Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73, Chris - G1FEF
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73, Chris - G1FEF
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73, Chris - G1FEF
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold jon@anhold.com wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73, Chris - G1FEF
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On 4/21/22 11:02 AM, Mike Tindor via 44net wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
You need to make an account first, then confirm your email. I did this and can see my subscription.
mm3 is different in that you have one account for the server and it can see all your subscriptions on the lists of that server.
Thanks, Bryan. That worked for me.
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:17 AM Bryan Fields via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/22 11:02 AM, Mike Tindor via 44net wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
You need to make an account first, then confirm your email. I did this and can see my subscription.
mm3 is different in that you have one account for the server and it can see all your subscriptions on the lists of that server.
-- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
That worked.
I suspect many others were set to receive a digest and are now receiving every email...
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:17 AM Bryan Fields via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/22 11:02 AM, Mike Tindor via 44net wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
You need to make an account first, then confirm your email. I did this and can see my subscription.
mm3 is different in that you have one account for the server and it can see all your subscriptions on the lists of that server.
-- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On 4/21/2022 11:17 AM, Bryan Fields via 44net wrote:
mm3 is different
Yes, it's very definitely different: overwhelmingly so, in my case. If anyone on here can do so, please tell me where to find documentation about the differences between Mailman, Mailman 2, and Mailman 3. I'm especially interested in finding out what advantages the later releases offer compared to the former, and sources of HOWTO info for hams like me whom are not yet acquainted with the latest open-source environments.
Thank you for your help.
73,
Bill, W4EWH
Bill,
You can check out the Mailman website, I'm not sure that they give a very clear breakdown of features gained over the lifecycle of development. However, https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Home does have something similar, just not sure if it will give you a net gain of all new features.
Hope this helps!
Stay well!
_________________________
Ronnie Montgomery (WØrdm)
Missouri AMPRnet Coordinator https://mo.ampr.org
𝜋.666.4.999 <//3146664999> | rdm@rdm.io
On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 10:39 AM E. William Horne via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/2022 11:17 AM, Bryan Fields via 44net wrote:
mm3 is different
Yes, it's very definitely different: overwhelmingly so, in my case. If anyone on here can do so, please tell me where to find documentation about the differences between Mailman, Mailman 2, and Mailman 3. I'm especially interested in finding out what advantages the later releases offer compared to the former, and sources of HOWTO info for hams like me whom are not yet acquainted with the latest open-source environments.
Thank you for your help.
73,
Bill, W4EWH
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On Thu, 2022-05-12 at 11:38 -0400, E. William Horne via 44net wrote:
On 4/21/2022 11:17 AM, Bryan Fields via 44net wrote:
mm3 is different
Yes, it's very definitely different: overwhelmingly so, in my case. If anyone on here can do so, please tell me where to find documentation about the differences between Mailman, Mailman 2, and Mailman 3. I'm especially interested in finding out what advantages the later releases offer compared to the former, and sources of HOWTO info for hams like me whom are not yet acquainted with the latest open-source environments.
Here's my $.02
I worked very diligently on providing updates and code that made MM2 better, and you can find my name in the MM2 NEWS release file. I've operated MM2 lists for over 20 years now so I feel that I have a good idea on the state of MM. MM3 actually started development 12+ years ago when Barry Warsaw was hired by Canonical (Ubuntu) to make MM3 work for a large organization with multiple levels of mailinglists. Barry's work eventually turned into what we know as MM3 today, even though Barry is no longer involved. Bits of MM2 backend configuration made it's way into MM3 via work done by Mark Sapiro. However the MM3 frontend(s) is wholly new.
The problem(s) that I have with the way MM3 works is that it's great and scalable for very large organizations where there are many users who are on many different lists. That said, MM3 sucks (imho) for single lists like this one and the ones I operate. Even today, I feel that MM3 is still evolving and having growing pains whereas MM2 still just works well (yes, even with fully supported python2 from Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, etc). Python2 is fully supported on Ubuntu Focal (20.04) until 2025.
You can find the complete MM3 docs here: https://readthedocs.org/projects/mailman/
I don't know which version of MM3 AMPR runs, so I can't point you do the specific version of docs.
I'm happy to help with any MM2 questions.
73,
-Jim P.
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg W4JEW Atlanta, GA jeff@w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold jon@anhold.com wrote:
Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my password.
73 de KM8V
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation.
SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to the mailman.ampr.org SPF record
and it appears the mailman.ampr.org emails are being signed with an ARDC.NET DKIM key rather than a mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73, Chris - G1FEF
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg W4JEW Atlanta, GA jeff@w4jew.com mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") Mike / AA8IA On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote: Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my password. 73 de KM8V On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation. SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key Mike / AA8IA On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: Hello All, FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days. Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files. As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there. I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully. The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here: https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/> The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> to post to the list. I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home. Best 73, Chris - G1FEF _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg W4JEW Atlanta, GA jeff@w4jew.com mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") Mike / AA8IA On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote: Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my password. 73 de KM8V On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation. SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key Mike / AA8IA On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: Hello All, FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days. Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files. As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there. I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully. The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here: https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/> The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> to post to the list. I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home. Best 73, Chris - G1FEF _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
_______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform password recovery, I get the following message:
"The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"
Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?
Jeff Hochberg W4JEW Atlanta, GA jeff@w4jew.com mailto:jeff@w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") Mike / AA8IA On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote: Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a user when I try to reset my password. 73 de KM8V On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard to email reputation. SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC allfailed.
