<https://dmr.groups.io/g/DMR/subgroups> *umbrella.
I also agree that discord is not the best approach.
73,
Mike, NO7RF
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 6:36 PM Steve Williams via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/2022 6:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via
44net wrote:
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Many of the venerable Yahoo! lists I subscribe to moved to groups.io
when Yahoo! pulled the plug. I've found it works really well, way
better than Yahoo! groups, arguably better than Mailman. And the
additional features may be useful (database, photos, files, wiki, ...)
Alas, I believe it's not open source.
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
21 Apr
21 Apr
10:18 p.m.
There's a community that I'd like to be more involved with that uses
Discourse, but I (personally) find Discourse to be simply too much
overhead, so I'm not active in that community.
If I *had* to use Discourse (for a paycheck job), I would / could. But
not by choice.
Disclaimer - I'm an old fart and I've been doing email for many
decades, and it's my favorite / primary form of electronic
communication. Mailing lists are natural and easy for me to
participate in virtual communities.
If you're going to use email lists, Groups.io is the way to go. It's
not open source, and you can't self-host it. It's a paid service...
but it's a very good, very stable / reliable, very capable service.
If I had to start a mailing list now (and I am considering doing so as
a companion for my newsletter), I'd pony up the fee to use the paid
version.
Thanks for considering Groups.io - I think it would work well for ARDC.
Steve Stroh N8GNJ
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 6:12 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
--
Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter - https://zeroretries.substack.com
Twitter - @zeroretries / https://twitter.com/zeroretries
10:54 p.m.
If you looking for another great product, check out Discord.
Cheers.
Adam Lewis
KC7GDY
On Apr 21, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Steve Stroh via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
There's a community that I'd like to be more involved with that uses
Discourse, but I (personally) find Discourse to be simply too much
overhead, so I'm not active in that community.
If I *had* to use Discourse (for a paycheck job), I would / could. But
not by choice.
Disclaimer - I'm an old fart and I've been doing email for many
decades, and it's my favorite / primary form of electronic
communication. Mailing lists are natural and easy for me to
participate in virtual communities.
If you're going to use email lists, Groups.io is the way to go. It's
not open source, and you can't self-host it. It's a paid service...
but it's a very good, very stable / reliable, very capable service.
If I had to start a mailing list now (and I am considering doing so as
a companion for my newsletter), I'd pony up the fee to use the paid
version.
Thanks for considering Groups.io - I think it would work well for ARDC.
Steve Stroh N8GNJ
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 6:12 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
--
Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter - https://zeroretries.substack.com
Twitter - @zeroretries / https://twitter.com/zeroretries
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
22 Apr
22 Apr
9:16 p.m.
On 22/4/22 12:54 pm, adam--- via 44net wrote:
If you looking for another great product, check out
Discord.
While I do use Discord a lot, I think it would be better run alongside a
more "long form" of communication. I see Discord better suited to real
time communication, while a mailing list is something for more in depth
and longer lived conversations.
There's an argument to run both in parallel, because they serve
different purposes.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
10:22 p.m.
Nice thing about mailing lists, we all end up with our own archives, and
it’s all in a standard format that is readily migrated as needed.
Even if it’s hosted on a commercial system, it’s easy to pick up and move
if its all in an mbox file or something.
When you get into web-first systems, migration becomes a matter of what the
vendor might or might not support for import and export.
I’m in favor of commercial products that “embrace and extend” open
standards. Seems like groups.io might fit that bill.
*From:* Tony Langdon via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
*Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 8:16:31 PM
*To:* 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
*Subject:* [44net] Re: Mailman migration
On 22/4/22 12:54 pm, adam--- via 44net wrote:
If you looking for another great product, check out
Discord.
While I do use Discord a lot, I think it would be better run alongside a
more "long form" of communication. I see Discord better suited to real
time communication, while a mailing list is something for more in depth
and longer lived conversations.
There's an argument to run both in parallel, because they serve
different purposes.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
21 Apr
21 Apr
10:44 p.m.