2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org%3E SPF record
and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>emails are being signed with anARDC.NET http://ARDC.NET DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org DKIM key
Mike / AA8IA On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>wrote:
Hello All, FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server lastweek:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days. Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files. As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there. I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully. The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/%3E
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> to post to the list. I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home. Best 73, Chris - G1FEF _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/> Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org> On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote: > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform > password recovery, I get the following message: > > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account" > > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server? > > Jeff Hochberg > W4JEW > Atlanta, GA > jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote: > > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. > The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" > The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") > > Mike / AA8IA > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> > <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote: > > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to > login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a > user when I try to reset my password. > > 73 de KM8V > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote: > > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard > to email reputation. > > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC > record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the > list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. > > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record > > and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key > > Mike / AA8IA > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote: > > Hello All, > > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: > > The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all > the services associated with the mailing list continued > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our > systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden > reboot had corrupted several open files associated with > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net > mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often > goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for > several days. > > Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only > set to a few days and by the time the issue was > investigated all the available backups were of the > corrupted files. > > As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated > the 44net list there. > > I am pleased to report that the archives from the old > server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of > data there thankfully. > > The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found > here: > > https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/> > <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>> > > The MX record has been updated to point to the new > server, so you should continue to send emails to > 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > to post to the list. > > I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for > hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it > has provided excellent service to the community. John is > going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the > 44net mailing list on it’s new home. > > Best 73, > Chris - G1FEF > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to > 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
I manage 3x groups on Groups.io. It's solid and the vast majority of the ham radio-related groups that I'm a member of are all on Groups.io or Google Groups.
Discourse is a good platform - but it's effectively yet another site, another set of credentials, etc.
Any time I set up a group, I try to think of what's the least impact on users...not just what I want. Since most hams are members of groups on Groups.io, it seemed logical to start my groups there.
There is a downside to Groups.io...they max out at 100 members on their free plan. Then you have to start paying an annual fee. My groups were grandfathered in from before they started charging for 101+ members.
If Groups.io does start to mandate fees on my groups, I'll be switching over to Google Groups without thinking twice about it.
Just my $0.02...
Jeff Hochberg W4JEW Atlanta, GA jeff@w4jew.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:12 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/> Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org> On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote: > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform > password recovery, I get the following message: > > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account" > > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server? > > Jeff Hochberg > W4JEW > Atlanta, GA > jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>wrote:
> > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in tomailman.
> The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a validuser ("
> The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") > > Mike / AA8IA > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> > <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote: > > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I amunable to
> login via the web interface to change it - it says I amnot a
> user when I try to reset my password. > > 73 de KM8V > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>wrote:
> > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard > to email reputation. > > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a publishedDMARC
> record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. Sothe
> list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. > > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record > > and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key > > Mike / AA8IA > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote: > > Hello All, > > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: > > The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok andall
> the services associated with the mailing list continued > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our > systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden > reboot had corrupted several open files associated with > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the44net
> mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often > goes through quiet periods this was not noticedfor
> several days. > > Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only > set to a few days and by the time the issue was > investigated all the available backups were of the > corrupted files. > > As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated > the 44net list there. > > I am pleased to report that the archives from theold
> server were successfully migrated over, so noloss of
> data there thankfully. > > The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found > here: > >https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/%3E
> <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
> > The MX record has been updated to point to the new > server, so you should continue to send emails to > 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > to post to the list. > > I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for > hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it > has provided excellent service to the community. John is > going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the > 44net mailing list on it’s new home. > > Best 73, > Chris - G1FEF > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to > 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
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On 22/4/22 11:17 am, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:
I manage 3x groups on Groups.io. It's solid and the vast majority of the ham radio-related groups that I'm a member of are all on Groups.io or Google Groups.
Google Groups is another platform worth considering too. That will mean a bigger change, because I will be using a different email address, but no biggie.
It seems most of my mailing lists have migrated to groups.io, and it seems to work well. The free service may be limited to 100 or so members.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Date: 4/21/22 9:13 PM (GMT-05:00) To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Thanks for the discussion, folks.Have people enjoyed groups.io better?Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYVExecutive DirectorAmateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)ampr.orgOn 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:> Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. > SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the > organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like > email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a > web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, > it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the > shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a > peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.> > --DG> > On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:> > Hi,> Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion> system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new> rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I> find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to> intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being> delivered to my home mailbox.> > 73 Jim KY2D> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53> To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration> > Hey Jeff,> > Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to> Discourse.> > https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/> > Curious if folks haved used it and like it.> > Rosy> > Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV> Executive Director> Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC)> ampr.org http://ampr.org> > On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote:> > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but> not the> > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to> perform> > password recovery, I get the following message:> >> > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account"> >> > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google> Groups> > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server?> >> > Jeff Hochberg> > W4JEW> > Atlanta, GA> > jeff@w4jew.com mailto:jeff@w4jew.com mailto:jeff@w4jew.com mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>> >> >> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net> > <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:> >> > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman.> > The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user ("> > The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ")> >> > Mike / AA8IA> >> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold jon@anhold.com mailto:jon@anhold.com> > <mailto:jon@anhold.com mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote:> >> > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to> > login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a> > user when I try to reset my password.> >> > 73 de KM8V> >> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net> > <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:> >> > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with> regard> > to email reputation.> >> > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC> > record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the> > list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they> ended> > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC> all failed.> >> > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org> http://themailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record> >> > and it appears themailman.ampr.org> http://themailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET > <http://ARDC.NET http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key rather than> amailman.ampr.org http://amailman.ampr.org > <http://mailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key> >> > Mike / AA8IA> >> >> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net> > 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote:> >> > Hello All,> >> > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server> last week:> >> > The server the mailing list is hosted on> experienced an> > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all> > the services associated with the mailing list> continued> > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to> monitor our> > systems) did not report any issues. However, the> sudden> > reboot had corrupted several open files> associated with> > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net> > mailing list was not passing emails. As the list> often> > goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for> > several days.> >> > Unfortunately the backup period for the server > was only> > set to a few days and by the time the issue was> > investigated all the available backups were of the> > corrupted files.> >> > As the longer term plan was always to migrate> from the> > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest> > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the> > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a> Mailman> > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we> migrated> > the 44net list there.> >> > I am pleased to report that the archives from the old> > server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of> > data there thankfully.> >> > The web interface for the new home of 44net can> be found> > here:> >> >> https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/%3E... https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/> > > <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>> >> > The MX record has been updated to point to the new> > server, so you should continue to send emails to> > 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > to post to the list.> >> > I want to take this opportunity to thank John -> KI5D for> > hosting the mailing list since we had the last> big crash> > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking> after it> > has provided excellent service to the community.> John is> > going to continue to help out by acting as admin> for the> > 44net mailing list on it’s new home.> >> > Best 73,> > Chris - G1FEF> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to> > 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> >> > _______________________________________________> > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to> 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> >> > _______________________________________________> > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________> 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > _______________________________________________> 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > _______________________________________________> 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org_______________________________________________44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.orgTo unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On 4/21/2022 6:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Many of the venerable Yahoo! lists I subscribe to moved to groups.io when Yahoo! pulled the plug. I've found it works really well, way better than Yahoo! groups, arguably better than Mailman. And the additional features may be useful (database, photos, files, wiki, ...)
Alas, I believe it's not open source.
I too left Yahoo for IO Groups, I got in under the lifetime free wire. Depending on the size of the membership in the group, it can become very expensive to use now. We have 30 odd lists and 3000 members in our DMR groups, most of our DMR networks runs under 44net. It does mailing lists with or without all the web GUI front end features. No looking back after leaving Yahoo. We operate several dmr-l lists, somewhat like the old Usenet Newsgroups.
If the principals of this group wish to explore something with favorable terms, I'd be open to dialog. We operate under the *https://dmr.groups.io/g/DMR/subgroups https://dmr.groups.io/g/DMR/subgroups *umbrella.
I also agree that discord is not the best approach.
73,
Mike, NO7RF
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 6:36 PM Steve Williams via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
On 4/21/2022 6:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Many of the venerable Yahoo! lists I subscribe to moved to groups.io when Yahoo! pulled the plug. I've found it works really well, way better than Yahoo! groups, arguably better than Mailman. And the additional features may be useful (database, photos, files, wiki, ...)
Alas, I believe it's not open source. _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
There's a community that I'd like to be more involved with that uses Discourse, but I (personally) find Discourse to be simply too much overhead, so I'm not active in that community.
If I *had* to use Discourse (for a paycheck job), I would / could. But not by choice.
Disclaimer - I'm an old fart and I've been doing email for many decades, and it's my favorite / primary form of electronic communication. Mailing lists are natural and easy for me to participate in virtual communities.
If you're going to use email lists, Groups.io is the way to go. It's not open source, and you can't self-host it. It's a paid service... but it's a very good, very stable / reliable, very capable service.
If I had to start a mailing list now (and I am considering doing so as a companion for my newsletter), I'd pony up the fee to use the paid version.
Thanks for considering Groups.io - I think it would work well for ARDC.
Steve Stroh N8GNJ
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 6:12 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
If you looking for another great product, check out Discord.
Cheers. Adam Lewis KC7GDY
On Apr 21, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Steve Stroh via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
There's a community that I'd like to be more involved with that uses Discourse, but I (personally) find Discourse to be simply too much overhead, so I'm not active in that community.
If I *had* to use Discourse (for a paycheck job), I would / could. But not by choice.
Disclaimer - I'm an old fart and I've been doing email for many decades, and it's my favorite / primary form of electronic communication. Mailing lists are natural and easy for me to participate in virtual communities.
If you're going to use email lists, Groups.io is the way to go. It's not open source, and you can't self-host it. It's a paid service... but it's a very good, very stable / reliable, very capable service.
If I had to start a mailing list now (and I am considering doing so as a companion for my newsletter), I'd pony up the fee to use the paid version.
Thanks for considering Groups.io - I think it would work well for ARDC.
Steve Stroh N8GNJ
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 6:12 PM Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
-- Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - https://zeroretries.substack.com Twitter - @zeroretries / https://twitter.com/zeroretries _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On 22/4/22 12:54 pm, adam--- via 44net wrote:
If you looking for another great product, check out Discord.
While I do use Discord a lot, I think it would be better run alongside a more "long form" of communication. I see Discord better suited to real time communication, while a mailing list is something for more in depth and longer lived conversations.
There's an argument to run both in parallel, because they serve different purposes.
Nice thing about mailing lists, we all end up with our own archives, and it’s all in a standard format that is readily migrated as needed.
Even if it’s hosted on a commercial system, it’s easy to pick up and move if its all in an mbox file or something.
When you get into web-first systems, migration becomes a matter of what the vendor might or might not support for import and export.
I’m in favor of commercial products that “embrace and extend” open standards. Seems like groups.io might fit that bill.
*From:* Tony Langdon via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 8:16:31 PM *To:* 44net@mailman.ampr.org 44net@mailman.ampr.org
*Subject:* [44net] Re: Mailman migration
On 22/4/22 12:54 pm, adam--- via 44net wrote:
If you looking for another great product, check out Discord.