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say
Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No
doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor
but it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to
groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god,
do NOT move to
discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it
killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members
REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their
conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to
say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and
with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last
year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in
Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but
not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate
and, even if I try to
perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google
Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a
Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to
mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is
not a valid
user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any
user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>
<mailto:jon@anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am
unable to
login via the web interface to change it
- it says I
am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with
regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a
published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC
failures.
So the
list emails are going to end up in
spam folders (they
ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC
all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with
anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server
last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on
experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server
came back up ok
and all
the services associated with the
mailing list
continued
to run, so Nagios (the
application we use to
monitor our
systems) did not report any
issues. However, the
sudden
reboot had corrupted several open
files
associated with
the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and
the 44net
mailing list was not passing
emails. As the list
often
goes through quiet periods this
was not
noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server
was only
set to a few days and by the time
the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of
the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate
from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman
2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a
Mailman
3 server for some internal
mailing lists, so we
migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from
the old
server were successfully migrated
over, so no
loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can
be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>
The MX record has been updated to point to the
new
server, so you should continue to
send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John -
KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we
had the last
big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with
John looking
after it
has provided excellent service to
the community.
John is
going to continue to help out by
acting as admin
for the
44net mailing list on it’s new
home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to
44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
10:51 p.m.
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say
Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No
doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor
but it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to
groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
> Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to
> discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it
> killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members
> REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their
> conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to
> say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and
> with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last
> year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in
> Australia.
>
> --DG
>
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net
> <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
> system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
> rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
> find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
> intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
> delivered to my home mailbox.
>
> 73 Jim KY2D
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
> To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
>
> Hey Jeff,
>
> Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
> Discourse.
>
> https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
>
> Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
>
> Rosy
>
> Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
> Executive Director
> Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
> ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
22 Apr
22 Apr
3:43 a.m.
Of course when we would consider going to a discussion platform rather than a
mailinglist,
we should, in honor of our former president, setup an NNTP (usenet) server with closed
access
and a long retention time. Everyone can use their favorite newsreader, but unfortunately
searching article bodies is as problematic as with Mailman.
So indeed a email list with archiving seems a better option. But I would vote for a
solution
that we can host ourselves instead of a "cloud service". Those may be
terminated at any
time or the terms&conditions may change. We have our own IP space and hosting
facilities
so self-hosted solutions should be no problem for us and are part of our core business.
Rob
On 4/22/22 04:51, David Ranch via 44net wrote:
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say Discourse,
MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No doubt, AMPR's stock
Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor but it could be made better. If
AMPR wants to move the email lists to groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search
abilities.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
> Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU
moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned
out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving
their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports
email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and
leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT
Professionals in Australia.
>
> --DG
>
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
> system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
> rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
> find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
> intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
> delivered to my home mailbox.
>
> 73 Jim KY2D
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
> To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
>
> Hey Jeff,
>
> Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
> Discourse.
>
> https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
>
> Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
>
> Rosy
>
> Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
> Executive Director
> Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
> ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
3:49 a.m.
This might sound a little ridiculous, but I started thinking of the days
when I was in college back in 1993/1994 and the Internet was just starting
to proliferate. We were in a transitional state moving from AOL,
CompuServe, AppleLink and more over to shell accounts on Unix systems.
I remember using mailx and Elm (predecessor to Pine) for email. Having to
wait for a workstation to free up so I could go in and start banging on the
keyboard.
I like the idea of NNTP via shell (or whatever NNTP client one feels
comfortable with and IRC for real-time chat.
It may not be practical for our needs necessary, but it sure sounds like a
great nostalgic experience!
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 3:43 AM Rob PE1CHL via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
wrote:
Of course when we would consider going to a discussion
platform rather
than a mailinglist,
we should, in honor of our former president, setup an NNTP (usenet) server
with closed access
and a long retention time. Everyone can use their favorite newsreader,
but unfortunately
searching article bodies is as problematic as with Mailman.