While I do use Discord a lot, I think it would be better run alongside a more "long form" of communication. I see Discord better suited to real time communication, while a mailing list is something for more in depth and longer lived conversations.
There's an argument to run both in parallel, because they serve different purposes.
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor but it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/> Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org> On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote: > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform > password recovery, I get the following message: > > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account" > > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server? > > Jeff Hochberg > W4JEW > Atlanta, GA > jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>wrote: > > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. > The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" > The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") > > Mike / AA8IA > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com mailto:jon@anhold.com > <mailto:jon@anhold.com mailto:jon@anhold.com>> wrote: > > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to > login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a > user when I try to reset my password. > > 73 de KM8V > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: > > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard > to email reputation. > > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC > record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the > list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. > > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org http://themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org> SPF record > > and it appears themailman.ampr.org http://themailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET http://ARDC.NET> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org http://amailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org http://mailman.ampr.org> DKIM key > > Mike / AA8IA > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> wrote: > > Hello All, > > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: > > The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all > the services associated with the mailing list continued > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our > systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden > reboot had corrupted several open files associated with > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net > mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often > goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for > several days. > > Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only > set to a few days and by the time the issue was > investigated all the available backups were of the > corrupted files. > > As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated > the 44net list there. > > I am pleased to report that the archives from the old > server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of > data there thankfully. > > The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found > here: > > https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ > <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>
> > The MX record has been updated to point to thenew > server, so you should continue to send emails to > 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > to post to the list. > > I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for > hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it > has provided excellent service to the community. John is > going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the > 44net mailing list on it’s new home. > > Best 73, > Chris - G1FEF > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to > 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor but it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.orgmailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/
Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org>
Of course when we would consider going to a discussion platform rather than a mailinglist, we should, in honor of our former president, setup an NNTP (usenet) server with closed access and a long retention time. Everyone can use their favorite newsreader, but unfortunately searching article bodies is as problematic as with Mailman.
So indeed a email list with archiving seems a better option. But I would vote for a solution that we can host ourselves instead of a "cloud service". Those may be terminated at any time or the terms&conditions may change. We have our own IP space and hosting facilities so self-hosted solutions should be no problem for us and are part of our core business.
Rob
On 4/22/22 04:51, David Ranch via 44net wrote:
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor but it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
73 Jim KY2D
-----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff,
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.
https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
Rosy
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org http://ampr.org
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
This might sound a little ridiculous, but I started thinking of the days when I was in college back in 1993/1994 and the Internet was just starting to proliferate. We were in a transitional state moving from AOL, CompuServe, AppleLink and more over to shell accounts on Unix systems.
I remember using mailx and Elm (predecessor to Pine) for email. Having to wait for a workstation to free up so I could go in and start banging on the keyboard.
I like the idea of NNTP via shell (or whatever NNTP client one feels comfortable with and IRC for real-time chat.
It may not be practical for our needs necessary, but it sure sounds like a great nostalgic experience!
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 3:43 AM Rob PE1CHL via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
Of course when we would consider going to a discussion platform rather than a mailinglist, we should, in honor of our former president, setup an NNTP (usenet) server with closed access and a long retention time. Everyone can use their favorite newsreader, but unfortunately searching article bodies is as problematic as with Mailman.
So indeed a email list with archiving seems a better option. But I would vote for a solution that we can host ourselves instead of a "cloud service". Those may be terminated at any time or the terms&conditions may change. We have our own IP space and hosting facilities so self-hosted solutions should be no problem for us and are part of our core business.
Rob
On 4/22/22 04:51, David Ranch via 44net wrote:
I would vote for a migration to a groups.io email list compared to say Discourse, MattersMost, Slack, etc. Why? Searching the archives. No doubt, AMPR's stock Mailman's searching functionality is/was very poor but it could be made better. If AMPR wants to move the email lists to groups.io, that system has some pretty decent search abilities.
--David KI6ZHD
On 04/21/2022 06:12 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>44net@mailman.ampr.org Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/>Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org> <http://ampr.org>
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
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Hi Rosy
groups.io is the obvious choice here.
Ticks the boxes of: - simple, modern, widely adopted and not just by hams - doesn’t need someone to maintain some server - keeps the format of email - also has a good web UI - free/cheap
Best regards Tom
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 02:12, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/> Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org> On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote: > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform > password recovery, I get the following message: > > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account" > > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server? > > Jeff Hochberg > W4JEW > Atlanta, GA > jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>wrote:
> > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in tomailman.
> The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a validuser ("
> The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") > > Mike / AA8IA > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> > <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com>>> wrote: > > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I amunable to
> login via the web interface to change it - it says I amnot a
> user when I try to reset my password. > > 73 de KM8V > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>>wrote:
> > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard > to email reputation. > > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a publishedDMARC
> record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. Sothe
> list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. > > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record > > and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key > > Mike / AA8IA > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>>> wrote: > > Hello All, > > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: > > The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok andall
> the services associated with the mailing list continued > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our > systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden > reboot had corrupted several open files associated with > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the44net
> mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often > goes through quiet periods this was not noticedfor
> several days. > > Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only > set to a few days and by the time the issue was > investigated all the available backups were of the > corrupted files. > > As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated > the 44net list there. > > I am pleased to report that the archives from theold
> server were successfully migrated over, so noloss of
> data there thankfully. > > The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found > here: > >https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
<https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/%3E
> <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
> > The MX record has been updated to point to the new > server, so you should continue to send emails to > 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > to post to the list. > > I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for > hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it > has provided excellent service to the community. John is > going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the > 44net mailing list on it’s new home. > > Best 73, > Chris - G1FEF > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to > 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org>> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>> > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
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Rosy, All,
I fully agree with Tom’s assessment.
Jack Spitznagel – KD4IZ
Associate Editor – AMSAT News Service
AMSAT Ambassador
kd4iz@arrl.net
From: Tom M0LTE via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 03:50 To: 44Net general discussion 44net@mailman.ampr.org; Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV rosy@ardc.net Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration
Hi Rosy
groups.io http://groups.io is the obvious choice here.
Ticks the boxes of:
- simple, modern, widely adopted and not just by hams
- doesn’t need someone to maintain some server
- keeps the format of email
- also has a good web UI
- free/cheap
Best regards
Tom
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 02:12, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org > wrote:
Thanks for the discussion, folks.
Have people enjoyed groups.io http://groups.io better?
Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org http://ampr.org
On 4/21/22 6:08 PM, Damien Gardner via 44net wrote:
Yeah I'm just adding my vote for please god, do NOT move to discourse. SAGE-AU moved to discourse a couple of years ago, and it killed the organisation. As it turned out, like 90% of the members REALLY like email, and had absolutely no interest in moving their conversations to a web message board. As much as discourse likes to say it supports email, it really doesn't do a good job of it, and with members cracking the shits and leaving, SAGE-AU went broke last year, and now we don't have a peak body for IT Professionals in Australia.
--DG
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 11:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org >> wrote:
Hi, Here's just one vote *NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox. 73 Jim KY2D -----Original Message----- From: Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 20:53 To: 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > Subject: [44net] Re: Mailman migration Hey Jeff, Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. https://www.discourse.org/ <https://www.discourse.org/> Curious if folks haved used it and like it. Rosy Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV Executive Director Amateur Radio Digital Communications (ARDC) ampr.org <http://ampr.org> <http://ampr.org> On 4/21/22 5:44 PM, Jeff Hochberg via 44net wrote: > Evidently, some of the configurations were transferred over, but not the > user database. I'm unable to authenticate and, even if I try to perform > password recovery, I get the following message: > > "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account" > > Not for anything but why not just switch to something like Google Groups > or Groups.io instead of having someone host a Mailman server? > > Jeff Hochberg > W4JEW > Atlanta, GA > jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> > <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com <mailto:jeff@w4jew.com> >> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 11:03 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>> wrote: > > I too have the same issue with regard to logging in to mailman. > The password reset claims my Gmail address is not a valid user (" > The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account ") > > Mike / AA8IA > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM Jon Anhold <jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> > > <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> <mailto:jon@anhold.com <mailto:jon@anhold.com> >>> wrote: > > Looks like this lost my digest preference, and I am unable to > login via the web interface to change it - it says I am not a > user when I try to reset my password. > > 73 de KM8V > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:51 AM Mike Tindor via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>> wrote: > > Looks like there might be a little more to do, with regard > to email reputation. > > SPF and DKIM signing fail, and there is a published DMARC > record that quarantines 100% of DMARC failures. So the > list emails are going to end up in spam folders (they ended > up in my Gmail spam folder) because SPF/DKIM/DMARC all failed. > > 2a0a:bb00:0:44::1d needs added to themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> SPF record > > and it appears themailman.ampr.org <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://themailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> emails are being signed with anARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET <http://ARDC.NET>> DKIM key rather than amailman.ampr.org <http://amailman.ampr.org> <http://amailman.ampr.org> <http://mailman.ampr.org <http://mailman.ampr.org>> DKIM key > > Mike / AA8IA > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net > <44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >>> wrote: > > Hello All, > > FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: > > The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an > unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all > the services associated with the mailing list continued > to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our > systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden > reboot had corrupted several open files associated with > the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net > mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often > goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for > several days. > > Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only > set to a few days and by the time the issue was > investigated all the available backups were of the > corrupted files. > > As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the > older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest > Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the > mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman > 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated > the 44net list there. > > I am pleased to report that the archives from the old > server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of > data there thankfully. > > The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found > here: > > https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/> > <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ <https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/>> > > The MX record has been updated to point to the new > server, so you should continue to send emails to > 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >> > to post to the list. > > I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for > hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash > in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it > has provided excellent service to the community. John is > going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the > 44net mailing list on it’s new home. > > Best 73, > Chris - G1FEF > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to > 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> >> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> >> > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > > <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > > <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> > _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org> >
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I agree with this, and would suggest that email is the best primary channel for this kind of communication.
Moving to a model that requires users to remember to check a Discourse page I expect would lead to a drop-off in timely responses and the value of the list. Currently it is interesting to follow along the conversations that can spring forth on this list, and have the option to interact with them as they occur, if I only look at my inbox frequently enough.
It is likely given the aforementioned "quiet periods" on the list that a change in delivery from 'push' to 'pull' for end-users would lead to a drop-off in engagement, particularly in a real-time sense.
I have used groups.io for other amateur radio related groups, and it works well there. I am not sure if there is a formal position from ARDC on the use of paid internet services vs open-source self-hosted software in the public-facing administration of the foundation, but given the spirit of amateur radio and the kinds of services which are typically provided within the 44/8 network, it would go against the grain to choose a such an option, though I acknowledge the obvious appeal in administration.
On 22/4/22 12:20 pm, Joel VK3LE via 44net wrote:
I agree with this, and would suggest that email is the best primary channel for this kind of communication.