So indeed a email list with archiving seems a better option. But I would
vote for a solution
that we can host ourselves instead of a "cloud service". Those may be
terminated at any
time or the terms&conditions may change. We have our own IP space and
hosting facilities
so self-hosted solutions should be no problem for us and are part of our
core business.
Rob
On 4/22/22 04:51, David Ranch via 44net wrote:
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say
Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No
doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor but
it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to
groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email,
and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web
message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it
really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and
leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body
for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
<https://www.discourse.org/>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org> <http://ampr.org>
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
--
———
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
470-484-8010
jeff(a)w4jew.com
3:49 a.m.
Hi Rosy
groups.io is the obvious choice here.
Ticks the boxes of:
- simple, modern, widely adopted and not just by hams
- doesn’t need someone to maintain some server
- keeps the format of email
- also has a good web UI
- free/cheap
Best regards
Tom
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 02:12, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
unable to
wrote:
DMARC
all
44net
for
old
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
< https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god,
do NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like
email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a
web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email,
it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the
shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a
peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but
not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate
and, even if I try to
perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google
Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a
Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> >
> I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to
mailman.
> The password reset claims my Gmail
address is not a valid
user ("
The
e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>
> <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote:
>
> Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am > login via the web interface to
change it - it says I am
not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with
regard
> to email reputation.
>
> SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published > record that quarantines
100% of DMARC failures. So
the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they
ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC
all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET
<http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server
last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on
experienced an
> unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and
the services associated with the mailing list
continued
to run, so Nagios (the
application we use to
monitor our
systems) did not report any
issues. However, the
sudden
reboot had corrupted several open
files
associated with
> the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list
often
> goes through quiet periods this was not noticed
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server
was only
set to a few days and by the time
the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate
from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman
2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a
Mailman
3 server for some internal
mailing lists, so we
migrated
> the 44net list there.
>
> I am pleased to report that the archives from the > server were
successfully migrated over, so no
loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can
be found
here:
<
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/&g…
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John -
KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we
had the last
big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with
John looking
after it
has provided excellent service to
the community.
John is
going to continue to help out by
acting as admin
for the
44net mailing list on it’s new
home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
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10:35 a.m.
Rosy, All,
I fully agree with Tom’s assessment.
Jack Spitznagel – KD4IZ
Associate Editor – AMSAT News Service
AMSAT Ambassador
kd4iz(a)arrl.net
From: Tom M0LTE via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 03:50
To: 44Net general discussion <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>rg>; Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
<rosy(a)ardc.net>
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hi Rosy
groups.io <http://groups.io> is the obvious choice here.
Ticks the boxes of:
- simple, modern, widely adopted and not just by hams
- doesn’t need someone to maintain some server
- keeps the format of email
- also has a good web UI
- free/cheap
Best regards
Tom
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 02:12, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io <http://groups.io> better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do
NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like
email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a
web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email,
it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the
shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a
peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >> wrote:
Hi,
Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion
system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I
find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to
intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being
delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >
Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
Executive Director
Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
ampr.org <http://ampr.org> <http://ampr.org>
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
Evidently, some of the configurations were
transferred over, but
not the
user database. I'm unable to authenticate
and, even if I try to
perform
password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google
Groups
or Groups.io instead of having someone host a
Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg
W4JEW
Atlanta, GA
jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> > <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>
<mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> >>
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>>
wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com>
<mailto:jon@anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com> >
<mailto:jon@anhold.com
<mailto:jon@anhold.com> <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>
>>> wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>>
wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with
regard
to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they
ended
up in my Gmail spam folder) because
SPF/DKIM/DMARC
all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org
<http://themailman.ampr.org>
<http://themailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org>
<http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET
<http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than
amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org> <http://amailman.ampr.org>
<http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>>
wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server
last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on
experienced an
unexpected reboot. The server
came back up ok and all
the services associated with the mailing list
continued
to run, so Nagios (the
application we use to
monitor our
systems) did not report any
issues. However, the
sudden
reboot had corrupted several open
files
associated with
the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
mailing list was not passing emails. As the list
often
goes through quiet periods this
was not noticed for
several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server
was only
set to a few days and by the time
the issue was
investigated all the available backups were of the
corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate
from the
older (now unsupported) Mailman
2.1 to the latest
Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a
Mailman
3 server for some internal
mailing lists, so we
migrated
the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can
be found
here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>
The MX record has been updated to point to the new
server, so you should continue to send emails to
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>
to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John -
KI5D for
hosting the mailing list since we
had the last
big crash
in 2012. The mailman server, with
John looking
after it
has provided excellent service to
the community.