Moving to a model that requires users to remember to check a Discourse page I expect would lead to a drop-off in timely responses and the value of the list. Currently it is interesting to follow along the conversations that can spring forth on this list, and have the option to interact with them as they occur, if I only look at my inbox frequently enough.
Being suspected ADHD, I'm very prone to "login fatigue" from checking too many different services, and low volume ones are the first to fall off the list. I also find web navigation slow and fiddly, another thing that goes against my nature. Email is good, because the login is already done, and I can catch up on posts when I'm going through emai. Other communities have lost my involvement when they switched to web forums (xlxd being a ham example of this issue).
Le 22/04/2022 à 03:03, Jim Kutsch KY2D via 44net a écrit :
Here's just one vote*NOT* to use Discourse. It's a discussion system, not email. So we have to go there to see if anything is new rather than just having info come in our inbox. For me (YMMMV) I find it like having an inconvenient PO Box that you have to intentionally go visit to see if anything is there vs. mail being delivered to my home mailbox.
+1. Web forums are terribly time-consuming ! I subscribed to some tenths of mailing lists. All the messages arrive in the corresponding sub-folder in my inbox, and I can browse them freely during my (often very short) periods of free time. I can't afford (and I won't) connect to some tenths of web forums just to see if someone answered, or simply, see what's new.
Mailing-lists are simple and efficient systems. Please keep them !
Some systems such as groups.io allow "mixed" usage (mailing-list and web access), so that anybody can use his favorite "client" system, while the message base is common.
-- Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network. Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal" services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
And if we need something more "modern", such as a instant messaging / groupware / social network, we should also look at free software. Some solutions allow the deployment of decentralized and self-hosted servers, which is a perfect solution for 44net networks. Some people are already operating Mastodon or Matrix servers on 44net. Why not adopting a common scheme, deploying and inter-connecting servers in several regions, and start using them ? :-)
73 de TK1BI
-- Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network. Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal" services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed, fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks. Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems. The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop without it going to my spam box". As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it. Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
And if we need something more "modern", such as a instant messaging / groupware / social network, we should also look at free software. Some solutions allow the deployment of decentralized and self-hosted servers, which is a perfect solution for 44net networks. Some people are already operating Mastodon or Matrix servers on 44net. Why not adopting a common scheme, deploying and inter-connecting servers in several regions, and start using them ? :-)
That requires some one to stop doing HAM stuff and duplicate effort.
73 de TK1BI _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
Dave G4UGM
On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
-- Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network. Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal" services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed, fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks. Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems. The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop without it going to my spam box". As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it. Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
Is that a concern with the existing mailing list? My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and it had to be recovered. And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it somewhere else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.
I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core business and we should not outsource it. From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external service that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource software that you can host yourself. The latter could be an option to use.
But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution and that others do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net. When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how we provide "emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.
Rob
Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are very clear distinctions between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the many other services that make up what we consider to be the internet today?
All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill, resources, hardware and service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc) offer network services, they are an NSP, the people that would for the organisation and provide the service, although may well be inclined and skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such they felt the best thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a core-competency in mailing list management.
It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the 44net service and if the person that volunteered their time, resources and effort into maintaining a now defunct mail-server now decides he no longer wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that what is considered an incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with a provider who offer those services.
I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that the callsign comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders to almost 'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be free indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not so much)... If you feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that someone volunteer their time, resources and effort in to hosting a mailman service.... you do it!
I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH or on one of the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is protected and secure, isn't succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the service has a reasonable level of availability and it's usage conforms to the many regulartory domains that exist across the world... Doing to for free, doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the opportunity to raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to read the above first.
Thats my 2-pence... ;)
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 10:40, Rob PE1CHL via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
-- Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network. Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use
"internal"
services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution,
but route to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed, fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks.
Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the
many problems they face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems.
The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam
levels, but most users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop without it going to my spam box".
As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it. Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would
work on the 44 net but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
Is that a concern with the existing mailing list? My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and it had to be recovered. And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it somewhere else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.
I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core business and we should not outsource it. From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external service that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource software that you can host yourself. The latter could be an option to use.
But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution and that others do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net. When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how we provide "emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.
Rob
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
I don't think the current maintainer is doing it for free. And I think that should not matter. We have a mission to create a network for amateur radio purposes. When we think that we cannot host services because of stupid liability issues or because it would cost us time, we better stop doing it and pass the buck to the Googles, Microsofts and Facebooks of the world.
I think it is ridiculous that we would even CONSIDER these kinds of things in an amateur radio network.
And w.r.t. me doing things for the network, you probably are not aware of how much effort I spend on it all for free.
Rob
On 4/24/22 12:02, Mark Stevenson via 44net wrote:
Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are very clear distinctions between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the many other services that make up what we consider to be the internet today?
All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill, resources, hardware and service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc) offer network services, they are an NSP, the people that would for the organisation and provide the service, although may well be inclined and skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such they felt the best thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a core-competency in mailing list management.
It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the 44net service and if the person that volunteered their time, resources and effort into maintaining a now defunct mail-server now decides he no longer wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that what is considered an incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with a provider who offer those services.
I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that the callsign comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders to almost 'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be free indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not so much)... If you feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that someone volunteer their time, resources and effort in to hosting a mailman service.... you do it!
I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH or on one of the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is protected and secure, isn't succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the service has a reasonable level of availability and it's usage conforms to the many regulartory domains that exist across the world... Doing to for free, doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the opportunity to raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to read the above first.
Thats my 2-pence... ;)
I have witnessed devastating ransomware attacks. When you are working with data and in a world where your infrastructure is the target of organised crime from just about any crevice in the world, liability is absolutely a reason why anyone should consider what services they offer, the impact those services has and if a bad actor was to take over those services, exactly what the impact would be for both the service provider and its end-users.
A backup protects the service providers ability to continue to provide the services, it doesn't really close the loophole that allowed access in the first place. What it doesn't protect is the contact details of each and every person in that list, names, e-mail addresses and a credible source are enough to instigate a phishing campaign from a trusted source and trust me when I say this, people are more than happy to divulge their credentials to a web page they obtained by clicking a link in a trusted e-mail. User-error is partly to blame in most of these cases, but the service-providers reputational damage almost irrecoverable (because blaming the IT guy is always easier).
As for your network contributions... good for you... we wouldn't do things for free unless we felt good about it (no such thing as a selfless act after all)... my comment was specifically around this topic. I think we are all here because we want to contribute something but in the glaring absence of an actual credible, alternative solution to the current problem of a lack of mail-distribution platform and when weighted against some probable outcomes, outsourcing makes sense.
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 11:24, Rob PE1CHL via 44net 44net@mailman.ampr.org wrote:
I don't think the current maintainer is doing it for free. And I think that should not matter. We have a mission to create a network for amateur radio purposes. When we think that we cannot host services because of stupid liability issues or because it would cost us time, we better stop doing it and pass the buck to the Googles, Microsofts and Facebooks of the world.
I think it is ridiculous that we would even CONSIDER these kinds of things in an amateur radio network.
And w.r.t. me doing things for the network, you probably are not aware of how much effort I spend on it all for free.
Rob
On 4/24/22 12:02, Mark Stevenson via 44net wrote:
Rob... I'm sure you are aware that there are very clear distinctions
between offering network, email, web, voip, ntp and the many other services that make up what we consider to be the internet today?
All these parts are put together with varying levels of skill,
resources, hardware and service-specific expertise. 44net (AMPR, ARDC etc) offer network services, they are an NSP, the people that would for the organisation and provide the service, although may well be inclined and skilled in such a way to rebuild a mail server, they are not mail-service providers. The mailing list is ancillary to their core-service, as such they felt the best thing to do now is perhaps find a provider, that has a core-competency in mailing list management.
It is for the users of 44net to make-up the services that reside on the
44net service and if the person that volunteered their time, resources and effort into maintaining a now defunct mail-server now decides he no longer wishes to do so, it makes perfect sense that what is considered an incredibly well-used resource is hosted elsewhere, where any of the previous oversights, such as backups, will be maintained under an SLA with a provider who offer those services.
I've worked with the amateur radio community long enough to know that
the callsign comes with a sense of 'entitlement' that empowers its holders to almost 'demand' the free services they are using not only continue to be free indefinately (doable) but also in such a way that appeases them (not so much)... If you feel so strongly that in the spirit of ham radio that someone volunteer their time, resources and effort in to hosting a mailman service.... you do it!
I'm an IT professional, I could host the service quite easily at my QTH
or on one of the VPS I have, but I have to ensure that user data is protected and secure, isn't succumbed to cyber-offenses and that the service has a reasonable level of availability and it's usage conforms to the many regulartory domains that exist across the world... Doing to for free, doesn't negate liability by the way ;) So, I passed on the opportunity to raise my hand... and anyone else considering it needs to read the above first.
Thats my 2-pence... ;)
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
+1
On 2022-04-24 05:39, Rob PE1CHL via 44net wrote:
On 4/24/22 11:26, dave.g4ugm--- via 44net wrote:
-- Moreover, we are HAM radio operators managing a dedicated IP network. Why should we use external/commercial solutions for our internal communications ? My opinion is that, when possible, we should, use "internal" services, based on free software, and self-hosted on 44net servers.
The issue here is that if we continue to use a locally hosted solution, but route to our "normal" e-mail address we will probably find ourselves black listed, fighting spam filters and trying to manage SPF DKIM and DMARC frameworks. Any one who follows the groups.io managers lists will be aware of the many problems they face, but they have a central team that helps sort out the problems. The real issue is that many mail providers want to advertise low spam levels, but most users never as the million dollar question, "how much legitimate e-mail do you drop without it going to my spam box". As such e-mail is simply discarded the users know nothing about it. Of course we could also set up our own mail system as well that would work on the 44 net but are we really about duplicating existing infrastructure?
Is that a concern with the existing mailing list? My understanding is that a server crashed, there were no good backups, and it had to be recovered. And now we suddenly find ourselves in a discussion about "hosting it somewhere else", "maling list providers find themselves in trouble", etc.
I agree with Toussaint that providing network services is our core business and we should not outsource it. From earlier messages I understand that "groups.io" is both an external service that can handle all your needs, and a provider of opensource software that you can host yourself. The latter could be an option to use.
But I think when we have to declare that we cannot host our own solution and that others do it so much better, the time has come to dismantle 44Net. When we cannot even host a mailinglist, no need to boast anymore about how we provide "emergency communications" as HAMs, and other unique services.
Rob
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
On 4/21/2022 5:53 PM, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
... we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse. Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
I've used Discourse, and I really like it! And that's saying a lot, because I detest all other web-based forum software I've used.
I've always preferred to use my familiar email client for all of my email list activity. Not until I joined a paid community that uses Discourse did I find I enjoyed using a web tool to compose messages, read messages, and stay up to date with a community.
Discourse has spotty RSS support. I hope they'll improve that.