John is
going to continue to help out by
acting as admin
for the
44net mailing list on it’s new
home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>
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21 Apr
21 Apr
10:20 p.m.
I agree with this, and would suggest that email is the best primary channel for this kind
of communication.
Moving to a model that requires users to remember to check a Discourse page I expect would
lead to a drop-off in timely responses and the value of the list. Currently it is
interesting to follow along the conversations that can spring forth on this list, and have
the option to interact with them as they occur, if I only look at my inbox frequently
enough.
It is likely given the aforementioned "quiet periods" on the list that a change
in delivery from 'push' to 'pull' for end-users would lead to a drop-off
in engagement, particularly in a real-time sense.
I have used groups.io for other amateur radio related groups, and it works well there. I
am not sure if there is a formal position from ARDC on the use of paid internet services
vs open-source self-hosted software in the public-facing administration of the foundation,
but given the spirit of amateur radio and the kinds of services which are typically
provided within the 44/8 network, it would go against the grain to choose a such an
option, though I acknowledge the obvious appeal in administration.
--
Joel VK3LE/VK2VRO
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 11:08:59AM +1000, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do
NOT move to discourse.
SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the
organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email,
and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web
message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it
really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and
leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body
for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not
> email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just
> having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an
> inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if
> anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
>
> 73 Jim KY2D
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53
> To: 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
>
> Hey Jeff,
>
> Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to
> Discourse.
>
> https://www.discourse.org/
>
> Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
>
> Rosy
>
> Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV
> Executive Director
> Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)
> ampr.org
>
> On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
> > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the
> > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform
> > password recovery, I get the following message:
> >
> > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
> >
> > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups
> > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
> >
> > Jeff Hochberg
> > W4JEW
> > Atlanta, GA
> > jeff(a)w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
> > <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
> >
> > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.
> > The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("
> > The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
> >
> > Mike / AA8IA
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon(a)anhold.com
> > <mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to
> > login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a
> > user when I try to reset my password.
> >
> > 73 de KM8V
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net
> > <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
wrote:
> >
> > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard
> > to email reputation.
> >
> > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC
> > record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the
> > list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended
> > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all
> failed.
> >
> > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <
> http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record
> >
> > and it appears themailman.ampr.org
<http://mailman.ampr.org>
> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key
> rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key
> >
> > Mike / AA8IA
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
> > <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last
> week:
> >
> > The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an
> > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all
> > the services associated with the mailing list continued
> > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
> > systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden
> > reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
> > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net
> > mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often
> > goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for
> > several days.
> >
> > Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only
> > set to a few days and by the time the issue was
> > investigated all the available backups were of the
> > corrupted files.
> >
> > As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the
> > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest
> > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the
> > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman
> > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated
> > the 44net list there.
> >
> > I am pleased to report that the archives from the old
> > server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of
> > data there thankfully.
> >
> > The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found
> > here:
> >
> >
> https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
> > <
> https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/&g…
> >
> > The MX record has been updated to point to the new
> > server, so you should continue to send emails to
> > 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
> > to post to the list.
> >
> > I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for
> > hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash
> > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it
> > has provided excellent service to the community. John is
> > going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the
> > 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
> >
> > Best 73,
> > Chris - G1FEF
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>
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22 Apr
22 Apr
9:14 p.m.