I love Mailman and pay MailmanLists.net to host many Mailman lists, and I've self-hosted Mailman 2 in the past. But Mailman 2 has real limitations and, while I've never tried to self-host or administer Mailman 3, it appears it's more complex. I'm tempted to move my Mailman lists to Discourse!
Here's more info on the paid community I mentioned:
https://creativegood.com/blog/21/announcing-creative-good-community.html
On Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Rosy Schechter - KJ7RYV via 44net wrote:
Great question. As it turns out, we are in fact looking to switch to Discourse.
Curious if folks haved used it and like it.
In my opinion, mailman is the best option for this forum.
-- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Architect, Systems Mangler, & Network Mismanager
I'm a newcomer to the project and the list, still working on getting some time to actually get my endpoint up and running -- so I don't have a lot of history on this.
I think discourse is a great piece of software if you're looking to host a web discussion forum, but that's not always the best way to manage communication, and the feedback so far seems like people prefer email for this particular group. From what I've seen, that makes sense to me.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based". Anything
you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or another.
I think the sentiment that people are expressing isn't about where the infrastructure lives, but more about using the walled gardens that are SaaS products. There are legitimate concerns here. A paid service can change the rules at any time. They can, and often do, treat you like a product, selling information about you to other organizations for their benefit, and not really for yours. They can decide to just close their doors, or terminate the product and give you nothing. Not wanting to be subject to this is not unreasonable.
I am in multiple groups.io lists. I don't love it, but it's not the worst thing ever -- aside from the above concerns that come with any hosted solution of that sort.
If I do get any veto influence I would use it on any suggestion of using discord. I abhor discord for all of the above reasons, plus their abominable terms of service which, among other things, bar you from using any other client but theirs. (It's technically feasible, but if they discover it they ban you.) No bridges, no unified clients, nothing. They are the worst and I hate that they've gotten so much traction despite being such a garbage organization.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net < 44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All,
FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week:
The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days.
Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files.
As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there.
I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully.
The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here:
https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/
The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org to post to the list.
I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home.
Best 73, Chris - G1FEF
44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org
I thought Mark's message brought up several points about *any* 3rd party hosted (aka SaaS) offering and we as a community will be at their mercy.
I realize that John KI5Dmight not want to continue administrate a future solution but is the group also considering running a *replacement* email list service that ADRC owns/operates? The ARDC clearly has the money to pay for some level of hosting service, maybe including full admin services and maintenance, the volume of email is not large, and across all the brilliant minds and experience here on the email list, I'm sure a fairly featureful replacement solution should be possible.
--David KI6ZHD
On 04/22/2022 08:35 AM, Mark Bainter via 44net wrote:
I'm a newcomer to the project and the list, still working on getting some time to actually get my endpoint up and running -- so I don't have a lot of history on this.
I think discourse is a great piece of software if you're looking to host a web discussion forum, but that's not always the best way to manage communication, and the feedback so far seems like people prefer email for this particular group. From what I've seen, that makes sense to me.
A few have said they don't want anything that is "cloud based".
Anything you get from the internet is "cloud based" one way or another.
I think the sentiment that people are expressing isn't about where the infrastructure lives, but more about using the walled gardens that are SaaS products. There are legitimate concerns here. A paid service can change the rules at any time. They can, and often do, treat you like a product, selling information about you to other organizations for their benefit, and not really for yours. They can decide to just close their doors, or terminate the product and give you nothing. Not wanting to be subject to this is not unreasonable.
I am in multiple groups.io http://groups.io lists. I don't love it, but it's not the worst thing ever -- aside from the above concerns that come with any hosted solution of that sort.
If I do get any veto influence I would use it on any suggestion of using discord. I abhor discord for all of the above reasons, plus their abominable terms of service which, among other things, bar you from using any other client but theirs. (It's technically feasible, but if they discover it they ban you.) No bridges, no unified clients, nothing. They are the worst and I hate that they've gotten so much traction despite being such a garbage organization.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:07 AM Chris Smith via 44net <44net@mailman.ampr.org mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> wrote:
Hello All, FYI, we had an issue with the mailing list server last week: The server the mailing list is hosted on experienced an unexpected reboot. The server came back up ok and all the services associated with the mailing list continued to run, so Nagios (the application we use to monitor our systems) did not report any issues. However, the sudden reboot had corrupted several open files associated with the mailing list software (Mailman 2.1) and the 44net mailing list was not passing emails. As the list often goes through quiet periods this was not noticed for several days. Unfortunately the backup period for the server was only set to a few days and by the time the issue was investigated all the available backups were of the corrupted files. As the longer term plan was always to migrate from the older (now unsupported) Mailman 2.1 to the latest Mailman 3.1 the decision was taken to migrate the mailing list to a new server. ARDC already has a Mailman 3 server for some internal mailing lists, so we migrated the 44net list there. I am pleased to report that the archives from the old server were successfully migrated over, so no loss of data there thankfully. The web interface for the new home of 44net can be found here: https://mailman.ardc.net/mailman3/postorius/lists/44net.mailman.ampr.org/ The MX record has been updated to point to the new server, so you should continue to send emails to 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> to post to the list. I want to take this opportunity to thank John - KI5D for hosting the mailing list since we had the last big crash in 2012. The mailman server, with John looking after it has provided excellent service to the community. John is going to continue to help out by acting as admin for the 44net mailing list on it’s new home. Best 73, Chris - G1FEF _______________________________________________ 44net mailing list -- 44net@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net@mailman.ampr.org> To unsubscribe send an email to 44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org <mailto:44net-leave@mailman.ampr.org>
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