On 22/4/22 12:20 pm, Joel VK3LE via 44net wrote:
I agree with this, and would suggest that email is the
best primary channel for this kind of communication.
Moving to a model that requires users to remember to check a Discourse page I expect
would lead to a drop-off in timely responses and the value of the list. Currently it is
interesting to follow along the conversations that can spring forth on this list, and have
the option to interact with them as they occur, if I only look at my inbox frequently
enough.
Being suspected ADHD, I'm very prone to "login fatigue" from checking too
many different services, and low volume ones are the first to fall off the list. I also
find web navigation slow and fiddly, another thing that goes against my nature. Email is
good, because the login is already done, and I can catch up on posts when I'm going
through emai. Other communities have lost my involvement when they switched to web forums
(xlxd being a ham example of this issue).
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
24 Apr
24 Apr
5:05 a.m.
Le 22/04/2022 à 03:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net a écrit :
Here's just one vote*NOT* to use Discourse.
It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new
rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an
inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there
vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
+1. Web forums are terribly time-consuming ! I subscribed to some tenths
of mailing lists. All the messages arrive in the corresponding
sub-folder in my inbox, and I can browse them freely during my (often
very short) periods of free time. I can't afford (and I won't) connect
to some tenths of web forums just to see if someone answered, or simply,
see what's new.
Mailing-lists are simple and efficient systems. Please keep them !
Some systems such as groups.io allow "mixed" usage (mailing-list and web
access), so that anybody can use his favorite "client" system, while the
message base is common.
--
Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network.
Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal
communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use
"internal" services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net
servers.
And if we need something more "modern", such as a instant messaging /
groupware / social network, we should also look at free software. Some
solutions allow the deployment of decentralized and self-hosted servers,
which is a perfect solution for 44net networks. Some people are already
operating Mastodon or Matrix servers on 44net. Why not adopting a common
scheme, deploying and inter-connecting servers in several regions, and
start using them ? :-)
73 de TK1BI
5:26 a.m.
--
Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network.
Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal
communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal"
services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route to our
"normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed, fighting
spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks.
Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they
face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems.
The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most
users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop
without it going to my spam box".
As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it.
Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net
but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
And if we need something more "modern", such
as a instant messaging /
groupware / social network, we should also look at free software. Some
solutions allow the deployment of decentralized and self-hosted servers, which
is a perfect solution for 44net networks. Some people are already operating
Mastodon or Matrix servers on 44net. Why not adopting a common scheme,
deploying and inter-connecting servers in several regions, and start using them ?
:-)
That requires some one to stop doing HAM stuff and duplicate effort.
73 de TK1BI
_______________________________________________
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44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
Dave
G4UGM
5:39 a.m.
On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
Is that a concern with the existing mailing list?
My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and it had to be
recovered.
And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it somewhere
else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.
I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core business and we should
not outsource it.
From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external service
that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource software that you can host
yourself. The latter could be an option to use.
But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution and that others
do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net.
When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how we provide
"emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.
Rob
--
Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network.
Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal
communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal"
services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route
to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed,
fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks.
Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they
face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems.
The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most
users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop
without it going to my spam box".
As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it.
Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net
but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
6:02 a.m.
Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are very clear distinctions
between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the many other services
that make up what we consider to be the internet today?
All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill, resources,
hardware and service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc) offer
network services, they are an NSP, the people that would for the
organisation and provide the service, although may well be inclined and
skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service
providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such
they felt the best thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a
core-competency in mailing list management.
It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the
44net service and if the person that volunteered their time, resources and
effort into maintaining a now defunct mail-server now decides he no longer
wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that what is considered an
incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the
previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with
a provider who offer those services.
I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that the
callsign comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders to
almost 'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be
free indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not
so much)... If you feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that
someone volunteer their time, resources and effort in to hosting a mailman
service.... you do it!
I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH or
on one of the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is protected
and secure, isn't succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the service has a
reasonable level of availability and it's usage conforms to the many
regulartory domains that exist across the world... Doing to for free,
doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the opportunity to
raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to read the above
first.
Thats my 2-pence... ;)
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 10:40, Rob PE1CHL via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
wrote:
On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
but
route to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves
black listed, fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC
frameworks.
Is that a concern with the existing mailing list?
My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and
it had to be recovered.
And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it
somewhere else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.
I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core
business and we should not outsource it.
From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external
service that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource
software that you can host yourself. The latter could be an option to use.
But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution
and that others do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net.
When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how
we provide "emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.
Rob
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
> --
> Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network.
> Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal
> communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use
"internal"
services,
based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists
will be aware of the
many problems they face, but they have a central team that
helps sort out
the problems.
The real issue is that many mail providers want
to advertise low spam
levels, but most users never as the million dollar question,
"how much
legitimate e-mail do you drop without it going to my spam box".
As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know
nothing about it.
Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would
work on the
44 net but are we really about duplicating existing
infrastructure?
6:24 a.m.
I don't think the current maintainer is doing it for free. And I think that should
not matter.
We have a mission to create a network for amateur radio purposes. When we think that we
cannot host services because of stupid liability issues or because it would cost us time,
we
better stop doing it and pass the buck to the Googles, Microsofts and Facebooks of the
world.
I think it is ridiculous that we would even CONSIDER these kinds of things in an amateur
radio
network.
And w.r.t. me doing things for the network, you probably are not aware of how much effort
I
spend on it all for free.
Rob
On 4/24/22 12:02, Mark Stevenson via 44net wrote:
Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are very
clear distinctions between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the many other
services that make up what we consider to be the internet today?
All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill, resources, hardware and
service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc) offer network services, they are an
NSP, the people that would for the organisation and provide the service, although may well
be inclined and skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service
providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such they felt the best
thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a core-competency in mailing list
management.
It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the 44net service and
if the person that volunteered their time, resources and effort into maintaining a now
defunct mail-server now decides he no longer wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that
what is considered an incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the
previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with a provider who
offer those services.
I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that the callsign
comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders to almost
'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be free
indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not so much)... If you
feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that someone volunteer their time,
resources and effort in to hosting a mailman service.... you do it!
I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH or on one of
the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is protected and secure, isn't
succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the service has a reasonable level of availability
and it's usage conforms to the many regulartory domains that exist across the world...
Doing to for free, doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the
opportunity to raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to read the above
first.
Thats my 2-pence... ;)
6:43 a.m.
I have witnessed devastating ransomware attacks. When you are working with
data and in a world where your infrastructure is the target of organised
crime from just about any crevice in the world, liability is absolutely a
reason why anyone should consider what services they offer, the impact
those services has and if a bad actor was to take over those services,
exactly what the impact would be for both the service provider and its
end-users.
A backup protects the service providers ability to continue to provide the
services, it doesn't really close the loophole that allowed access in the
first place. What it doesn't protect is the contact details of each and
every person in that list, names, e-mail addresses and a credible source
are enough to instigate a phishing campaign from a trusted source and trust
me when I say this, people are more than happy to divulge their credentials
to a web page they obtained by clicking a link in a trusted e-mail.
User-error is partly to blame in most of these cases, but the
service-providers reputational damage almost irrecoverable (because blaming
the IT guy is always easier).
As for your network contributions... good for you... we wouldn't do things
for free unless we felt good about it (no such thing as a selfless act
after all)... my comment was specifically around this topic. I think we are
all here because we want to contribute something but in the glaring absence
of an actual credible, alternative solution to the current problem of a
lack of mail-distribution platform and when weighted against some probable
outcomes, outsourcing makes sense.
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 11:24, Rob PE1CHL via 44net <44net(a)mailman.ampr.org>
wrote:
I don't think the current maintainer is doing it
for free. And I think
that should not matter.
We have a mission to create a network for amateur radio purposes. When we
think that we
cannot host services because of stupid liability issues or because it
would cost us time, we
better stop doing it and pass the buck to the Googles, Microsofts and
Facebooks of the world.
I think it is ridiculous that we would even CONSIDER these kinds of things
in an amateur radio
network.
And w.r.t. me doing things for the network, you probably are not aware of
how much effort I
spend on it all for free.
Rob
On 4/24/22 12:02, Mark Stevenson via 44net wrote:
Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are
very clear distinctions
between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the
many other services
that make up what we consider to be the internet today?
All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill,
resources, hardware
and service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc)
offer network services, they are an NSP, the people that would for the
organisation and provide the service, although may well be inclined and
skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service
providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such
they felt the best thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a
core-competency in mailing list management.
It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the
44net
service and if the person that volunteered their time, resources and
effort into maintaining a now defunct mail-server now decides he no longer
wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that what is considered an
incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the
previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with
a provider who offer those services.
I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that
the
callsign comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders
to almost 'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be
free indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not
so much)... If you feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that
someone volunteer their time, resources and effort in to hosting a mailman
service.... you do it!
I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH
or on
one of the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is
protected and secure, isn't succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the
service has a reasonable level of availability and it's usage conforms to
the many regulartory domains that exist across the world... Doing to for
free, doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the
opportunity to raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to
read the above first.
Thats my 2-pence... ;)
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
3:34 p.m.
+1
On 2022-04-24 05:39, Rob PE1CHL via 44net wrote:
On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
Is that a concern with the existing mailing list?
My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and it had to be
recovered.
And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it somewhere
else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.
I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core business and we should
not outsource it.
From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external service
that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource software that you can host
yourself. The latter could be an option to use.
But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution and that others
do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net.
When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how we provide
"emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.
Rob
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave(a)mailman.ampr.org
--
There is nothing permanent except change
-Heraclitus
--
Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network.
Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal
communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal"
services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route
to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed,
fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks.
Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they
face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems.
The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most
users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop
without it going to my spam box".
As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it.
Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net
but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
21 Apr
21 Apr
9:32 p.m.
On 4/21/2022 5:53 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
... we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
I've used Discourse, and I really like it! And that's saying a lot,
because I detest all other web-based forum software I've used.
I've always preferred to use my familiar email client for all of my
email list activity. Not until I joined a paid community that uses
Discourse did I find I enjoyed using a web tool to compose messages,
read messages, and stay up to date with a community.
Discourse has spotty RSS support. I hope they'll improve that.
I love Mailman and pay MailmanLists.net to host many Mailman lists, and
I've self-hosted Mailman 2 in the past. But Mailman 2 has real
limitations and, while I've never tried to self-host or administer
Mailman 3, it appears it's more complex. I'm tempted to move my Mailman
lists to Discourse!
Here's more info on the paid community I mentioned:
https://creativegood.com/blog/21/announcing-creative-good-community.html
12:23 p.m.
On Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact
looking to switch to
Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
In my opinion, mailman is the best option for this forum.
--
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
Disinformation Architect, Systems Mangler, & Network Mismanager
11:35 a.m.
I'm a newcomer to the project and the list, still working on getting some
time to actually get my endpoint up and running -- so I don't have a lot of
history on this.
I think discourse is a great piece of software if you're looking to host a
web discussion forum, but that's not always the best way to manage
communication, and the feedback so far seems like people prefer email for
this particular group. From what I've seen, that makes sense to me.
A few have said they don't want anything that is
"cloud based". Anything
you get from the internet is "cloud
based" one way or another.
I think the sentiment that people are expressing isn't about where the
infrastructure lives, but more about using the walled gardens that are SaaS
products. There are legitimate concerns here. A paid service can change
the rules at any time. They can, and often do, treat you like a product,
selling information about you to other organizations for their benefit, and
not really for yours. They can decide to just close their doors, or
terminate the product and give you nothing. Not wanting to be subject to
this is not unreasonable.
I am in multiple groups.io lists. I don't love it, but it's not the worst
thing ever -- aside from the above concerns that come with any hosted
solution of that sort.
If I do get any veto influence I would use it on any suggestion of using
discord. I abhor discord for all of the above reasons, plus their
abominable terms of service which, among other things, bar you from using
any other client but theirs. (It's technically feasible, but if they
discover it they ban you.) No bridges, no unified clients, nothing. They
are the worst and I hate that they've gotten so much traction despite being
such a garbage organization.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <
44net(a)mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot.
The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing
list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our
systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had
corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software
(Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the
list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days
and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were
of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now
unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken
to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3
server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should
continue to send emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the
mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server,
with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community.
John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net
mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
_______________________________________________
44net mailing list -- 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
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11:56 a.m.
I thought Mark's message brought up several points about *any* 3rd party
hosted (aka SaaS) offering and we as a community will be at their mercy.
I realize that John KI5Dmight not want to continue administrate a future
solution but is the group also considering running a *replacement* email
list service that ADRC owns/operates? The ARDC clearly has the money to
pay for some level of hosting service, maybe including full admin
services and maintenance, the volume of email is not large, and across
all the brilliant minds and experience here on the email list, I'm sure
a fairly featureful replacement solution should be possible.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 04/22/2022 08:35 AM, Mark Bainter via 44net wrote:
I'm a newcomer to the project and the list, still
working on getting
some time to actually get my endpoint up and running -- so I don't
have a lot of history on this.
I think discourse is a great piece of software if you're looking to
host a web discussion forum, but that's not always the best way to
manage communication, and the feedback so far seems like people prefer
email for this particular group. From what I've seen, that makes sense
to me.
A few have said they don't want anything that
is "cloud based".
Anything you get from the internet is "cloud
based" one way or another.
I think the sentiment that people are expressing isn't about where the
infrastructure lives, but more about using the walled gardens that are
SaaS products. There are legitimate concerns here. A paid service
can change the rules at any time. They can, and often do, treat you
like a product, selling information about you to other organizations
for their benefit, and not really for yours. They can decide to just
close their doors, or terminate the product and give you nothing. Not
wanting to be subject to this is not unreasonable.
I am in multiple groups.io <http://groups.io> lists. I don't love it,
but it's not the worst thing ever -- aside from the above concerns
that come with any hosted solution of that sort.
If I do get any veto influence I would use it on any suggestion of
using discord. I abhor discord for all of the above reasons, plus
their abominable terms of service which, among other things, bar you
from using any other client but theirs. (It's technically feasible,
but if they discover it they ban you.) No bridges, no unified
clients, nothing. They are the worst and I hate that they've gotten so
much traction despite being such a garbage organization.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net
<44net(a)mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected
reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated
with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application
we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However,
the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with
the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list
was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet
periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a
few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the
available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now
unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision
was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC
already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so
we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were
successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you
should continue to send emails to 44net(a)mailman.ampr.org
<mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting
the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The
mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent
service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by
acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73,
Chris - G1FEF
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44 comments
31 participants
participants (31)
-
adam＠airgapped.io -
Boudewijn (Bob) Tenty -
Bryan Fields -
Chris Smith -
Damien Gardner -
dan -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
David Ranch -
E. William Horne -
Frank VK2AKG -
Jeff Hochberg -
Jim Kutsch KY2D -
Jim Popovitch -
Joel VK3LE -
John Burwell -
Jon Anhold -
kd4iz＠frawg.org -
Kris Kirby -
Mark Bainter -
Mark Stevenson -
Mike Tindor -
Mike, NO7RF -
R.D. Montgomery -
Rob PE1CHL -
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV -
Ruben ON3RVH -
Steve Stroh -
Steve Williams -
Tom M0LTE -
Tony Langdon -
Toussaint OTTAVI